The decline and eventual fall of the USA as world superpower?

[joeblast]

I not really a big fan of talking about politics, global warming, world events, etc. but I'll look into it. Honestly it all seems like a big crappy mess to me that I'd rather stay out of. I regret posting on this thread. People will ramble on and on and on about this stuff.

ROFL..."here, let me help you" and refer you to one of the biggest fraudsters in the business, "Dr" Michael Mann. He wasnt said to be the Jerry Sandusky of climate science for nuttin'. (Basically because the whitewash "investigation" Penn State gave Mann was about as thorough as the one they gave Sandusky, both equally as guilty of their respective malfeasance.)

 

"Please delete the emails referencing this, that, the other thing" and "we shouldnt be subject to FOIA"

 

[voidisyinyang]

100,000 years whatever. The idea is that the evolution of life occured through random mutations and survival of the fittest right?

 

that's the NeoDarwinist model based on the "selfish gene" - it was used to support the NeoFascist Reagan Revolution of the 1980s.

 

Evolution of life?

 

Funny since the term "evolution" was coined during the industrial revolution which has caused the fastest mass extinction of species in Earth's history of life.

 

As far as the science of evolution -- again you would have to read E.O. Wilson's new book - "The Social Conquest of Nature."

 

Eusociality is the new key term for human "evolution."

 

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Edward-O-Wilsons-New-Take-on-Human-Nature.html

 

 

 

How did we and the ants gain our superpowers? By being super-cooperators, groupies of the group, willing to set aside our small, selfish desires and I-minded drive to join forces and seize opportunity as a self-sacrificing, hive-minded tribe. There are plenty of social animals in the world, animals that benefit by living in groups of greater or lesser cohesiveness. Very few species, however, have made the leap from merely social to eusocial, “eu-” meaning true. To qualify as eusocial, in Wilson’s definition, animals must live in multigenerational communities, practice division of labor and behave altruistically, ready to sacrifice “at least some of their personal interests to that of the group.”

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Edward-O-Wilsons-New-Take-on-Human-Nature.html#ixzz2gghzUyK2

Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

So how does that affect DNA mutations?

well then you have to get into epigenetics.

And if you really want to understand then you need to get into quantum biology.

NeoDarwinism continues to dominant biology since corporations dominate academic universities - like Cargill and Monsanto controlling biology research at the U of Minnesota -- or the Cancer Industry - plastics, petroleum, etc. dominating the "Life Sciences", etc.

Yep it's a big scam just like eugenics was "progressive" in the 1920s and 30s - along with sanitation. U of MInnesota had the biggest eugenics academics - the term was "how to grow a better man crop."

So yes "survival of the fittest" mentality is still the dominant misconception and yes it goes along with the thrust of modern humanity of the last 10,000 years.

It's not the norm of real human evolution of the last 100,000 years though - which was a culture where all the males trained to be qigong masters.

[Brian]

More like 500,000 years, actually, but let's not split hairs. And the subjugation of humans by humans far predates the iron age, and occurred in civilizations which never reached the iron age.

 

Little-"e" evolution is a natural process, and can be demonstrated on a near-real-time basis (see bacteriophage, for example). Capital-"e" Evolution is a religion, plain and simple.

 

Alinskyites and other "useful idiots" will continue their vitriolic & emotional tantrums (using sado-sexual slurs intended to offend those who disagree with their logic, pointing to their own propaganda as proof they are right, etc.) but centralized government is the root problem in the US, starting in earnest with Woodrow Wilson but tracing back much earlier than that. The collusion of government and industry (corporatism is a hallmark of fascism, not of the free-market), the current philosophy of perpetual war (remember the prescient warnings about "the military-industrial complex?"), and the farce that the problem with government education is that it just needs more government in it -- these factors combine to create the environment The Pink Floyd so aptly described in The Wall.

 

Add to that the literal demoralization (replacement of responsibility with regulation) and disengagement of the citizenry (witness the current transition from individual-payer to third-party-payer to single-payer/government healthcare and you have a situation that is a cross between Animals (to continue the Floyd theme) and Brave New World.

 

When you recognize your train is passing a "Bridge Out!" sign, the sane response is not "We need more steam!"

[xor]

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/10/01/on_the_eve_of_the_government_shutdown_the_pentagon_spent_billions_on_weapons

To me doesn't sound like the behaviour of someone out of money to spend a crapload of money on weapons.

[thelerner]

'Survival of the Fittest' caught on in popular jargon, but the truth is its 'Survival of the most Adaptable'. Specialists, within species tend to deal poorly with change.

[zerostao]

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/10/01/on_the_eve_of_the_government_shutdown_the_pentagon_spent_billions_on_weapons

 

To me doesn't sound like the behaviour of someone out of money to spend a crapload of money on weapons.

they probably bought a few hammers, had a vegas junkett, their usual stuff

[Brian]

Got monuments to guard and such...

