Nasty side effects from the Microcosmic Orbit - what am I doing wrong?

[Wells]

 

• In Mind Light Nei Kung, you Boil/Cook, Compress, Store Up and Refine Internal Power!

• Cooking & Compressing your Chi (Life Energy) into Jing (Internal Power) and then Refining it into Shen and then Refining Shen into Te with the Concentrated High Frequency Energy of your Mind is like Cooking & Compressing Water with Heat into Steam in a Pressure Cooker!

• In Mind Light Nei Kung Training, you are creating, increasing and refining Psychokinetic Energy Waves & Vibrations in your body and you are storing those up as Psychokinetic Power!

[Vitalii]

Many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

If a person uses Post-Heaven Qi, it is not a Small Celestial circulation, but only circulation of Qi in the Du mai and the Ren mai.

If a person uses Pre-Heven Qi and understands alchemical processes, it is a real Small Celestial circulation.

[Jetsun]

Because it's true, I like SFQ, and Chunyi Lin but MCO is a waste of everyone's time.

 

 

Well the Small Universe is pretty much the foundation exercise of the whole system and is used for your own development as well as healing others, Chunyi has said he still does it sometimes. It is also a system which has been scientifically tested, has legions of people who testify to its ability to develop you spiritually as well as heal, so I don't know how it isn't a "real system" as it clearly gets results. There is no requirement to be always grounded either and yet it still works.

 

I guess problems could arise from it if done incorrectly, with the SFQ version you do it using a guided recording which ensures you do the correct orbit, at the appropriate speed with the right breathing rhythm, with healing sounds and also you get the benefit of using the masters energy. If done without all of this I don't know if you will get as much benefit and there is more potential for complications.

[Mandrake]

 

Many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

If a person uses Post-Heaven Qi, it is not a Small Celestial circulation, but only circulation of Qi in the Du mai and the Ren mai.

If a person uses Pre-Heven Qi and understands alchemical processes, it is a real Small Celestial circulation.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. This confirms something I've encountered from other sources, although it is quite controversial for many.

 

 

M

[ChiDragon]

 

Many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

If a person uses Post-Heaven Qi, it is not a Small Celestial circulation, but only circulation of Qi in the Du mai and the Ren mai.

If a person uses Pre-Heven Qi and understands alchemical processes, it is a real Small Celestial circulation.

 

What are Post-Heaven QI and Pre-Heaven Qi to you......???

Edited June 16, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Sloppy Zhang]

I don't normally call out threads for thread drift. It's the internet and it happens and some of the best information comes out when a thread has "derailed."

 

But really guys, are we trying to help the OP, or compare inner door ? sheesh.

 

To the OP:

 

Get "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by Bruce Kumar Frantzis and practice the dissolving techniques and the three swings.

 

Also don't be afraid of working out or doing some other physical exercises (push ups, sit ups, squats, running, etc) This will work to ground you as well as get you nice and tired so you can sleep well at night

 

I find it odd that you were recommended a concentration exercise to cure your issue when concentration exercises exacerbate your reported issue.

 

And I also don't think relaxation exercises raise energy. I think instead they make you more aware of energy that is already raised. You can distract yourself with another practice (like the MCO) but that won't in the long run because you aren't actually doing anything with the energy. You're just relegating your awareness of it to the background.

 

Any practice that teaches you to dissolve/release DOWNWARD is going to help. This includes stuff like walking/running around barefoot in the grass, working out, having sex/masturbating (!!! controversial, I know!!!) and yes, traditional qigong, Tai Chi, Bagua, that will get you OUT of your head, INTO your body, and getting your body to DO SOMETHING with the energy you have awakened.

 

Still your mind, relax into emptiness, and let the energy settle on its own.

[Vitalii]

Thanks for bringing this up. This confirms something I've encountered from other sources, although it is quite controversial for many.

you are welcome ))

 

I learn Daoist Teaching in the traditional School, not in a modern

[Perceiver]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for all of your answers. It's incredible that so many will spend time on helping me, when you don't even know me or receive any payment. I feel some good vibes in here ! :-)

 

Maybe I should start out with elaborating a bit more on how I experience the nasty side effects: Since I had the kundalini experience, it seems like something has been triggered in me which will activate an energy imbalance whenever I use concentration exercises. My qigong teacher actually referred to my kundalini syndrome as being more of an energy imbalance, which sounds right in my opinion. So ever since then, I've avoided meditation, deep breathing, progressive relaxation, yoga and all related activities. Because they all give the same result: Once I start doing the exercise, I feel a "shift" in my body after a few minutes: It's like my heart is beating faster, I get a hectic energy inside, a slight headache, sometimes I can even feel nauseous, and I can get muscle cramps even though I haven't used my muscles. And then there's of course the insomnia, as a result of the excess energy.

