I no longer believe in Aryan Migration Theory

[RongzomFan]

For the record, I always thought the rationale for AMT was weak. Every scholar knows that actually.

 

So apparently the big 2009 Harvard / Nature genetics study actually disproves the Aryan Migration Theory. This is not very clear when reading the paper itself, however, one of the authors of the paper states:

 

 

"Our paper basically discards Aryan theory. What we have discussed in our paper is pre-historic events. Data included in this study are not sufficient to estimate the time of ANI settlement. However, our earlier studies using mtDNA and Y-chromosome marker, suggests that the ANI are approximately forty-thousand year old. We predicted that the ASI are part of Andamanese migration, therefore they could be about sixty-thousand years old. Our study shows that the Indian populations are genetically structured, suggesting that they practice endogamy for thousands of years. Every population is genetically unique, but we cannot assign genetic information to differentiate whether he/she belongs to higher/lower caste. As one is aware, Jati/ caste has been introduced very recently."

Edited June 12, 2013 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

If there is no Aryan migration, India is the source of western civilization.

[RongzomFan]

And of course we already knew that caste is a British construction, for example refer to Columbia dean Nicholas Dirks’ Caste of Mind (Princeton University Press).

[voidisyinyang]

 

Have you seen this? Looks worth watching.

[xor]

I never believed in the Aryan migration theory, it always sounded wrong in my ears.

[xor]

 

Have you seen this? Looks worth watching.

Going to watch this, looks interesting.

[Apech]

If there is no Aryan migration, India is the source of western civilization.

 

 

Could you elaborate a little why this might be so.

[Apech]

And of course we already knew that caste is a British construction, for example refer to Columbia dean Nicholas Dirks’ Caste of Mind (Princeton University Press).

 

 

Caste is a Portuguese word and their settlement in Goa the source for this term not British ... though they may have taken it up of course.

[RongzomFan]

Could you elaborate a little why this might be so.

 

If there is no Aryan migration, India is itself the source of Indo-European language / culture / religion.

[Jainarayan]

This was outstanding!

[Jainarayan]

If there is no Aryan migration, India is itself the source of Indo-European language / culture / religion.

 

No, Dr. Kazanas explains this in detail with a map:

 

1. PIE (Proto-Indo-European) language and culture did not originate around the Black Sea as commonly accepted, but rather in the Bactrian area of central Asia. From there it spread west into Europe and northwest Eurasia.

 

2. A small group of travelers easily moved south into the Indus and Saraswati valleys and became the Vedic civilization, which is extremely ancient and created the Rigveda around 4000 BCE. The Rigveda has no mention of anything found in the Harappan civilization, such as urbanization. Rigvedic cultural was pastoral and older than the Harappan civilization, which I think grew out of the Vedic peoples.

 

3. From there, that group spread out east and west, to the Gangetic Plain, and to the Iranian Plateau, for several reasons, climate change being one. That means that Vedic Sanskrit is older, not co-eval with Iranian, and is older than the Harappan civilization. So this partially supports the Out of India Theory, which should probably be called the Out of Indus Valley Theory. The Harappans may have spoken ancient Sanskrit, but it wasn't written. He starts to give an explanation at about 1:23. By extrapolation one can support the idea of indigenous Indians.

[RongzomFan]

No, Dr. Kazanas explains this in detail with a map:

 

I do not care about the youtube video. I did not post the youtube video.

 

The youtube video is a new twist on the Aryan Migration Theory.

 

He is merely making it much, much earlier. Earlier than even the Indus Valley Civilization.

Edited July 23, 2013 by alwayson

[Jainarayan]

I'm inclined to see it as a migration also and have always done so, but not a mass migration. Rather, a slow trickle or relocation, as most of the spread of the PIE peoples were. This especially considering that there's been no major influx of newer genetics into south Asia in > 10,000 years, actually closer to 40,000 years. That's the clincher. We tend to think of migrations coming in waves, not unlike the immigrations to the US in the early 1900s. Remember, the timescale he is talking about is on the order of millennia, not years or decades.

[Apech]

If there is no Aryan migration, India is itself the source of Indo-European language / culture / religion.

 

 

Thanks I've watched the video now ... very interesting indeed.

[ChiForce]

Hahaah...why it even matters.... So you can say Indian are actually European? Or India is the father of the so-called Western Civilization? Or Rome or Goths or the Franks? Or the Norman? You should know by now that such a silly theory is only good for the senses, which is fundamentally empty. In the overall scheme of things (current politics, economic and cultural developments, and etc), it has no impacts because each nation must work towards its progress in these fields.

 

Yes, I know in parts of India people worship the Führer because he talked about the Aryan race and loved the Swastika. You know, if you were in the Third Reich period in Germany as an Indian, you would probably get deported (that's actually the best that could happen to you).

[RongzomFan]

Hahaah...why it even matters....

 

If it doesn't matter, how come the Aryan Migration Theory is in every recent history book?

 

Obviously historians think this shit is important.

Edited June 26, 2013 by alwayson

[xor]

Indo-European culture/language have a common source, isn't that enough?

[ChiForce]

If it doesn't matter, how come the Aryan Migration Theory is in every modern history book on India?

The question is that how does this knowledge affect you and your country and for what purposes........

[RongzomFan]

The question is that how does this knowledge affect you and your country and for what purposes........

 

I'm not going to indulge in your straw man arguments and logical fallacies.

 

If you are not interested in history, move on from this thread.

[ChiForce]

Indo-European culture/language have a common source, isn't that enough?

Enough for what??? To put it very, very bluntly, India is way behind China in military, economic, and cultural powers. If India is way behind China, the country is surely not even close to the Western standards. Again, enough for what? For the senses perhaps. The feel good factors but completely ignoring the reality.

[RongzomFan]

Indo-European culture/language have a common source, isn't that enough?

 

Not for historians

 

http://www.amazon.com/India-A-History-Revised-Updated/dp/0802145582

 

http://www.amazon.com/A-History-India-Hermann-Kulke/dp/0415485436/

[ChiForce]

I'm not going to indulge in your straw man arguments and logical fallacies.

 

If you are not interested in history, move on from this thread.

I don't indulge myself in one tiny aspect of history because a certain factual theory serves my senses....

[RongzomFan]

Enough for what??? To put it very, very bluntly, India is way behind China in military, economic, and cultural powers. If India is way behind China, the country is surely not even close to the Western standards. Again, enough for what? For the senses perhaps. The feel good factors but completely ignoring the reality.

 

that's ridiculous. more hating on India as usual.

[RongzomFan]

I don't indulge myself in one tiny aspect of history because a certain factual theory serves my senses....

 

You are putting more weight on this stuff than me.

[ChiForce]

that's ridiculous. more hating on India as usual.

Ridiculous??? Hahahah...you love that word. FYI, I follow international politics very, very closely, especially the recent NSA scandals. Keep your propaganda to yourself....