Love Shys, Involuntary Celibates, True Forced Loneliness, etc.

[Earl Grey]

9 minutes ago, gendao said:

^ Right, but all those anecdotes still confirm incel theory.

If a guy is tall or good-looking, but has a small dick or sux in bed...then his chick will still bail once she finds out.

The girl who says that model bros are too self-obsessed...is dating "down" now only after having been burned by her first picks too many times.  Again, Alpha Fux got first pick.

I also agree that being uninhibited, confident, secure in their own skin, fun, funny (conveying social IQ), cool, and outgoing can compensate for a lot, too.  I have definitely seen short Asian PUAs who were able to well outscore oversized physical specimens due to this.

 

For one public example, there is YouTube rapper/entertainer Timothy DeLaGhetto would probably never get swiped online...but has done quite well with some ladies because he is a talented showman.

So I'm not saying people can't ever overachieve.  Just that your hardware still definitely matters and the struggle is real (as you can see with all the direct quotes I posted).  Just because some "overcame" it...doesn't mean it wasn't there.  As for every overachiever, there are still tons of slackers who get the same or better results without even trying simply by virtue of their physiology.

 

Yeah, like I said, we were the outliers, and I probably should have said that there is indeed racism in many instances. 

 

I actually got lots of dates when I had OKCupid before, surprisingly, and the common thing I heard was, "You're not the typical Asian guy or even the typical guy on OKC." 

 

Strictly speaking, most of my experience dating has been in coastal North American cities in the west and then abroad with other expatriate gals or backpackers, so I have some outlier data as well. 

[gendao]

15 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Strictly speaking, most of my experience dating has been in coastal North American cities in the west and then abroad with other expatriate gals or backpackers, so I have some outlier data as well. 

Oh yea, location also makes a HUGE, and I mean WORLDLY, difference too (also acknowledged in incel theory)!

LA is actually a relatively great place in the US for meeting hot chicks...but also a hard partying scene where coke is like candy, lol.

Expat girls abroad are also about the finest, highest-quality, and most open around...

 

On my trips abroad, I was meeting and easily starting to date expatting girls all in the 7-10 range.  Problem of course is you're often ships passing in the night...and so lack much time.  One had even pulled me into the bathroom for a fvck in the loo...but I regretfully had to decline because I had explosive diarrhea brewing in my bloated stomach at the time, lol.  Not to mention had another date already set.  So, I was not about to start shaking the Coke can at that point!  But yea, I would have sexual opportunities with modelesque knockouts in just weeks outside of the US...that I never had in my entire lifetime WITHIN the US, lol!  There was simply no comparison.

Edited February 16, 2020 by gendao

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, gendao said:

Oh yea, location also makes a HUGE, and I mean WORLDLY, difference too (also acknowledged in incel theory)!

LA is actually a relatively great place in the US for meeting hot chicks...but also a hard partying scene where coke is like candy, lol.

Expat girls abroad are also about the finest and most open around.

 

On my trips abroad, I was meeting and easily starting to date expatting girls all in the 7-10 range.  Problem of course is you're often ships passing in the night...and so lack much time.  One had even pulled me into the bathroom for a fvck in the loo...but I regretfully had to decline because I had explosive diarrhea brewing in my bloated stomach at the time, lol.  So, I was not about to start shaking the Coke can at that point!  But yea, I would have sexual opportunities with modelesque knockouts in just weeks outside of the US...that I never had in my entire lifetime WITHIN the US, lol!  There was simply no comparison.

 

Exactly. But even when in the west coast and in the east coast, there were noticeable differences. 

 

Okay, we've opened a can of worms, so let's use a few other personal examples. 

 

The L.A. girls to me were 9s and 10s if you looked at their physical appearance, as were Miami girls. But their personalities could range from 2 to negatives. I suspect the negative score for personalities is also a big issue with incels and why they are not attractive. 

 

I've dated approximately 3 California girls in the cities of San Francisco, Los Angeles, and San Diego, where I lived in various points of my life. I also could have done much worse--most of those stories are better saved for a Dao Bums meetup at a pub because the alcohol will be necessary to toast to leaving the ludicrous lunatic ladies. The environment definitely shaped them and their values.

 

The women I dated in the Midwest (notice I am saying "women" rather than "girls") were interested in me because of what I do and what I believe. Likewise, the expat women liked me because I wasn't the usual dating pool, and the backpacker girls (not expats, just passersby) were already a lot more open in general since everything could be left behind before going home. The environment changed a lot of their existing biases and paradigms. 

 

I was chatting with some friends from Switzerland about incels a while back, and he couldn't believe that they were a thing because he thought it was just an Internet joke. As they travel a lot, they were surprised that people are so bitter about not having sex or dating, because to them, they were able to date and have sex as a side effect of being who they are. These Swiss folks by the way are a mix of Vietnamese, Senegalese, and German-Swiss gentlemen who have their own businesses that let them travel, one as an educator, two as logistics managers. How they meet women is just a matter of the work they do and meeting people through happenstance rather than going out and actively seeking people. 

 

There are times I've had to seek and there are times when the women just came my way. The time I did feel desperation was when I was going through severe depression and grief when my father died, so that I feel was more of the reason women turned away from me. Incels probably need to do a lot more personal work and understand that one rejection or a few doesn't speak for all women. 

[gendao]

^ Again, Europe is an entirely different (and worlds better) ballgame for men.

 

The US is now jumping the shark for men.  Forward this story to your skeptical international buds...and ask them to imagine if this could possibly ever happen in their country?

Quote

Polyamorous Florida woman with 4 boyfriends is pregnant

Who’s your daddy?