 

I am impressed by how easily this shift happens: Even something as simple as a few minutes of vocal training will set it off. And if I read and write several hours during the day, then after two or three weeks the base of my spine starts feeling more and more tight, and I will start to develop a constant adrenaline state, with little sleep. So I've also had to stay away from concentration in general.

 

My qigong teacher and the people at the Kundalini Support Network forum all suggested the Microcosmic Orbit and the Inner Smile as a way to correct this energy imbalance, so i started doing this exercise 3 weeks ago.

 

I figured I might get some nasty side effects in the beginning, and I was right: I was probably only 10 seconds into the meditation when I felt a shift in my body and it started shaking, feeling uncomfortable etc. But interestingly, this faded after 4-5 days, and the exercise then started having a positive effect on me; it made me feel good. Unfortunately it still did not ground me. It seemed to do the opposite thing. So the insomnia is still there, which is really irritating..

 

But I've had a look at the advice you gave me, and will post my idea of what do now (in next post):..

[Perceiver]

In MCO its imperative that you bring the energy back to the LDT in order to close the form and make sure energy isn't swimming elsewhere in the body where it can do harm. Are you closing?

 

What exactly is the lower dantien?..

 

I visualize that my energy is a pearl the size of my belly - touching the perineum, ming-men and navel. I cycle this through the orbit and then I bring it back to the belly, still the size of the entire belly and then spin it around. When done, I open my eyes.. Would that be considered adequate?..

[Perceiver]

Have you found the thread helpful yet?

 

This might be helpful, but really, this should be assessed in person so this might miss the target really good.

 

Why did Gerard and myself recommend Hsing-I?

Because Hsing-I, taught under an acceptable proficient teacher, will teach you to close down and ground your body and your energy gates before you open up. Santi and five element training will connect and mend an energy system that is, instead of using a better term, "broken".

 

Hi there. What Hsing-I?.. I haven't heard about before..

[Perceiver]

I don't normally call out threads for thread drift. It's the internet and it happens and some of the best information comes out when a thread has "derailed."

 

But really guys, are we trying to help the OP, or compare inner door ? sheesh.

 

To the OP:

 

Get "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by Bruce Kumar Frantzis and practice the dissolving techniques and the three swings.

 

Hey there. Thanks.. Could you perhaps explain (briefly) how the "dissolving techniques" and "the three swings" would help ground the energy?.. I am completely new to qigong, - that's why I ask..

[Jetsun]

What instructions do you use for the MCO? what speed do you do it? I have noticed that if I do it at the same sort of speed or rhythm I am normally in it can energise my agitation or stress, whereas if I do it slowly with slow breathing then it creates a more harmonious healing pace in my system.

 

If you want to try the SFQ version try this https://soundcloud.com/rolf-h-corneliussen/01-sitting-meditation-small

Edited June 16, 2013 by Jetsun

[Vitalii]

Hi there. What Hsing-I?.. I haven't heard about before..

 

 

You can find more information about Xingyi Quan here http://zhendaopai.com/xingyi-quan/

[Perceiver]

And by the way, I agree that this thread has been slightly hijacked by the two gentlemen with the heated discussion . Please try and have that discussion in another thread, thanks ;-)

 

Okay so here's my list of ideas to get my situation back on track..

 

Stop doing the MCO and get some sleep

 

Good point. Friday night I was unable to sleep at all (!). And boy did I feel tired Saturday.. I didnt do the MCO, and Saturday night I was fortunately able to sleep 8 hours. Thank god.. Will see how it unfolds the coming days..

 

Only do the MCO exercise in the dantien - don't cycle through the orbit

 

Could be a good idea.. Might have to try doing that exclusively for a week and see how it goes..

 

Focus on closing the MCO properly

 

Good point. I don't do anything specific to close it - only spin the peal around in the belly for a minute or so. That might not be enough..

