Qigong vs t'ai chi ch'uan for someone as flexible as an iron bar?

[Jainarayan]

In Dec. 2010 I had 3 lumbar micro-discectomies. I've always been inflexible, with tight hamstrings, glutes (no jokes about being a tight---, I get that enough ) and hips. Knees don't go anywhere near the floor. It probably comes from years of weight lifting and not stretching. I can't sit on the floor cross-legged for more than 15, 20 mins. at the most without my feet going numb and tingly. It's a particular problem in temple when I've been sitting too long, and now it's time to stand up... I've almost fallen.

 

A stretch I was given to do (but of course, I don't) is to sit on a chair, one leg crossed over the other, then lean forward and feel the stretch in the glute and hip, then reverse for the other side. Ultimately I'm supposed to touch my knee with my nose. Yeah OK, as if! Btw, I sit at a desk all day, but I have a box underneath that I put my feet up on to try to keep my legs stretched.

 

I've asked elsewhere about learning t'ai chi ch'uan but was told it's really not possible to learn on your own. There are no studios in my area that I can find. So when all is said and done, getting that background out of the way, does anyone have a recommendation for alleviating all this, and whether qigong or t'ai chi ch'uan is the better option, and how to go about learning?

 

 

[adept]

You've come to the right place to ask such questions !

If you sit at a desk all day, you need some movement and standing practices to balance it all out.

For a complete beginner I would recommend 8 Brocades, Walking Meditation, Yin Yoga and Zhan Zhuang.

Google them.

Use the search facility on this site. These practices have been discussed to death.

You'll get many different ideas and opinions here.

Do LOTS of research and make up your mind about which practices speak to you, fit around your life, and interest you.

Good luck.

[Jainarayan]

Thanks... that's the kind of info I need... where and how to start researching and learning, what will work for me and what may not.

[ChiDragon]

If you ran out of resources, try this to exercise your body holistically but slowly.

[Jainarayan]

I also found these, which I like, and can certainly do...

 

http://taoism.about.com/od/meditation/ht/walking.htm yep, this is kinhin in Zen. I always wanted to try it. This would be a great practice doing circumambulations in temple, walking the perimeter of the temple around the sanctums and shrines of the deities. I'm not one for sitting meditation unless I'm at a park, the boardwalk or strangely, the mall. I can lose myself in thought in a crowd.

 

 

I see there's a video for Yin Yoga www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew9KuRkTt_Y‎ but now streaming vids are blocked at work.

 

Zhan Zhuang sounds right up my alley too because I hate traditional cardio, and I'm beginning to tire of weight training, but I want to stay conditioned. I was a powerlifter, but now I just want a more athletic and fit physique. Ironically (no pun intended) my back surgery and rotator cuff surgery had nothing to do with weight lifting. My back was from snow shoveling, and my shoulder was a very old condition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RiverSnake]

I practice Surya Namaskar for 15 minutes every morning (2-4 repetitions) and I also do hip stretches. It has done wonders for my flexibility. I highly recommend, qigong and Tai Chi are not necessarily specifically built for created flexibility like Hatha Yoga is.

 

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Jainarayan]

Speaking of zhan zhuang, this story may or may not be funny depending on how twisted your sense of humor is. I didn't think it was funny at the time, but now "meh, it is what it is... go with the flow".

 

I was sitting in temple one night. Not only am I inflexible, as this thread points out, I am very sensitive to heat and humidity and can't tolerate it. Even in winter, as long as there is no wind, I can go out in shorts and a t shirt.

I realized that when I sit on the floor, with my muscles tensed from the inflexibility, though I try to relax, it's like a hatha yoga session. When I've done hatha yoga, being inflexible, the muscles are really working against themselves (isometrics). What happens when muscles work hard? They generate heat. What happens when I heat up? I sweat like an ox plowing the lower 40. I was drenched, with it mostly running down my neck, forehead and the sides of my head (I'm shaved bald). This was during the 30 minute Sri Vishnu Sahasranama Parayanam (chanting 1,000 names of Vishnu). I know it was noticeable.

HI was totally mortified at sweating so profusely. I had to get up and walk around, doing a circumambulation around the perimeter of the temple sanctums. I did three circumambulations; by the time I finished the first one, I was cooled down and stopped sweating. I am also kind of sore and stiff the day after attending temple, I suppose from these "isometrics".

 

So if that experience is anything like what I'll get with zhan zhuang and/or baduanjin qigong... I am sooo there! I'm also trying to find a hatha yoga studio that has a schedule and fees I can work with.

[Jainarayan]

I practice Surya Namaskar for 15 minutes every morning (2-4 repetitions) and I also do hip stretches. It has done wonders for my flexibility. I highly recommend, qigong and Tai Chi are not necessarily specifically built for created flexibility like Hatha Yoga is.

 

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

Thanks.

 

My altar is placed so that I face east when I'm there. If I got into the routine and habit, I'd like to do the Surya Namaskar too. I would chant the mantras while doing the āsanas, making it all part of the morning puja.

[hydrogen]

Thanks.

 

My altar is placed so that I face east when I'm there. If I got into the routine and habit, I'd like to do the Surya Namaskar too. I would chant the mantras while doing the āsanas, making it all part of the morning puja.

 

good plan.

 

Shaking is very useful too.

 

Breathing is important. It seems to soften the tendon when you get Qi going. If not, try to use a TENS unit for half hour, then do the stretch.

