The decline and eventual fall of the USA as world superpower?

[Brian]

In a nutshell, it comes down to personal energy. I believe I am responsible for my personal energy while some think they should make those decisions for me.

[joeblast]

[Brian]

LOL

[silent thunder]

System is too large to sustain balance.

It is untenable.

 

Tao is like a drawn bow...

settles in balance.

Always.

 

Adjustments coming...

[joeblast]

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/09/bad-government-policy-has-created-the-worst-inequality-in-world-history-and-it-is-destroying-our-economy.html

 

summed up,

 

"Thieves … took over the whole economy and the political system lock, stock, and barrel."

[silent thunder]

soft overcomes hard...

Edited October 7, 2013 by silent thunder

[Brian]

Following an exhaustive investigation, the overseers conclude that the problem was clearly insufficient oversight and regulation of the system...

[silent thunder]

Following an exhaustive investigation, the overseers conclude that the problem was clearly insufficient oversight and regulation of the system...

Absolutely...

 

Sorry to edit the previous post and render that awesome response obscure, but I reminded myself less is more.

[Brian]

But I liked the train story!

[ralis]

Vote for the 'Tea Bagger Party'!

 

Such intellectual luminaries as Michelle Bachmann who claims that Obama is funding Al Qaeda and the second coming is imminent.

 

 

Bachmann: Obama funding Al-Qaeda proves ‘we are in God’s End Times’

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/07/bachmann-obama-funding-al-qaeda-proves-we-are-in-gods-end-times/

 

 

Tea party hero Ben Carson: Marriage equality jeopardizes ‘everything else in the Bible’

 

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/07/tea-party-hero-ben-carson-marriage-equality-jeopardizes-everything-else-in-the-bible/

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/07/world-net-daily-obamacare-will-lead-to-genocide-just-like-hitlercare/

 

World Net Daily posts lies and distortions to make people afraid. More brainwashing!

Edited October 8, 2013 by ralis

[voidisyinyang]

disclaimer: I live in Michelle Bachmann's district.

 

She gets her support from a certain part of the district where there's a lot of military evangelical christian industrial workers - like making missles for Jesus kind of thing.

 

 

A coworker of mine worked in one of those factories - the owner leading prayers and blessing the weapons they were making, etc.

[joeblast]

Vote for the 'Tea Bagger Party'!

 

Such intellectual luminaries as Michelle Bachmann who claims that Obama is funding Al Qaeda and the second coming is imminent.

 

 

Bachmann: Obama funding Al-Qaeda proves ‘we are in God’s End Times’

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/07/bachmann-obama-funding-al-qaeda-proves-we-are-in-gods-end-times/

Does that mean you think arming foreign mercenaries is a good idea?

[eye_of_the_storm]

disclaimer: I live in Michelle Bachmann's district.

 

She gets her support from a certain part of the district where there's a lot of military evangelical christian industrial workers - like making missles for Jesus kind of thing.

 

 

A coworker of mine worked in one of those factories - the owner leading prayers and blessing the weapons they were making, etc.

 

"military evangelical christian" aka Zionism

Edited October 8, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[xor]

the owner leading prayers and blessing the weapons they were making, etc.

 

Damn that's so sick, but doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Aaron]

Does that mean you think arming foreign mercenaries is a good idea?

 

The Tea Party doesn't complain that the Bush and Bin Laden's were economically and socially entwined for decades, probably still are. Nor do they complain that Reagan armed the contras and committed treason by funneling the arms through Iran. Nope. Nor do they complain that the majority of their funding comes from the Koch brothers and other billionaires and political elites. They don't complain about the secret meeting in Palm Springs either, where the Tea Party backers met to spread their agenda. No one complained that two of the people in attendance were Supreme Court justices. No one complained that Glen Beck was there either. No one complained when they set a political agenda to open free markets, not for the sake of democracy or freedom, but so they could escape any kind of oversight. No one seemed to mind that the agencies that the Tea Party wants to shut down as being needless spending also happen to be the ones that police the Tea Party backers companies. Nope. Nor do they complain that Fox News (and Bachmann) provide no actual evidence that weapons have fallen into Al Queda's hands, but only alleges that it happened. "Some people say"... who says? They never seem to tell us that.