[Ad Nauseaum]

100,000 years whatever.

 

The idea is that the evolution of life occured through random mutations and survival of the fittest right?

 

I studied evolution in biology class and have watch Richard Dawkins a lot. I'm not going to talk like I'm an expert and know exactly what I'm talking about because I'm not, but that's pretty much what I've always heard. Correct me if I'm wrong.

'Random' mutations and 'survival of the fittest' is quite a poor choice of words. Natural or artificial selection is far more accurate a description.

 

Evolution is often misunderstood as something that 'happens' suddenly. The important thing to remember is that it is a continuous process, wherein every specimen is the same species as it's parents and it's children, but a different one to it's ancestors millions of years earlier.

[KenBrace]

'Random' mutations and 'survival of the fittest' is quite a poor choice of words. Natural or artificial selection is far more accurate a description.

 

Evolution is often misunderstood as something that 'happens' suddenly. The important thing to remember is that it is a continuous process, wherein every specimen is the same species as it's parents and it's children, but a different one to it's ancestors millions of years earlier.

 

That brings up a question reguarding evolution that I've always wondered. Take wings for example. How did they come about? The first beginnings of a wing that resulted from a mutation wouldn't aid the creature. There's no reason the creatures with the beginnings of wings would be more advanced and the members of the species to reproduce. Lions might grow stronger and larger because only the stronger, larger ones will reproduce. How would traits that are only benificial after millions of years of improvement come about?

[ralis]

Alinskyites and other "useful idiots" will continue their vitriolic & emotional tantrums (using sado-sexual slurs intended to offend those who disagree with their logic, pointing to their own propaganda as proof they are right, etc.) but centralized government is the root problem in the US, starting in earnest with Woodrow Wilson but tracing back much earlier than that. The collusion of government and industry (corporatism is a hallmark of fascism, not of the free-market), the current philosophy of perpetual war (remember the prescient warnings about "the military-industrial complex?"), and the farce that the problem with government education is that it just needs more government in it -- these factors combine to create the environment The Pink Floyd so aptly described in The Wall.

 

Add to that the literal demoralization (replacement of responsibility with regulation) and disengagement of the citizenry (witness the current transition from individual-payer to third-party-payer to single-payer/government healthcare and you have a situation that is a cross between Animals (to continue the Floyd theme) and Brave New World.

 

When you recognize your train is passing a "Bridge Out!" sign, the sane response is not "We need more steam!"

 

A free market economy is a myth. Ayn Rand et al, have perpetrated the idea that humans act rationally in a so called free market. Markets only work by state intervention and regulation. Why? Human participants are not always reasonable or rational. Emotion and in most cases fear are what drives markets. E.g. the stock market is driven by self interest, fear and hope. Given the human propensity towards the irrational, it is imperative that regulation be imposed in the market economy. In 1999 there was a move to deregulate the banks which allowed commercial banking and investment to be in the same company. JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs et al are examples. What followed was the banking crisis which was perpetuated by derivative trading and other high risk investments underpinned by low capitalization, which the Fed allowed. A 10% drop in the value of the bets is what bankrupted Bear Sterns.

 

There is much online that can be researched beyond what I could possibly write. However, simplistic notions in regards to market economics lead to myriad problems.

 

Georges Bataille refuted the idea that modern people function rationally but tend towards fear and violence. Much of what you posted excludes human nature.

 

What about Congress shutting down the government? It seems as though Congress via the 'Tea Bagger' party is blackmailing the country and attempting to overthrow the government to meet the ideological demands of a few. Congress is not promoting "the general welfare" at this time. If this is treason, then the Constitution has been violated.

Edited October 4, 2013 by ralis

[Brian]

Utter nonsense and contradicted by every society in history, ralis. Heck! Watch a group of pre-schoolers or convicts or an "uncivilized" tribe in the Amazon and you see the free market spring into existence spontaneously. It is the natural way for humans to exchange personal energy and the fruits thereof. Pointing to modern corruptions (or ancient corruptions, for that matter) is like pointing to modern dietary problems as proof that eating is unnatural. Trade is just as much a part of "human nature" as greed is.

 

Your use of Bataille is telling, I think...

 

As to the current "shutdown," the proposal was to delay the individual mandate in the same fashion that it was delayed for corporations. They weren't even talking about rolling back the exemptions, waivers and supplements being given to virtually every group in a position to stop this train-wreck (17 separate executive violations of the separation of powers, mind you), just talking about treating people equally under the law. The Obama administration flatly stated that there would be no negotiation despite even left-originated opinion polls clearly showing the majority of American citizens oppose the ACA, and have from the very beginning. People don't want it and have been telling their representatives that in no uncertain terms.