 

Clear out your bad Chi first

 

Yes, I've also considered doing the six healing sounds first (mantak chia).. Maybe that would work

 

Walk barefoot in the grass and go hiking, exercise etc to ground the energy

 

I live in the cold North, so going barefoot is not an option .. Exercising in my opinion has only given a short-term reduction in the energy - if I keep reading the following days, the energy will build even more. Cardio training for some reason seems to make the energy more hyperactive? - Although it does reduce muscle cramps and nausea..

 

Hiking might help, but I doubt it's enough if I want to read and write 8-10 hours per day (which I do). - Because then the energy slowly starts building..

[Vitalii]

What are Post-Heaven QI and Pre-Heaven Qi to you......???

 

Post-Heaven QI and Pre-Heaven Qi differ from each other of in quality, information, methods of work, manifestation etc.

We can collect Post-Heaven QI by use of Tuna, Qigong, Dao Ying. But we can't collect Pre-Heaven Qi by use of abovesaid arts, as this requires the Inner Alchemy.

I have written a book where I give a detailed account of Daoist terminology, basic Daoist practice "building the foundation", and Inner Alchemy. Now this information is available only in Russian.

I'm planning to translate my book into English in future.

At the moment I am translating the fundamental theory and publishing it on my webpage. http://zhendaopai.com/

A bit later I will publish an acticle on the "Three Treasures", where I will explain the Post-Heaven QI and Pre-Heaven Qi.

[h.uriahr]

What exactly is the lower dantien?..

 

I visualize that my energy is a pearl the size of my belly - touching the perineum, ming-men and navel. I cycle this through the orbit and then I bring it back to the belly, still the size of the entire belly and then spin it around. When done, I open my eyes.. Would that be considered adequate?..

 

Doing the navel, perineum and Ming men circulation is good. Once you really feel it you can do the full MCO...OR, you can blow out certain rough spots and force the MCO.

 

 

[h.uriahr]

Hi guys

 

Hope you can help me with an answer to something that is really eating away at my quality of life..

 

I recently started doing the Microcosmic Orbit about three weeks ago. I started the exercise as I wanted to manage my kundalini syndrome. About two years ago I got a "minor" kundalini release, and since then I have had to stay away from concentration, relaxation exercises and meditation - because they would increase the energy and give me insomnia.

 

I started doing the MCO as I had been instructed that it would cure this symptom by grounding the energy inside ones body. I've been doing it daily, and I must admit that it feels like it's doing the opposite: More energy is being released in my body, and my insomnia has worsened. It's at the point now where I'm unable to take naps anymore, and I sleep so bad that I don't have energy to read/write, be creative or social..

 

My taoist teacher has suggested I try and run the exercise in reverse - up the front and down the spine, so as to stimulate more water production in my system, to counter the fire production. Maybe this will help.. But so far the same has happened as when I've done concentration exercises before: The energy is boosted, which results in insomnia.

 

My question is: Is this "normal"? Is it to be expected and will it fade as I become more experienced in these exercises? Have you experienced something like this yourselves, and would you know what to do?

 

Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated, as it's really starting to affect my quality of life..

 

Not needing the sleep is a side effect, insomnia with energy loss is a negative effect. The more fuel you add the hotter the furnace and the more negative that gets sweat out. It's like tempering steel. If you have too much energy free flying around then what I personally have found to be effect is to do a couple of spine condensing breaths and then pulling that around to ldt and doing some pore breathing to the dantian, closing out then doing layered relaxation. I'm not a pro by any means but I've found this to be effect.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hey there. Thanks.. Could you perhaps explain (briefly) how the "dissolving techniques" and "the three swings" would help ground the energy?.. I am completely new to qigong, - that's why I ask..

 

Dissolving techniques loosen energy and let it fall naturally down.

 

The Three Swings help loosen the body, as well as energize and balance the three dantiens. Also, they're fun to do

[Mudfoot]

Cardio training for some reason seems to make the energy more hyperactive? - Although it does reduce muscle cramps and nausea..

 

Hiking might help, but I doubt it's enough if I want to read and write 8-10 hours per day (which I do). - Because then the energy slowly start building.

 

 

 

Reading, thinking much, ....

Normally, not a big problem. Combined with a disturbed energetic system, it will raise the qi and Italien might "get stuck" in the head.

In my experience, physical exercise can aleviate(?) (lessen) the problem, but it will not heal you.

