A Framework for Learning Jing Gong

[Trunk]

I've said this before, but worth repeating as a topic. A very broad framework to keep in mind while learning about the sexual qigong practices ("jing gong"). There are 3 very natural categories (that of course overlap) of knowledge/practice:

 

1. Healing Jing Gong

This is the medical layer of knowledge/practice. What are the typical disharmonies from a Chinese medical viewpoint? What are the dynamics of how those disharmonies occur?

 

2. Healthy Jing Gong

This is knowledge/practice for a normal healthy individual. No semen retention, no immortal body ... just a normal healthy person, normal sexual cycle. How to smooth and harmonize the different parts of that? How/why things go wrong, how to adjust for normal healthy harmony.

 

3. Advanced Jing Gong

Transformation into Light, (maybe) retention, marrow washing ... most all the fancy things you read about as well as just quieter deeper development.

 

 

You might find it useful to keep the above framework in mind, over the long term.

 

Trunk

[liminal_luke]

Trunk,

 

I appreciate your cautious approach to this subject, and your concern for the health and wellbeing of your fellow taobums. Many male bums, myself included, are very intrigued by the idea that it's possible to advance in spiritual practice through jing retension. It's long been a goal of mine although I've never been successful enough to experience failing health. Emotionally though I think my cycle does take it's toll. Meditation and spiritual growth is important to me, and it irks me that I seem unable to retain my jing for any significant period of time. Perhaps my inability thus far is itself a sign that I'm not ready for what you call advanced jing gong?

 

The whole topic reminds me of a study I read about recently in which scientists concluded that it's impossible for obese people to lose weight, and they'd be better off not trying. I'm not sure I buy that. There's so much evidence that being really overweight is unhealthy, you can't blame people for not giving up fighting the fat. Still, it's mighty demoralizing trying diet after diet and being successful for awhile only to gain the weight back in the end. Anyway, I tell this story because it illustrates what happens to me. I've got years of sex dieting under my belt, and always seem to put back on the pounds--go back to day 0.

 

I'd love to hear more specifically what, in your view, the reasonable prerequisites to retention are. What questions should a bum ask himself to determine if retention makes sense in his particular case? What practices might a bum do to prevent stagnant heat if he does decide to try retention?

 

Thanks,

 

Liminal

[Trunk]

... intrigued by the idea that it's possible to advance in spiritual practice through jing retension.

 

 

I'd love to hear more specifically what, in your view, the reasonable prerequisites to retention are. What questions should a bum ask himself to determine if retention makes sense in his particular case? What practices might a bum do to prevent stagnant heat if he does decide to try retention?

 

A big part of the problem is that the popular "frame" for sexual practice discussion is retention-centric. My most basic point is that the entire study needs to be reframed. This is not about quick answers... it's about a broader framework that leads to a variety of other questions and lines of inquiry than even come up under a narrower framework. Changes the shape of inquiry over the long term, with many new answers resulting. So this framework isn't about first providing a new set of answers, it's about changing how we look at the subject so that we start asking new questions. From there you'll research, and observe, and get lots of new answers.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Trunk

[liminal_luke]

Thanks for your response Trunk. I think sex is about so much more than sex as popuarly imagined. Our desires, or lack thereof, are entangled very deeply with who we are and how we feel about ourselves. Or at least that's how it is for me. And the desire to restrict ourselves sexually, as in jing retention, is likewise a very deep thing and potentially has to do with so much more than the conscious desire for spiritual progress.

 

I agree that taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture of jing gong, rather than focusing narrowly on semen retention and what "day" I'm on, makes sense.

Edited June 18, 2013 by liminal_luke

[JohnC]

 

A big part of the problem is that the popular "frame" for sexual practice discussion is retention-centric. My most basic point is that the entire study needs to be reframed. This is not about quick answers... it's about a broader framework that leads to a variety of other questions and lines of inquiry than even come up under a narrower framework. Changes the shape of inquiry over the long term, with many new answers resulting. So this framework isn't about first providing a new set of answers, it's about changing how we look at the subject so that we start asking new questions. From there you'll research, and observe, and get lots of new answers.

Bolded for emphasis... thank you for pointing this out. I'd put flashing yellow lights around it if I could.

I was going to point out to liminal, that you bearly mentioned retention, but you said it yourself.