 

My final analysis, the Tea Party is a bunch of people who are being propelled by a media that is owned by one of the largest backers of the Tea Party, Rupert Murdoch, the news channel, in case you missed it, is Fox News. They are also accepting what Fox News tells them, even though Fox News doesn't have any journalistic integrity to speak of. The fact of the matter is most Tea Party members are backing a new government founded under the pretense of democracy, but is actually moving this country towards a fascist military industrial complex.

 

I'm not ignorant about the Tea Party, I can provide links to news articles, documentaries, and other sources that have PROVEN all of the above to be true, what can you provide me but hyperbole?

 

Aaron

Edited October 8, 2013 by Aaron

[ralis]

The Tea Party radical right is engaging in extortion by holding the debt limit hostage. If the U.S. defaults, the global financial meltdown may be worse than the 'Great Depression'. Furthermore, the credit rating of the U.S. will be severely damaged/downgraded and may never recover. The debt is for obligations already authorized by Congress and not new spending.

 

The 14th amendment is very clear on this matter.

 

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

 

SECTION 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

 

This Tea Party U.S. Rep. is oblivious to facts. The 'Affordable Care Act' is already law and this insane attempt to defund it, while extorting the entire country for political gain, is ludicrous.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/08/tea-party-leader-gop-passed-clean-defund-obamcare-and-clean-delay-obamacare-bills/

 

Tea Party Express Chair Amy Kremer said on Tuesday that Republicans in the House of Representatives had passed “clean” government funding bills to “delay Obamacare” and “defund Obamacare.”

As the government was entering the second week of a shutdown on Monday, President Barack Obama called on House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) to allow members to vote on what’s called a “clean” continuing resolution (CR), which would reopen the government without stopping the health care reform law.

“The House should hold that vote today,” the president said. “If Republicans and Speaker Boehner are saying there are not enough votes, they should prove it.”

 

While speaking with MSNBC’s Chris Jansing on Tuesday, Kremer made it clear that Republicans had a different definition of “clean.”

“President Obama keeps saying bring a CR — bring a clean CR to the floor let them vote on it,” Kremer said. “Well, my question is, why doesn’t [senate Majority Leader] Harry Reid bring the clean defund Obamacare [bill] to the floor and let the Senate vote on it? Why doesn’t he bring the clean delay Obamacare bill to the floor and let them vote on that?”

“I mean, it goes both ways,” she added. “They’re both responsible.”

Edited October 8, 2013 by ralis

[Brian]

Under what circumstances would the US government default?

[NJBob]

... but is actually moving this country towards a fascist military industrial complex...

 

Aaron

I'm wondering if many parts of the country haven't been a fascist military industrial complex since WWII? Whenever protests got close to succeeding (like in the late 60's/early 70's) the might of the government crushed the protests. People forget the Vietnam war lasted 10 years. The Iraq/Afghan wars have lasted 10 years. Has anything changed except the P.R. is much better, and the increase in freedom of expression created by the web has been neutralized by the mass media infotainment industry, which is just PR for corporate America and the prison/military/pharma/medico/industrial complex? I'm not saying I don't enjoy all the fruits of the society, the good food, good living, high tech playground we have become. I'm not even saying we are any worse than any other society in all human history, for all I know we are better. I'm just saying the machine is here, it's all powerful, and it controls every facet of our lives. Our only choice is to make the best of it.

[ralis]

Under what circumstances would the US government default?

 

If the debt ceiling is not raised. The debts are already an obligation, voted on and funded by Congress.

Edited October 9, 2013 by ralis

[Brian]

Thought you might have this common misconception.

 

This would only be the case if our current revenues were insufficient to service the debt (ie, to pay the interest and callable objects). We recently refinanced about 7.6 trillion (adding 600 billion to our load in the process) so we have some breathing room. Social Security is protected by law (as is the current debt) and by having been raided in exchange for bonds (essentially, Congress wrote IOUs...)