[Jainarayan]

Thanks. Now I just have to do it. Yes, it's true that people tend not to breathe properly (I know from experience). I think doing the āsanas as best I can... small steps... will be a beginning in stretching, becoming more flexible and fit... fit in a different way.

 

Btw, how do you mean shaking? I may have missed something, being a little slow on the uptake at times.

[hydrogen]

Thanks. Now I just have to do it. Yes, it's true that people tend not to breathe properly (I know from experience). I think doing the āsanas as best I can... small steps... will be a beginning in stretching, becoming more flexible and fit... fit in a different way.

 

Btw, how do you mean shaking? I may have missed something, being a little slow on the uptake at times.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrr8yMGCVDc

I like to hear her moaning

 

After shaking, stand still, close your eyes, feel. This is kind of zhan zhuang.

 

Do a search here. There are some good shaking meditation tips on this forum.

Edited June 13, 2013 by hydrogen

[Jainarayan]

This is great! Lots to work with and look for. Thanks.

[h.uriahr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nui5_SYCpDo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrr8yMGCVDc

I like to hear her moaning

 

After shaking, stand still, close your eyes, feel. This is kind of zhan zhuang.

 

Do a search here. There are some good shaking meditation tips on this forum.

 

I don't find her particularly attractive but her moaning did make my pants a bit tight...I think that move is called Oak Stretching to Heaven.

[Jainarayan]

As luck would have it, or rather, maybe things played out as they should, I found a fitness studio that offers yoga and tai chi. I haven't taken the classes yet, but I will this week. I visited the studio yesterday. The yoga and tai chi instructors are supposed to be top of the line. The reason I said maybe things played out as they should is that it goes back to comments I made about not really wanting to have seen my family this past weekend. As it turns out, we did have a good time (I stopped jokes about my "quirks" dead in their tracks, especially about my "worshipping cows"). Had I not gone, I would not have found out about the studio. My niece, her husband, and their two kids go there for the aquatics classes. My nephew-in-law is the one who recommended it as we talked about the subject and my interest in starting tai chi, qigong and/or yoga.

[Jainarayan]

I had my first tai chi class this morning. The instructor is Mongolian, 67 years old. He said the style is Wu, but I don't know the difference between these two articles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu-style_t'ai_chi_ch'uan and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(Hao)-style_t%27ai_chi_ch%27uan unless I am missing something obvious. This is probably of no consequence, except that I like to understand and "own" a subject.

 

Regardless, the class was fun. The instructor is very genial, patient and friendly. He was actually enjoying coaching us newbies. Not only am I inflexible (for now) I'm about as graceful as an ox. I was soaking wet and already beginning to feel sore. I'm going to try to remember some of the movements and practice during the week. I don't know if that's a good idea. I won't have a coach to correct me from forming bad form, but it's worth a shot. I'm looking forward to next week's class.

[ChiDragon]

. I'm going to try to remember some of the movements and practice during the week. I don't know if that's a good idea. I won't have a coach to correct me from forming bad form, but it's worth a shot. I'm looking forward to next week's class.

 

It is a good idea to practice by doing the movements, but it is not necessary has to be accurate as a beginner. It takes lots of time to get acquaint with sequence of the movements. They can be corrected some place along the line in time.

 

I like the Yang Style Tai Ji more than the Wu Style(武). I saw my brother-in-law teaching the Wu style last week. It seems to me that the Wu style doesn't lift up one leg at a time as often as the Yang Style.

[Jainarayan]

Thanks for the tips. Then I will definitely practice. I can even do some at work in my cubicle or in the fitness center. I don't know if it was because there were a few of us that were beginners, but you are right, there were no leg lifts. It was arms and shoulders, and foot movements on the floor. They were simple movements. He said that next week there would be some different gentle and beginner movements. I think he varies it, but there was nothing difficult today... unless you have no grace or balance like me. He found it somewhat amusing, but not in a mocking way. He actually made it worse for me because I'd start laughing. After the class he stayed for at least 1/2 hour telling us stories of his past, very colorful character. I really like this man.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

To each their own, but I think you might benefit well from silk reeling practice, which is a, usually stationary, repetition of various Tai Chi movements which helps to internalize the feel of Tai Chi movement. It also allows you to practice for long periods of time without getting stuck on sequences. As a percussionist, I'm all about internalizing a movement so that it jumps out when called for. I think the more you do silk reeling correctly, the easier the form practices will be internalized. You're probably getting this from the class already, but thought I'd mention that. Best of luck on your recovery!

[ChiDragon]

I was soaking wet and already beginning to feel sore.

 

You welcome...!!!

 

You will feel the soreness for the next few weeks but don't give up. You were soaking wet because your muscles were not relaxed. Relax means do not apply hard intentional force, 陽力(Yang li) in your muscle. Go slow and easy with the soft strength, 陰力(Yin li). When you have done it correctly, you should only feel a little sweat on your forehead and in the area above the lips where your sweat glands are.

 

 

[Jainarayan]

Oh, I know soreness from the weight room! I actually kind of enjoy it... weird, I know. Yep, you're right about being tensed. I had that happen in temple one night. I was so tensed because I'm so inflexible, and trying to sit on the floor cross-legged, that I started sweating really bad. It was an isometric workout. Once I get comfortable and familiar with the surroundings, it will come naturally and I'll be more relaxed. One thing I pride myself on being is a quick study, and quick to adapt.