The decline and eventual fall of the USA as world superpower?

[Formless Tao]

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1376574

 

I wonder who just killed journalist Michael Hastings....

 

He was working on a big story regarding US government, He contacts wikileaks hours before his death. He states the FBI is after him. He dies driving a brand new Mercedes Benz. One witness says the car jacknifed. Other witnesses say they heard a massive explosion. Car is burnt to a crisp and Micheal dies. The engine and transmission is found 100 meters away from the car...

 

This is impossible for just a car crash. Michael was killed by a bomb that was planted in his engine bay, there is no other way other than an air strike that the engine and transmission can be found that far away from the car.

 

Any guesses as to who is responsible for Michaels death???

[Formless Tao]

http://mobile.news.com.au/world-news/reporter-michael-hastings-sent-panicky-email-hours-before-sudden-car-crash-death/story-fndir2ev-1226669297371

 

Update on the suspicious death of journalist Michael Hastings who was working on CIA story...

[Marblehead]

I'm not into conspiracy theories but this does seem suspicious. What is needed is proof that there was an explosion prior to his car hitting the tree. But then I would ask why so much fire in the engine compartment when the fuel tank is at the rear of the vehicle.

 

But no, I wouldn't put that beyond what the government is capable of doing. I'm just not ready to jump in yet.

[Marblehead]

A funny little side note for a chuckle:

 

When I first started cleaning my computer after each visit to the internet, Internet Explorer flashed me a message telling me to allow cookies to be stored. Guess what cookies were deleted right before I got the message. Tracking cookies, of course.

[Jetsun]

The concerning thing about the Snowdon case is that even though what he reveals directly impinges on the rights of the citizens of the US and UK the vast majority of the population of both countries don't seem too bothered about it, yet the Germans are furious about their citizens being spied on even though it affects them far less. The reason being that they have already lived under an Orwellian police state and are fully aware of the horrors and terror that system creates and don't want to go back there. So we need to wake up before its too late.

[ralis]

The concerning thing about the Snowdon case is that even though what he reveals directly impinges on the rights of the citizens of the US and UK the vast majority of the population of both countries don't seem too bothered about it, yet the Germans are furious about their citizens being spied on even though it affects them far less. The reason being that they have already lived under an Orwellian police state and are fully aware of the horrors and terror that system creates and don't want to go back there. So we need to wake up before its too late.

 

I read 'Nineteen-Eighty Four' when I was 13. Really made a lasting impression on me and now we are living it. Seems as though Snowden is the new 'Goldstein'.

 

The so called journalists are totally in support of the government on this, labeling Snowden as a leaker, traitor etc. When the media reinforces the propaganda from the state, we are no different than past/current repressive regimes.

Edited June 26, 2013 by ralis

[Jetsun]

I read 'Nineteen-Eighty Four' when I was 13. Really made a lasting impression on me and now we are living it. Seems as though Snowden is the new 'Goldstein'.

 

The so called journalists are totally in support of the government on this, labeling Snowden as a leaker, traitor etc. When the media reinforces the propaganda from the state, we are no different than past/current repressive regimes.

 

Yes I read it at school and it made a lasting impression on me, not so much at the time but recently with the whole "war on terror" scenario and gradual eroding of rights it is so similar to the book that it is scary, but on a positive note apparently the sales of 1984 have been soaring this month on Amazon.com so maybe people are becoming more aware of what is going on around them.

[eye_of_the_storm]

dual citizens... hmmm

[ion]

This thing with snowden is pretty interesting. Hes kind of becomming a hero to everyone on the planet except the US govt. I can just see the guys chuckling to themselves in Hong Kong telling him "Your free to go bra'.".

 

The US govt has the gall to say that these governments are standing in the way of justice. "Justice"??? Id like to see some justice on this one and the only way to o so would be to speed up the inevidable decline of the US government by shafting all the participants.

 

The NSA is the worlds hugest waiste of money AND as I said when it first started out, is bound to turn on its own people.