 

Not raising the debt limit would not result in near-term default. It would just mean the runaway spending increases would stop and we would have to start talking about legitimate reductions in spending (as opposed to the President's sequestration plan, which actually was an overall INCREASE rather than a decrease in spending).

 

Saying the country will default if the debt limit isn't increased simply isn't correct and, if it were, would be a scathing indictment of the current executive because it would be like saying "I'm going to lose my house and declare bankruptcy because I got denied for my 17th Visa card...)

Edited October 9, 2013 by Brian

[Brian]

Failed to touch on the credit rating and "law of the land" topics...

 

A few years ago, Moody's responded to a debt ceiling increase by lowering the US's credit rating. The US responded with a thinly veiled threat to shutdown Moody's if they did that again. Anyone who has paid attention to their personal credit rating knows that having too many credit accounts or too high of a credit limit relative to your revenue & assets actually counts against you, just as it should for governments.

 

By design, the House of Representatives represents the people. The Senate is supposed to represent the several States (although the national government long ago duped the people into stripping their own states of that power). The President is supposed to be chief executive officer, and commander-in-chief in times of war. The House is reelected every two years to ensure that the people can approbate or disapprobate the actions of a previous Congress in a timely fashion. Similarly, the House controls the purse-strings to give the people a mechanism whereby they have some control over the spending of their money. The Senate can either approve the House's spending measures or reject them (presumably based on State-level concerns). The President is supposed to review the constitutionality of the bills that make it to his or her desk (which was the case through Calvin Coolidge, after which Wilson turned the veto into a policy-shaping hammer, and that has largely been the case since...) As such, legislative action must always be viewed as "pending further review and modification or replacement by the next Congress."

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://nypost.com/2013/10/08/us-adults-are-dumber-than-the-average-human/

 

 

US adults are dumber than the average human

 

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

Edited October 9, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[soaring crane]

 

A few years ago, Moody's responded to a debt ceiling increase by lowering the US's credit rating. The US responded with a thinly veiled threat to shutdown Moody's if they did that again. Anyone who has paid attention to their personal credit rating knows that having too many credit accounts or too high of a credit limit relative to your revenue & assets actually counts against you, just as it should for governments.

 

There's a bit of irony to this story. The (US-based) credit agencies have historically overreacted to negative news in Europe, adding to the exaggerated impression of 'Euro-blight', while coddling their own USA.

 

They aren't objective, not by any stretch of anyone's imagination. But in the end, the US is going to suffer and become weakened from the false positive ratings whereas the EU is overcompensating for the unfairly low ratings, and making itself stronger in the process.

 

You're right in pointing out that a failure to raise the debt ceiling isn't going to throw the US into all-out default overnight, but you also qualified your statement when you wrote 'short-term'.

 

The spiral is in motion and it's going to take a miracle to get it to start turning the other direction. Like a blockage of Qi, the only way to set it truly free is to treat the entire organism. But we don't have any financial acupuncturists available, none that'll be heard, anyway.

 

I say, follow the money. Who's profiting from all this?

[ralis]

Thought you might have this common misconception.

 

 

 

 

Prove it! Not by posting hyperbole or tea party rhetoric. Provide valid analysis.

 

The 'tea bagger' right raised the debt ceiling 5 times under the Bush administration but with no silly demands.

 

Here is a list of demands from the 'tea bagger' right wing.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/09/30/2699221/21-things-republicans-demanded-shutdown-default/

 

One demand not mentioned is to eliminate a women's right to choose.

Edited October 9, 2013 by ralis

[Brian]

Prove what, and to whom?

I have read Reveille and Rules so I understand that only the radical is capable of logical thought...

I have opposed every debt ceiling increase, ralis, and I think those on "the far-right" are just as misguided and nearly as destructive as those on "the far-left." I think the real problem in this thread, though, is that some still honestly believe the struggle is between left and right. Until one sees beyond that false dichotomy, it is difficult to have a meaningful discussion.

 

EDIT: Removed some superfluous commas (spacebar and comma are too close together on my smartphone (a gratuitous self-appellation if ever I saw one, BTW...)

Edited October 9, 2013 by Brian