 

I know in my system (in my limited knowledge), jing dong gong, that it's all taken care of naturally via the practice and then through allowing your intuition to guide you. That said for me stretching, herbs, foam roller, and exercising completement the hell out of it.

 

John

[Trunk]

This is really an unusual discussion, ... it's not the sort of point that generates any kind of answers nor points-to-discuss immediately. I know that it hasn't for me. What I feel, just having this sort of framework in mind is that I'm sensing huge critical gaps in my knowledge, where I didn't before. I have more of a tendency to open up new lines of inquiry, ask different questions, dissect a little more. It doesn't happen right away... my advice is just to consider the above frame, hang with it, reference next time you consider some aspect of the study ... and just see what happens to your inquiry...

So, maybe the result of this thread is "new thoughts", "new questions", "new directions of curiosity" ... that come to you out of a new frame for a subject. The box is a new shape. Next time your considering a jing gong topic, throw it through this box. You'll find the inquiry will bounce around in your head along new trajectories.

 

p.s.

ime, This framework also fosters a more realistic assessment of one's self. In general, everyone is a mix of fucked up, basically normal, and really extraordinary. There's room for that in this framework.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Trunk

[joeblast]

regarding retention-centric - if there is no mind celibacy then there can be no body celibacy. that's just a fact to be dealt with here. one needs to attain a measure of accomplishment in mind celibacy before even thinking about physical celibacy, retention etc. if you dont know how to set up a stove and light a flame, how you gonna boil...and if your pot for the stove is leaky, its going to cool the water down having to keep adding enough to keep the vessel full, so = good luck getting that to boil...

Edited June 18, 2013 by joeblast

[hydrogen]

regarding retention-centric - if there is no mind celibacy then there can be no body celibacy. that's just a fact to be dealt with here. one needs to attain a measure of accomplishment in mind celibacy before even thinking about physical celibacy, retention etc.

 

What is mind celibacy? Can you give me some solid examples?

 

I used to work as a bouncer in a strip club. What could I think to have mind celibacy in that environment? Thanks.

[Trunk]

I'm not discarding advanced ideas, just recognizing that that's not where everyone is at.

People vary.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Trunk

[JustBHappy]

For me personally, neither mind celibacy nor body celibacy are needed or particularly important. There are many different paths, some are clearly more dangerous and/or rewarding than others. Each person needs to find their own path and a lifestyle and daily practice that works for them. There is no "one size fits all" and one will find that changes happen in different stages of ones life, different seasons, phases of the moon etc....So one size will not even work for one person at all times.

One can absolutely enjoy a healthy sex life while preserving the precious fluid. In fact there are definite energetic benefits.

[joeblast]

What is mind celibacy? Can you give me some solid examples?

 

I used to work as a bouncer in a strip club. What could I think to have mind celibacy in that environment? Thanks.

restraining, attenuating, ceasing lustful thought. efferent nerves respond to thoughtforms, it is a subconscious process.

 

hah...you could think "am I fooling myself trying to think I can go two directions at the same time?" and for a second thought "bouncing probably isnt conducive to alchemy" of course not all bars are meat markets...

[Wells]

It's been my experience that most people who throw the terms around are transforming terms into terms, words into words, is all.

 

In a normal everyday life scenario, jing spontaneously converts into qi, and qi into shen. One can enhance or speed up or slow down this process via qigong, taiji and other non-alchemical practices. In the alchemical process, one can go backward, against the flow, and convert shen into qi and qi into jing. There's no non-alchemical processes that convert qi into jing. Think of it this way. A gardener who facilitates the growth of a seed into a tree, tending to it, watering, pruning, fertilizing, etc., is converting its jing into qi under the most favorable conditions. However, even with the best care he can't convert the tree back into the seed. Now a gardener who can get the tree to contract into a seed is indeed converting qi into jing. The former is a master; the latter, a wizard. Jing-to-qi conversions are ordinary processes that can, however, take place at a low, medium, or high level of mastery or intent. Qi-to-jing conversions are magical processes that involve a measure of control over destiny, time, and even tao. Whoever can convert qi to jing is playing with gods in their playground.

 

[liminal_luke]

In the spirit of expanding my working definition of jing gong, I'd like to list some potential jing

gong areas of inquiry other than the much ballyhooed retention.