 

The problem with the patriot act, nsa and homeland security is that once on a course a thing will continue on that course until something of a greater velocity knocks it off course. When we're talking about organizations and things like NSA these things on course, like Tao, will elaborate their charecteristics and div ersify as they issue forth...they will evolve along their path according to their trait, grow, gain power and momentum and since the war on terror was actualy a bs excuse to side step and circumvent the constitution and to give more power to the US govt, it was bound to turn on the American people. Not to exclude the rest of the world but the whole thing in its manifestation was pretty obviously a way to police the rest of the world, it was that I could see that it would turn on us here in the US also.

 

This isnt even the turning on us though. I'm surprised that everyone is so shocked to hear the NSA was sying on the whole world and us.

 

When an organization is formed to have a purpose, like the NSA, then that collective, like a being or creature has a nature.

 

It is the nature of the NSA to spy and control, to imprison and take authority...Once this creature has enough power, by its own nature and in accordance with the law of nature that it will remain on course til something greater knocks it off course, and in accordance with tao it will decide that for our own good and maybe the good of the planet it should sieze total control.

 

If anything reflects the INGSOC or whatever the totalitarian govt in 1984 was called it is NSA/Homeland security system.

 

Obama has also signed several executive orders that basicly, in a state of emergency, gives the director of Homeland Security the right to take everything of use be it food fishing gear, guns, generators, fertilizers, building materiels, and medical equiptment (even bandaides and asprin), vehicles, boats and ANYTHING of use from the us people, and the director of Homeland security is the one who gets to define/decide just what exactly defines a state of emergency.

Edited June 26, 2013 by ion

[Marblehead]

Actually, Snowden has helped the president keep one of his promises. The president said that his government was going to be transparent - everything out in the open. Well, there you go.

[silent thunder]

Actually, Snowden has helped the president keep one of his promises. The president said that his government was going to be transparent - everything out in the open. Well, there you go.

Game. Set. Match!

[gendao]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J87kivkhAoY

Obama has also signed several executive orders that basicly, in a state of emergency, gives the director of Homeland Security the right to take everything of use be it food fishing gear, guns, generators, fertilizers, building materiels, and medical equiptment (even bandaides and asprin), vehicles, boats and ANYTHING of use from the us people, and the director of Homeland security is the one who gets to define/decide just what exactly defines a state of emergency.

Obama now tries to legitimize criminal wrongdoing by citing the "rule of law" as "proof" of principled behavior.

President Barack Obama says the United States is following legal channels on how to bring National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden back to the U.S. He says the administration is working with other countries to make sure "the rule of law is observed."

But, the "rule of law" was supposedly just a step up from complete tyrannical rule where every decision was made on the whim of the rulers. This system takes longer to abuse, but also actually carries far more power to abuse (or correct) in the long run..

Because that RULE is only as benevolent as the LAW and the LAWMAKERS.

And, what happens when your law is made by a bunch of NW0 lawyers and implemented by opaque secret (FISA) courts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3TapLcHJP0
Or h*ll, even the Supreme Court? Who gave a tiny handful of judges the MANDATE to determine RIGHT & WRONG for hundreds of millions of other humans??? Or to ban our communion with NATURE???

For example, what gives the US the right to BAN natural substances that have been used for medicine and spiritual growth by indigenous cultures for eons now?

U.S. law classifies any substance containing DMT as Schedule-I, meaning it has the potential to harm and offers no medical benefit.

So numerous natural power plants are banned or strictly-controlled here, yet artificial GM0 crops are not only legalized but actively promoted GLOBALLY by the US using tax dollars???

A review of 926 diplomatic cables of correspondence to and from the U.S. State Department and embassies in more than 100 countries found that State Department officials actively promoted the commercialization of specific biotech seeds, according to the report issued by Food & Water Watch, a nonprofit consumer protection group.

According to cables, U.S. diplomats were acting as surrogates for Monsanto, which is the world’s leading seed maker, in foreign companies – this after the agri-business giant paid a $1.5 million fine for allegedly bribing an Indonesian official, in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Business Practices Act of 2005.