 

The administration instead has taken a scorched-earth approach that would have made Sherman proud, going out of their way to make this as painful as possible. Compare the last "shutdown" to this one and pay attention to what is closed now that was open then -- it is quite revealing. Why such a hard line on forcing this down the nation's collective throat right now? Easy! It is because the negative impact is suddenly coming into view as companies let people go, reduce hours and cut benefits, and insurance companies raise deductibles & rates at the same time. People who are watching with open eyes see Cloward & Piven being put into effect.

 

My wife learned yesterday that the policy she has had for the last four years without any changes has suddenly increased more than 50% and has a higher deductible.

 

{EDITED to remove an inappropriate comment -- Brian}

Edited October 4, 2013 by Brian

[ralis]

Utter nonsense and contradicted by every society in history, ralis. Heck! Watch a group of pre-schoolers or convicts or an "uncivilized" tribe in the Amazon and you see the free market spring into existence spontaneously. It is the natural way for humans to exchange personal energy and the fruits thereof. Pointing to modern corruptions (or ancient corruptions, for that matter) is like pointing to modern dietary problems as proof that eating is unnatural. Trade is just as much a part of "human nature" as greed is.

 

Your use of Bataille is telling, I think...

 

As to the current "shutdown," the proposal was to delay the individual mandate in the same fashion that it was delayed for corporations. They weren't even talking about rolling back the exemptions, waivers and supplements being given to virtually every group in a position to stop this train-wreck (17 separate executive violations of the separation of powers, mind you), just talking about treating people equally under the law. The Obama administration flatly stated that there would be no negotiation despite even left-originated opinion polls clearly showing the majority of American citizens oppose the ACA, and have from the very beginning. People don't want it and have been telling their representatives that in no uncertain terms.

 

The administration instead has taken a scorched-earth approach that would have made Sherman proud, going out of their way to make this as painful as possible. Compare the last "shutdown" to this one and pay attention to what is closed now that was open then -- it is quite revealing. Why such a hard line on forcing this down the nation's collective throat right now? Easy! It is because the negative impact is suddenly coming into view as companies let people go, reduce hours and cut benefits, and insurance companies raise deductibles & rates at the same time. People who are watching with open eyes see Cloward & Piven being put into effect.

 

My wife learned yesterday that the policy she has had for the last four years without any changes has suddenly increased more than 50% and has a higher deductible.

 

In closing, I suggest you see a therapist (or someone) about your sado-sexual fixation. It is clearly an obsession and I think it might be unhealthy...

 

I am not going to discuss with you given that you know nothing about economics and especially free market myth. Free markets only work in small closed societies.

 

Sado-sexual fixation? That is a baseless accusation!

Edited October 4, 2013 by ralis

[joeblast]

that's the spirit, ralis. anyone who disagrees knows nothing, and you can safely ignore it...safely stay in your "self constructed" progressive cardboard box, plucked right off the shelf of the faux left-right duality-battle, ready made for general US consumer consumption!.

 

good job picking out the least important part of the post and focus on that...I dont know about you, but back when I was in grade school we'd have assignments to read a few paragraphs and pick out the main concept of it. you dont appear to have been taught that, or its simply not a useful tactic for you since the main concepts of the posts coming at you contain truth and you have no rebuttal for them.

 

sorry, even though I accepted the role of kindergarten monitor, I still have an opinion here. do I have to put in my signature that my posts and opinions thereof are only my beliefs and opinions, not representative of "the official TTBs stance" on anything at all?

 

and besides, I automatically recuse myself from playing kindergarten cop where you are concerned, since you automatically assume I am biased.

[zerostao]

Is this thread still abou the decline of the USA? If it is, I was there not long ago and the anxiety behind the eyes of virtually every person I met was palpable. People here in Germany are stressed out, worked to death and all that, but they're still grounded in the real world. Americans have lost contact to reality. They're floating, like kites without strings.

 

I don't know when it happened but I assume 9/11 played a role.

i think the 9/11 is a signifier to many about this, however some signifiers are crafted ruses of mis-direction.

from my pov from here within america, the decline and falling had begun before 9/11 event.

it will be a long slow decline and fall as america had at one time ascended to great heights,

whichever side of politics that you may find yourself on?

both political sides are culpable in the decline and fall- to the level of highest treason-and so are those who sit on the sidelines and watch the decline, with their only consideration being only,how does this affect my wallet

 

[ralis]

that's the spirit, ralis. anyone who disagrees knows nothing, and you can safely ignore it...safely stay in your "self constructed" progressive cardboard box, plucked right off the shelf of the faux left-right duality-battle, ready made for general US consumer consumption!.

 

good job picking out the least important part of the post and focus on that...I dont know about you, but back when I was in grade school we'd have assignments to read a few paragraphs and pick out the main concept of it. you dont appear to have been taught that, or its simply not a useful tactic for you since the main concepts of the posts coming at you contain truth and you have no rebuttal for them.