 

If I'm in a relationship will I be monogamous? Is monogamy something I demand of my partner or am I willing to do it unilaterally? If I'm not in a relationship under what conditions will I have sex with someone else?

 

Is it ok for me to look at porn?

 

Will I consciously flirt, cruise, or send sexual vibes to others?

 

How do I get non-sexual touch in my life? Am I getting enough? Do I hug, cuddle, get massage?

 

How is my level and type of physical activity effecting my eroticism? Do I exercise and move enough, too much?

 

How is my diet effecting my eroticism? Am I eating in a way that makes me feel sexually vital?

 

Am I caring for my physical appearance in a way that is in-line with my values? What do I do to look good, or is it important to me to look good? How does my caring for my appearance bear on my sexuality?

 

How am I caring for my health generally, and what effect does this have on me sexually?

 

Do I take chinese tonic herbs to build jing?

 

Do I do chi gung specifically aimed to nourish my kidneys, and sexual energy?

 

Is my whole body alive with sexual energy, or am I narrowly focused on my genitals? Do I make room for the erotic potential of the anus and prostrate? Touch? Massage? Aneros?

 

Is my sexual life varied and creative? Do I feel comfortable talking about sexual fantasy with my partner? Would I like to expand my sexual repetoire?

 

What role does masturbation play in my life? Am I comfortable with frequency? Is it a quick let's-get-this-done thing or do I take my time? Am I more focused on bodily sensation or a fantasy in my head?

 

.................................................

 

Any comments on this list? What would you add?

Edited June 20, 2013 by liminal_luke

[Trunk]

Here's a few lines of thought, put through the above Healing~Healthy~Advanced prism...

The issue of "post-ejaculation dip". The conversation virtually *always* jumps to semen retention as the only answer; there's no sense of increment here. To address the "healing" and "healthy" levels... What about from a Chinese medical perspective, how would that dip get described? What about for normal men, who are ejaculating at a healthy rate, what about understanding that cycle and what practices would be appropriate for smoothing a NORMAL sexual cycle?

We know that retention, and to a lesser degree regular sexual activity, can cause "stagnant heat". So...
From the "Healing" (Chinese medical) level, what is the basic strategy to treat stagnant heat? ... what is the mechanism/s that it sees that produces it? What channels are especially relevant? Relevant self-acupressure, qigong? What sort of practices would make it worse?

At a "healthy" level, "not going on too long" is by far more important than "absolute retention".

I think that, in the e-community, the PUA scene is an attempt for men to claim their "healthy normal" sexuality. Basically an attempt to learn courtship and normal healthy relations. (This is, of course, looking at the better parts of the scene.)

And then, aside from "healing-healthy-normal", there's "mistaking an auxilliary path for the main path". There's a lot of that going on here... but that's a whole other discussion involving principles and in the 3 categories that I've given here I haven't described principles at all really, just a very broad shell to be filled in by long study.

Anyway, that's my blab.

 

 

p.s. (and the rant goes on)

 

I had a typical western athletic upbringing, participated in sports, etc. I would say that my background gave me basically zero training in the internal arts and often reinforced holdings in my body. Even a more resounding zero was social and family life. I'm not saying I had it bad, I'm just saying that a normal western upbringing doesn't give you foundations, through your formative stages, for the internal arts. Rather the opposite.

 

In many different traditions there is an extensive period of "opening the channels and tissues" and "aligning and clarifying the mind" and "integrating the body with heaven and earth". In the Tibetan tradition there is the "five one hundred thousands" which include 100,000 prostrations, 100,000 mantra repetitions, 100,000 etc, lol. In bagua, I've heard that traditionally a student just does circle walking (I assume a simple version) for three years before they learn anything else. These are the preliminary steps, before you are given any deeper teachings.

 

So, I'm suggesting something that we all probably know too well already: we are skipping steps, lol.

 

My shing-yi teacher said that to be called a "sifu", a teacher needed to be proficient in 3 things:

1. a doctor

2. internal martial art

3. the wisdom teachings

There is a message there about the basic functional parts that a student, or at least 'many students', needs in order to effectively, in a healthy way, navigate the path. Very few of us have a close enough relationship with a teacher of those capacities. Worse than that, the pop-Taoist field is full of partial and often injurious information (mixed with some really great stuff). It's such a wild time. So, we as students are in a position of having to fill those gaps just to get some foundations. I'm just sayin'.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Trunk