Edited June 27, 2013 by vortex

[eye_of_the_storm]

[narveen]

That is NOT MY America that they are talking about though. My America is not a hypocritical nation. Perhaps it will rise again. Perhaps not.

 

like i said in our discussion in textual studies subforum for chapter 45, there is not just one reality but as many realities as there are individuals. therefore, there are many americas: one for you, one for snowdon, one for the us (official position), and one for china (official position). this is how i see it and it is my reality.

 

your america, unfortunately, is no longer one america but many americas, each at odds with another. once upon a time, there was only one (predominant) america: john wayne’s america, the america of good traditional values. not anymore. thanks to splitists - the atheists, the multi-culturalists, the racists (of all shades of color), the activists (all kinds) - today’s america is splintered into many parts torn from the one the world knew, the one that was the good guy against the bad guys of the world.

 

i think it is not a matter of america rising again, america hasn’t fallen yet, not this time, not now. it is still number one by a long shot. the sad thing is that i could never have imagined that a day would come when the world would applaud the other side and laugh at america and actually feel better about the presidents of russia and china than it would about the president of the united states.

 

But I will make it public here and now that I still support what Snowden did.

 

and i do not support what snowden did. my reason is based on the fact that he acted dishonourably and cheated on his pomise to his employers and betrayed the trust given to him.

 

and what is your reason for supporting snowden?

 

I am so tired of all the lies!

 

what lies? they could be your unrealistic expectations.

[Formless Tao]

 

 

Is the spirit of Geronimo re-surfacing again I wonder?

[ion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J87kivkhAoY

Obama now tries to legitimize criminal wrongdoing by citing the "rule of law" as "proof" of principled behavior.

But, the "rule of law" was supposedly just a step up from complete tyrannical rule where every decision was made on the whim of the rulers. This system takes longer to abuse, but also actually carries far more power to abuse (or correct) in the long run..

 

Because that RULE is only as benevolent as the LAW and the LAWMAKERS.

 

And, what happens when your law is made by a bunch of NW0 lawyers and implemented by opaque secret (FISA) courts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3TapLcHJP0

Or h*ll, even the Supreme Court? Who gave a tiny handful of judges the MANDATE to determine RIGHT & WRONG for hundreds of millions of other humans??? Or to ban our communion with NATURE???

 

For example, what gives the US the right to BAN natural substances that have been used for medicine and spiritual growth by indigenous cultures for eons now?

So numerous natural power plants are banned or strictly-controlled here, yet artificial GM0 crops are not only legalized but actively promoted GLOBALLY by the US using tax dollars???

As far as banning natural substances, that was the first big step in the US's attempt at world policing. The war on drugs is not only a war declared on the American people, but it gives the US some over lapping police control in countries all over the world,and gets US interests involved and influencing the politics and political structures of those countries.

[Marblehead]

like i said in our discussion in textual studies subforum for chapter 45, there is not just one reality but as many realities as there are individuals. therefore, there are many americas: one for you, one for snowdon, one for the us (official position), and one for china (official position). this is how i see it and it is my reality.

 

your america, unfortunately, is no longer one america but many americas, each at odds with another. once upon a time, there was only one (predominant) america: john wayne’s america, the america of good traditional values. not anymore. thanks to splitists - the atheists, the multi-culturalists, the racists (of all shades of color), the activists (all kinds) - today’s america is splintered into many parts torn from the one the world knew, the one that was the good guy against the bad guys of the world.

 

i think it is not a matter of america rising again, america hasn’t fallen yet, not this time, not now. it is still number one by a long shot. the sad thing is that i could never have imagined that a day would come when the world would applaud the other side and laugh at america and actually feel better about the presidents of russia and china than it would about the president of the united states.

Valid these things you have said. I shall not comment.

 

 

and i do not support what snowden did. my reason is based on the fact that he acted dishonourably and cheated on his pomise to his employers and betrayed the trust given to him.

 

and what is your reason for supporting snowden?

