Attaining Emptiness - constant Reduction?

[3bob]

the true self is fully empty of the false self

[Rara]

the true self is fully empty of the false self

 

Yeah, I'd say that's more like it. Less of an abstract way of putting it!

[ChiForce]

Attempting to awaken is like attempting to grow a second head. It wont happen.

 

What many attempt to do are to succumb to habitual reactionary thoughts/feelings/acts which keep them from realizing that they are already awakened. This is where the term 'ignorance' applies in Buddhist thought.

 

There is a difference.

 

Hence, the right practice is not to seek awakening, but to focus on transforming unpleasant habitual tendencies from outer to inner.

True in a way but without the effort put into the cultivation practice (study the sutras and contemplate what is emptiness and the dharma wisdom) and to assume you are already awakened, that won't work. That is the same as sitting in meditation for years and not cultivating oneself and expecting to become awakened.

[ChiForce]

 

Ditto!

 

Some suggest, and I agree, that Buddhism is a tradition of inquiry into the true nature of reality. For example, Sakyamuni Buddha was not seeking enlightenment, but inquiring into the true nature of suffering. IMO, if you fully understand one thing, you will understand everything.

 

Or, as a Tibetan once said,..."Cultivating flowers reveals the innocence still seedling in whatever is beheld.”

One needs merit and the efforts in cultivation to receive enlightenment. You can't become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened.

[ChiForce]

This is worth repeating again.

 

Best regards.

No, that's the later Zen notion of sudden enlightenment. The actuality is that your vow to follow the dharma path has to be strong. You only arrive the notion of sudden enlightenment ONLY you have been putting a lot of effort in your cultivation process AND then you let go.

[RongzomFan]

No, that's the later Zen notion of sudden enlightenment. The actuality is that your vow to follow the dharma path has to be strong. You only arrive the notion of sudden enlightenment ONLY you have been putting a lot of effort in your cultivation process AND then you let go.

 

What do you consider enlightenment?

 

Even in Zen, enlightenment is omniscient Buddhahood, but somehow that seems to have gotten forgotten by modern practitioners.

[ChiForce]

What do you consider enlightenment?

 

Even in Zen, enlightenment is omniscient Buddhahood, but somehow that seems to have gotten forgotten by modern practitioners.

I would suggest everyone to read up Master Nan's "To Realized Enlightenment." He cited plenty of meditation cases from various sutras to explain that your sudden enlightenment is only possible AFTER you have been practicing the vow to follow the dharma path or/and studying the sutras. He even made fun of people thinking that they can become enlightened just by simply looking at a lotus flower blossoming (one of the meditation cases). You are kidding yourself if you think you can become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened. What is considered enlightenment? To achieve the 4 jhanas and to experience the 8 states of samadhi. And to completely free from the 5 skandhas.

Edited June 18, 2013 by ChiForce

[Jeff]

No, that's the later Zen notion of sudden enlightenment. The actuality is that your vow to follow the dharma path has to be strong. You only arrive the notion of sudden enlightenment ONLY you have been putting a lot of effort in your cultivation process AND then you let go.

Merit and "good" karma are still karma...

 

Best wishes on your path.

[RongzomFan]

I would suggest everyone to read up Master Nan's "To Realized Enlightenment." He cited plenty of meditation cases from various sutras to explain that your sudden enlightenment is only possible AFTER you have been practicing the vow to follow the dharma path or/and studying the sutras. He even made fun of people thinking that they can become enlightened just by simply looking at a lotus flower blossoming (one of the meditation cases). You are kidding yourself if you think you can become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened. What is considered enlightenment? To achieve the 4 jhanas and to experience the 8 states of samadhi. And to completely free from the 5 skandhas.

 

Zen is Mahayana, so its goal is omniscient Buddhahood through the 10 bhumis.

 

You can recognize the nature of the mind, through direct introduction in Vajrayana without reading texts.

[C T]

Are not habitual tendencies transformed into inner, still habitual tendencies? Is not "good" karma, still karma?

 

Could the practice be to accept and then drop (let go of) habitual tendencies?

 

Best wishes, Jeff

I think you might have misunderstood.

 

By transformation, i meant paying attention to habits tied to body, speech, coarse mind and subtle mind, seeing with attentiveness how certain traits bring about certain reactionary tendencies, and then, thru discipline, and with full awareness to act mindfully, choose to apply the correct antidotes so as to eventually uproot those tendencies which cause dualistic interpretations of what filters in thru the senses. Once these tendencies have been identified with fearless attentiveness, then they will then lose their grip on a person, and will fall away naturally, like a scab coming off when the time is right. There is no need to pull at it.

 

Clarity will arise on its own accord. No need to go seeking for it. Simply pay attention to mind and how it always yearns to shift into dualistic overdrive.

[Vmarco]

Ditto too.

 

How's Chiangmai, Vmarco? Its durian season in Thailand i believe. Yumm!

 

Would you be brave enough to try some, i wonder? Its a real challenge not many Westerners wish to take up. My Polish colleague had a spoon of it the other day, and loved it. Rare indeed.

 

 

Rambutan's are the prevalent fruit here at the moment. I lived on a rambutan orchard in Hawaii once, and spent many days picking and packaging them, so they bring back alot of memories. Didn't know durians were durians,...I thought them to be a variety of bread fruit,...which from the description, has a similiar strong odor (such as one would expect from a King of Fruits). I'll stick to the feminine fruits like mango and papaya.

 

I suppose they could be an enlightenment tool,...wake up, or eat a durian everyday,...you'll either wake up quick, or get to like durians.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Vmarco

[konchog uma]

I would suggest everyone to read up Master Nan's "To Realized Enlightenment." He cited plenty of meditation cases from various sutras to explain that your sudden enlightenment is only possible AFTER you have been practicing the vow to follow the dharma path or/and studying the sutras. He even made fun of people thinking that they can become enlightened just by simply looking at a lotus flower blossoming (one of the meditation cases). You are kidding yourself if you think you can become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened. What is considered enlightenment? To achieve the 4 jhanas and to experience the 8 states of samadhi. And to completely free from the 5 skandhas.

 

just thought i'd jump in and offer that the jhanas are conceptual while enlightenment is not. Also, the skandhas aren't poisoned or something we need to be free from. Shakyamuni and Guru Rinpoche had form, feelings, perceptions, intellect, and consciousness. They just didn't mistake them for an immortal self.

 

one way of looking at enlightenment is that all that obscures the innate omniscient awareness has been cleared away, which is a very rare accomplishment... but i think that talking about enlightenment is sort of pointless. Its a nice carrot in front of your nose, but its a non-conceptual state of being, so one can experience it, but can't talk about it. Shakyamuni realized that as soon as he attained it. He vowed to stay silent in the forest because he knew words would only obscure the truth, but the deities petitioned him to teach, so he found a way. You can't understand it though.. in spite of all the literature lol

 

[Spotless]

Most of us eat an apple and throw away the core.

 

It is habit.

 

If we prepare it in a thousand ways - we throw away the core.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Spotless