 

sorry, even though I accepted the role of kindergarten monitor, I still have an opinion here. do I have to put in my signature that my posts and opinions thereof are only my beliefs and opinions, not representative of "the official TTBs stance" on anything at all?

 

and besides, I automatically recuse myself from playing kindergarten cop where you are concerned, since you automatically assume I am biased.

 

By checking the like box, you are in agreement with the baseless accusation made by Brian. Sado-sexual fixation and suggesting that I need therapy? Which suggests that I have a medical/psychological problem. That is a very serious accusation. Kindergarten monitor? Is that what you think of mature adults on this site that have disagreements?

 

I chose to respond to statements made in regards to faulty beliefs about so called free markets which is neoliberal ideology which you are a proponent of.

Edited October 4, 2013 by ralis

[joeblast]

yeah, the best way to deal with people that make no sense at all is just to add them to your ignore list.

[ralis]

yeah, the best way to deal with people that make no sense at all is just to add them to your ignore list.

 

Condescending as usual. For your information as a moderator, sado-sexual is a medical term covered in the DSM.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism_and_masochism_(as_medical_terms)

[ralis]

 

 

good job picking out the least important part of the post and focus on that...I dont know about you, but back when I was in grade school we'd have assignments to read a few paragraphs and pick out the main concept of it. you dont appear to have been taught that, or its simply not a useful tactic for you since the main concepts of the posts coming at you contain truth and you have no rebuttal for them.

 

 

and besides, I automatically recuse myself from playing kindergarten cop where you are concerned, since you automatically assume I am biased.

 

What people are taught in grade school has nothing to do with in depth analysis. The OP is in regards to the myriad problems occurring here in the U.S. One problem is the economic morass which said problems will not be solved by more neoliberal policies.

 

 

In terms of education in the U.S. and government funding of. If government funding is cut or eliminated as some right wing groups demand, then only the wealthy will be able to afford education for their children. Drastic cuts will continue to erode the quality of education for poor children.

Edited October 4, 2013 by ralis

[Brian]

I am not going to discuss with you given that you know nothing about economics and especially free market myth. Free markets only work in small closed societies.

 

Sado-sexual fixation? That is a baseless accusation!

 

Again, your statement is untenable.

 

I apologize for using clinical language, ralis, and I have edited my post above to retract that comment. I would suggest, however, that you re-evaluate your use of the term "Tea Bagger" -- you clearly know the reference and use it intentionally. This is inappropriate and is in itself a violation of ToS as it is intended as an ad homenim attack, and you know it. If I were a member of the Tea Party, or even a Republican, I would be reporting you at every opportunity. Instead, I think it is just childish.

 

Might wanna rethink that whole D vs. R thing, too. It is a deception...

Edited October 4, 2013 by Brian

[ralis]

Again, your statement is untenable.

 

I apologize for using clinical language, ralis, and I have edited my post above to retract that comment. I would suggest, however, that you re-evaluate your use of the term "Tea Bagger" -- you clearly know the reference and use it intentionally. This is inappropriate and is in itself a violation of ToS as it is intended as an ad homenim attack, and you know it. If I were a member of the Tea Party, or even a Republican, I would be reporting you at every opportunity. Instead, I think it is just childish.

 

Might wanna rethink that whole D vs. R thing, too. It is a deception...

 

The term 'tea bagger' was started by the media and members of the 'tea party', not me. Persons carrying tea bags as a sign of 'tea party' allegiance. Furthermore, I carefully parse my words.

 

http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger

 

 

Edited October 4, 2013 by ralis

[zerostao]

my 2 favorite kentuckians ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eziI4h3J0Eg

[Brian]

The term 'tea bagger' was started by the media and members of the 'tea party', not me. Persons carrying tea bags as a sign of 'tea party' allegiance. Furthermore, I carefully parse my words.

 

http://theweek.com/article/index/202620/the-evolution-of-the-word-tea-bagger

 

 

 

You know better. He didn't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_bag_(sexual_act)

 

And you & I have had this same discussion before because I wanted to make sure you understood what you were saying. As you make clear, you know precisely what you are saying...

Edited October 4, 2013 by Brian

[ralis]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/04/north-carolina-gop-rep-im-taking-my-paycheck-during-shutdown-because-i-need-it/

 

North Carolina GOP Rep: I’m taking my paycheck during shutdown because I need it.

 

I guess this wife of a surgeon needs money more than everyone suffering because of this shutdown. What hypocrisy!

[soaring crane]

 

it will be a long slow decline and fall as america had at one time ascended to great heights,

 

The higher the ascension, the deeper the fall.

 

Maybe the first error is in associating height with value? Power with strength?

 

I think the USA has always been a Nation without roots and the current situation has been predicted many times, based solely on that fact. It's a logical progression. But it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[Brian]

Not quite "always" but for a very long time, yes.