It doesn't matter that his employers lied to him furst? The job was supposed to be spying on suspected terrorists. Ended up being a job of spying and collecting as much data as possible on every American; the law abiders as well as the criminals. We all are being put in the same basket - potential criminals. We have become guilty until proven innocent.

 

 

what lies? they could be your unrealistic expectations.

Most of what Snowden revealed was that part of the Patriot Act that our government said they were going to stop doing a few years ago.

 

The Director of NSA said that the spying has prevented over twenty terrorist plots. My question is: Where are the arrests? They don't exist. They never existed. Spain and France does a better job at catching suspected terrorists than we do. Why didn't they investigate the Boston Bombers? They had numerous signals that they were terrorists.

 

Did you notice how quickly the IRS's spending Millions of tax dollars on parties got swept under the rug?

 

Maybe I am being unrealistic expecting my government to tell me the truth. Well, in fact, it is obvious that I am delusional.

 

My government is no longer "for the people" and it is getting more at "against the people". The wealthy and government against the rest of us. Keep the wealthy rich, keep the power out of the hands of the people. That was pre-WWII in Germany.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Marblehead

[C T]

Anyone heard/seen Porter Stansberry's "The End of America"?

Edited June 29, 2013 by C T

[Apech]

I think you American's should cheer up. As a Brit I know how painful it is to be an ex world power but hey there's life after world dominance you know. You gave the world Kentucky Fried Chicken, Cola and Marlborough Lights which must be a good thing. So you monitor everybody's emails ... imagine the poor soul who has read all that junk about penis enlargement ... the NSA must be full of goggle eyes insomniacs who sit up all night twittering and tweeting. Give them a break.

 

Snowdon doesn't like PRISM ... he'll like PRISON even less that's for sure. What I don't get is why anyone is surprised by all this spying ... didn't we know they did this anyway? Hey maybe its a false flag double bluff diversion from something even more nasty. Let him off too, don't chase him from Hong Kong to Russia to Ecuador ... give him amnesty is somewhere nice and forget about it.

[Marblehead]

Snowdon doesn't like PRISM ... he'll like PRISON even less that's for sure. What I don't get is why anyone is surprised by all this spying ... didn't we know they did this anyway? Hey maybe its a false flag double bluff diversion from something even more nasty. Let him off too, don't chase him from Hong Kong to Russia to Ecuador ... give him amnesty is somewhere nice and forget about it.

Yeah, well, now Washington is trying to downplay the importance they put on it when if first happened. The president just called him a "hacker". Why? Because "hacker" now-a-days has negative connotations. They are trying to downplay their failure at getting China and Russia to give him up.

 

The president said he wasn't going to scramble jets just to get him. Well, NO SHIT!!!! Destroy Moscow's airport? What an insane thought. Just because someone proved to the people of the world that the US government lies?

 

I agree. Just let him fade away. And the government should start fixing its problems. And stop telling other countries how to fix their problems until after we have fixed our own. Stop being a fuckin' hypocrite!

[narveen]

It doesn't matter that his employers lied to him furst?

 

i don’t believe his employers lied to him. his employers, if i am to find fault with them, was sloppy in screening him as a suitable hire.

 

based on information i have from watching the news, snowdon practically walked into the job right off the street and had access to sensitive information. ok, so he had a record of being in the military, worked for the CIA and previous service with the NSA, but they were all short stints here and there and no evidence of steady dedicated service to his country. not by my reckoning. with such a shoddy hiring policy in place, i am surprised that the KGB and the Chinese have not already planted moles in the nsa.

 

so, what we have in snowdon is the wrong guy in the right place to pull down uncle sam’s pants.

 

The job was supposed to be spying on suspected terrorists. Ended up being a job of spying and collecting as much data as possible on every American; the law abiders as well as the criminals. We all are being put in the same basket - potential criminals. We have become guilty until proven innocent.

 

 

whatever snowdon’s stated job description was, it was not the forming of moral judgments on the data system he was working on. when he realized the potential of the system, his response was telling. it wasn’t about changing america because even a fool knows it can’t be done on an impulse. it was also not about protecting fellow americans. it’s has become fashionable these days to shame and pull down governments. snowdon’s caper, to my mind, is not different from jane fonda’s in vietnam. and she is still paying for it.