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Gerard

[joeblast]

What exactly

build the foundation and return to energetic practices once you have enough of a foundation to support it. grounding, aside from all of the physical stuff mentioned, deconstruct your breathing mechanism. feel out the components - diaphragm, psoas, perineum, front of abdomen, to a lesser extent, quadratur lumborum, lesser still, obliques on the sides. smooth them all out, all of the motions. make them coherent and harmonious. keep it in a yin-fashion...normally I will say to find the energetic culminations of those structures and feel-learn the physical matrix calculus that is their interactions...and the energetic potential, time it all about the lower dantien point 2 inches below the navel, front:back in proportion 3:7. I wouldnt recommend for you to do that portion of it though, just focus on making them soft, slender, calm, harmonious...the breath will become more fine, longer in length. cease using the air passageways to breathe after some practice time and only use the diaphragm-psoas-perineum to breathe. this is basically the physical essence of anapana.

 

calm the boldily processes down, settle the heart-mind, repeat until you reach a complete and utter stillness, superlative calm.

 

this is important to settle the energy, the better you can do this, the better you can integrate the energies you otherwise cultivate.

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Mudfoot]

 

Get "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by Bruce Kumar Frantzis and practice the dissolving techniques and the three swings.

www.energyarts.com

 

This material is exellent, by the way.

[ChiDragon]

Maybe I should start out with elaborating a bit more on how I experience the nasty side effects: Since I had the kundalini experience, it seems like something has been triggered in me which will activate an energy imbalance whenever I use concentration exercises. My qigong teacher actually referred to my kundalini syndrome as being more of an energy imbalance, which sounds right in my opinion. So ever since then, I've avoided meditation, deep breathing, progressive relaxation, yoga and all related activities. Because they all give the same result: Once I start doing the exercise, I feel a "shift" in my body after a few minutes: It's like my heart is beating faster, I get a hectic energy inside, a slight headache, sometimes I can even feel nauseous, and I can get muscle cramps even though I haven't used my muscles. And then there's of course the insomnia, as a result of the excess energy.

 

I am impressed by how easily this shift happens: Even something as simple as a few minutes of vocal training will set it off. And if I read and write several hours during the day, then after two or three weeks the base of my spine starts feeling more and more tight, and I will start to develop a constant adrenaline state, with little sleep. So I've also had to stay away from concentration in general.

 

My qigong teacher and the people at the Kundalini Support Network forum all suggested the Microcosmic Orbit and the Inner Smile as a way to correct this energy imbalance, so i started doing this exercise 3 weeks ago.

 

I figured I might get some nasty side effects in the beginning, and I was right: I was probably only 10 seconds into the meditation when I felt a shift in my body and it started shaking, feeling uncomfortable etc. But interestingly, this faded after 4-5 days, and the exercise then started having a positive effect on me; it made me feel good. Unfortunately it still did not ground me. It seemed to do the opposite thing. So the insomnia is still there, which is really irritating..

 

But I've had a look at the advice you gave me, and will post my idea of what do now (in next post):..

 

What exactly is the lower dantien?..

 

Based on your new input.....

You don't know what is lower dantien and you don't do deep breathing, are a good indication of lack of energy instead of energy imbalance. There is no such thing as "energy imbalance", it is either you have energy or not. It seems to you have not received the proper instruction from you teacher or you had not learned the MCO procedure correctly.

 

Please keep in mind, all martial arts and Chi Kung practices require the leaning of breathing.

 

I get a hectic energy inside, a slight headache, sometimes I can even feel nauseous, and I can get muscle cramps even though I haven't used my muscles. And then there's of course the insomnia, as a result of the excess energy.

All the conditions in the above is an indication due to hypoxia, lack of oxygen. Especially, when a man was doing some self-pleasure on his own will cause him all these symptoms. The reason you feel slight headache and nauseous is because you don't know how to breathe. Especially, in you present condition, you are definitely have a breathing problem which need to be corrected. You should not do deep breathing but just breath slowly deep down to a comfortable point then stop and exhale slowly again.

 

Most people will tell you to do deep breathing but they do not tell you how to correct your breathing problem before you can do deep breathing. Only breathing oxygen into your body will help you to generate energy. You can do all kind of the Chinese methods without breathing will lead you no where. Believe me, I have when through the same thing as you are experiencing now. Tai Ji or Chi Kung is you solution.

 

 

PS...

"And then there's of course the insomnia, as a result of the excess energy." This is a fallacy on your part. You are really lack of energy instead of the excess energy that was causing the insomnia. Energy always do you some good not something bad.

Edited June 24, 2013 by ChiDragon