rene Posted July 29, 2013 Schizophrenics are like that. In what way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 29, 2013 In what way? They imagine things to be different from what they truely are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 29, 2013 Well, my top is truly spinning on the floor, just as the earth truly spins through space. But that's okay, little cicada; the P'eng could not be part of what is real for you. (-: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 29, 2013 Ah!, the P'eng bird. But she too sees things from her own perspective just as the sparrow does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 29, 2013 Ah!, the P'eng bird. But she too sees things from her own perspective just as the sparrow does. She does indeed! Does that mean she "imagines things to be different then they truly are" ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 29, 2013 Does that mean she "imagines things to be different then they truly are" ? What a question! Where are the words? ... ... ... First let us consider that the P'eng and the sparrow both understand their own reality clearly without any illusions or delusions. What the P'eng experiences are her true realities. What the sparrow experiences are her own true realities as well. They are at different levels. (Pun intended.) Because the P'eng is what she is she must go high. Because the sparrow is what she is she must remain low. The monkey lives up, in the trees; the deer lives on the ground amongst the trees. Each place is "right" for each. As with the P'eng and the sparrow, each's place is right for them. Of course, the P'eng will have to adapt when it changes back into a fish. The sparrow will remain a sparrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted July 29, 2013 You missed my point, little sparrow, and that's okay. Thanks for your reply. (-: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 29, 2013 You missed my point, little sparrow, and that's okay. Thanks for your reply. (-: I think I might have ignored your point but I'm not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) Uh. No. I think you misunderstood what I am saying. The 道 existed before any of the gods in the sense that the 道 never existed at all. Okay, I buy that but it is your word against Lao Tze. BTW Based on your logic, you are so right; 道 never existed at all because Lao Tze was the one who created it. Edited July 29, 2013 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raine Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) I would read this entire thread but, haven't the energy. Why does it have to be so complex. Tao is intangible yet, it can be experienced and "its" effects obserserved. All of these opposites (good & bad, beautiful & ugly, etc.) are there because we choose to see them in such ways. They are not truths but, perseptions which can also be experienced and the effects of those choices observed. They, being non-truth, thoughts, are also intangable. Truth is found by seeing through our perseptions to some virtue, some faith, that all has equal merit. Afterall, my misfortune today may be my blessing tomarrow, etc. Edited August 1, 2013 by Raine 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rene Posted August 1, 2013 I would read this entire thread but, haven't the energy. Why does it have to be so complex.Tao is intangible yet, it can be experienced and "its" effects obserserved. All of these opposites (good & bad, beautiful & ugly, etc.) are there because we choose to see them in such ways. They are not truths but, perseptions which can also be experienced and the effects of those choices observed. They, being non-truth, thoughts, are also intangable. Truth is found by seeing through our perseptions to some virtue, some faith, that all has equal merit. Afterall, my misfortune today may be my blessing tomarrow, etc. Tao is simple and as natural as breathing. (-: People like to make this complex because 1) they need something to talk about 2) if it's too simple, there's nothing (solutions to the complexity) to sell. There are other reasons, but you'd need to ask Marblehead. He might not tell you though, for complex reasons. warm regards 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted August 1, 2013 P'eng and the sparrow , both are collecting data accurately , the peceptions that they derive from that objective data always have subjective component . That which the data is coming from is what could be called true,,, when we call something true,, we are making an assessment that what we are describing, correlates to that which does exist. If I was to walk out to the river , and attempt to cross this morning , I could walk the way across. Tomorrow , if I walk my way to the river and attempt to cross, surprised, I may fall in! ( it melted) How can that be , if what exists ,,depends on what I imagine? I am surprised,so that which I imagined- was not confirmed! Surprise alone is enough to prove -what exists , is independent of our understanding. but our understanding may mirror what exists. ( so we really can walk across the frozen river until it thaws) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 1, 2013 Why does it have to be so complex.Tao is intangible yet, it can be experienced and "its" effects observed Here is one more....It has to be so complex is because the experience was experienced by the inexperienced. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 1, 2013 Surprise alone is enough to prove -what exists , is independent of our understanding. but our understanding may mirror what exists. Amen to that!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted August 1, 2013 Here is one more.... It has to be so complex is because the experience was experienced by the inexperienced. Yep. I have known that. Failure to understand the experience. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