 

i suppose, as an activist, snowdon felt that he had a moral obligation to follow his own conscience and break rank with his government. he should but according to the rules of american society. by acting the way he did – without regard to terms of his employment and rule of law – he essentially and unilaterally revoked his membership in american society and turned rogue. a rogue bee is not part of the hive, a hero is.

 

Most of what Snowden revealed was that part of the Patriot Act that our government said they were going to stop doing a few years ago.

 

The Director of NSA said that the spying has prevented over twenty terrorist plots. My question is: Where are the arrests? They don't exist. They never existed. Spain and France does a better job at catching suspected terrorists than we do. Why didn't they investigate the Boston Bombers? They had numerous signals that they were terrorists.

 

snowdon is driven by disaffection for the government. one needs to be objective in assessing his motives. as such, i would not take his view that the us is a police state with a KGB-style apparatus placing the us population in a national stockade for political control.

 

building the data storage system, like the atom bomb project, is a national security undertaking. the manhattan project was top secret. the nsa data center in Utah is not, and americans with snowdon’s activist sentiments have been publicising and railing against it in the public media for years. but americans don’t care because they trust their government.

 

like the manhattan project, the nsa data gathering system is designed by american scientists. you don’t think those guys – most likely upstanding mature people with wife and kids and love the american life - would be alarmed and blew the whistle then if they were recruited to build a monstrous apparatus with evil intent against the american people?

 

Maybe I am being unrealistic expecting my government to tell me the truth. Well, in fact, it is obvious that I am delusional.

 

you are not delusional. snowdon and his ilk are.

 

My government is no longer "for the people" and it is getting more at "against the people". The wealthy and government against the rest of us. Keep the wealthy rich, keep the power out of the hands of the people. That was pre-WWII in Germany.

 

like i said, one needs to be objective and, above all, realistic. social systems are what they are but it is we who have built them.

 

long before snowdon, the unabomber was raising the alarm publishing his manifesto and setting off bombs to get attention from americans to deal with the evil system. no one called him a hero and he is still rotting in jail without parole. and now that his vision of this monstrous system has become reality, how come no one is campaigning for a presidential pardon for Ted Kaczynski?

 

a social system is what it is. if you want to protect it and manage it for all the digits of society, you need the technology to identify and track everyone of them. you like goggle search to find stuff all over the world. the nsa also like the same capability to find any errant digit in the national mix in a second after hitting “enter”! the only way to stay invisible is go amish – don’t use any phone, be jobless, use only cash and live close to the ground.

 

the evil is not the government. the evil is our way of life,as defined by the system – namely, us.

 

[Songtsan]

everybody has superpower. If you say this too, then we are next best friends.

[Marblehead]

the evil is not the government. the evil is our way of life,as defined by the system – namely, us.

 

I don't want to argue with you this morning but I do want you to know that I have read your post.

 

Yes, we have a different view of the importance of what has happened here. That's okay.

 

I will agree with your final statement here though and I have said the same thing myself. We, the people get what we deserve. Now we (the majority of Americans) don't trust the government and the government doesn't trust us.

[Formless Tao]

http://news.sky.com/story/1109739/snowden-spying-claims-us-bugged-eu-offices

 

It seems these new claims of the US spying on Europe offices is making matters worse for the US. As each day goes by and each extra leak that Edward Snowden releases it seems that more and more countries are asking the US for a full explanation.

 

So far, China, Hong Kong, Russia, South Africa, UK and now the EU. Im sure more will follow.

 

Julian Assange believes that Snowden has more information to leak. If this is the case it seems the US is piling up unhappy enemnies and allies.

 

It seems to me that this leaking is slowly turning the world against the US.

 

Who knows maybe the more Snowden leaks the more it may even help Julian Assanges case in Europe. ..

[Formless Tao]

http://m.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/snowden-has-much-more-info-says-assange-20130628-2p26p.html

 

Assange on Snowden having much more intelligence to leak...