A polyamorous woman in Florida with four partners is pregnant, and says despite sharing her bed with her many lovers, she’s certain of who the father is.

Tory Ojeda, 20, lives with three of her four partners in their Jacksonville, Fla., home. Marc, Travis, Ethan and Christopher take turns spending time with Ojeda, “swapping in and out” of her bed each night, she tells Barcroft Media.

The household’s love story began three years ago when Ojeda met Marc, 18, in high school. Two months later, she opened things up with Travis, 23 — to whom she is now engaged. Later, she brought Ethan, 22, and Christopher, 22, into the fold.And despite her plans to get married to Travis, Ojeda said he’s not the father of her baby girl, due in February.“Chris is the biological father,” she says. “We just know that because of timing and when the approximate conception date was. Based off of the approximate conception day, we had been on vacation. So it was only us.”

But for the soon-to-be family of six, those are just minor details.

“We’re all raising the baby together — so everyone’s Dad,” Ojeda says. “We’re all very, very excited to be raising a baby together.”

It won’t be without its complications, though. The group says they’ve dealt with bouts of jealousy over the years. It was especially hard for Marc and Travis to accept newcomers Ethan and Christopher at first. But Ethan says they talked it out and are all on good terms now.

And there’s the matter of sharing: Ojeda says it gets pretty exhausting having to please four different men under the same roof. She’s actually encouraged her boyfriends to pursue other love interests.

“Dividing time and figuring out schedules between all five people and making sure everyone feels included, it’s kind of difficult,” she says. “I’d like to not be the only woman in the relationship. That would definitely be nice.”

When the baby comes, having multiple parents in the house might be a benefit, says Christopher, who’s looking forward to sharing the responsibilities of fatherhood with the three other men in his relationship.

“There is a lot of support between all of us dads and it’s something we can tag team,” he says. “We always joke about the idea of getting [stuck] in an endless loop of ‘Go ask your dad.’ ”

Their daughter will surely appreciate the humor.

The rest of the group’s family is coming around to their unconventional setup, they say.

“At the very beginning, I know my mother and father were hesitant about it,” Christopher says. “Her main concern was that she didn’t like the idea of me having a partner who was not fulfilled with me alone.”

4 dudes voluntarily sharing 1 woman...and are going to raise her baby together?  Just let that sink in for a minute...a 1/4 group timeshare of a vagina is literally the BEST EACH CAN GET in 2019 USA, right now!  And let's be honest, she's not even exactly eye candy, either...  Granted, this is a very extreme example...but the tail ends do help define where the belly of the curve lies.

Edited February 16, 2020 by gendao

[Earl Grey]

13 minutes ago, gendao said:

^ Again, Europe is an entirely different (and worlds better) ballgame for men.

 

The US is now jumping the shark for men.  Forward this story to your skeptical international buds...and ask them to imagine if this could possibly ever happen in their country?

4 dudes voluntarily sharing 1 woman...and are going to raise her baby together?  Just let that sink in for a minute...a 1/4 group timeshare of a vagina is literally the BEST EACH CAN GET in 2019 USA, right now!  And let's be honest, she's not even exactly eye candy, either...  Granted, this is a very extreme example...but the tail ends do help define where the belly of the curve is.

Well, now, this is a surprise.

 

Toni, who lives in Europe, might be better to comment on it.

 

Love the belly pun ya did there.

[Toni]

Oh god, Europe, or at least southern Europe is pure hell. Hypergamy at its max, specially among the local women. Foreigners living here are a little different. Our latinas can open their legs more easily lol. It is not uncommon for men here to have sex only with foreigners, despite they being a minority. Local women are extremely picky and demanding.

Incels are right about how important looks are for dating, also in Europe. Don't think euro women are different, no fucking way!

[liminal_luke]

If you´re relating to women in terms of their looks, you´re likely to meet women who relate to you in terms of your looks.  If not, not.  

Edited February 16, 2020 by liminal_luke

[ilumairen]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

If you´re relating to women in terms of their looks, you´re likely to meet women who relate to you in terms of your looks.  If not, not.  

 

Interesting how this works, isn't it?

[liminal_luke]

35 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Interesting how this works, isn't it?

 

These days they call it incel theory.  In my heyday they called it a taste of your own medicine.

[Toni]

Women want men for 2 reasons mainly: their tool if it is good or they wallet if it is big

[Earl Grey]

3 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

These days they call it incel theory.  In my heyday they called it a taste of your own medicine.

 

When I was growing up, we thought being the nice guy and not the asshole jock got the girl based off of teen movies from the 90s. In college, I realized many "nice guys" are actually ticking time bombs who are passive-aggressive because of these expectations, and jocks weren't assholes, but jovial fellows who were confident enough to say hello and communicate interest. 

 

Being in the study rooms to hear the things said by these so-called nice guys was alarming, and sharing a dorm with jocks showed that while they were loud and crazy, they were actually pretty friendly, nice, and fun. They had things they liked to do and were fine if cheerleaders wouldn't go out with them because they played sports, had bros, and did fun things together like the shooting range or paintball. 

 

What do incels do? Whine on forums all day and night and blame women. What did college "nice guys" do? Whine to each other but rarely did they have hobbies besides studying and comparing GPAs. 

[Earl Grey]

9 hours ago, Toni said:

Women want men for 2 reasons mainly: their tool if it is good or they wallet if it is big

 

False. 

 

I knew a guy with an 11" tool from New Zealand who scared women away. 

 

I know a guy with a big wallet and who spends a lot who is still a virgin as he approaches 50. 

 

I know people who are well-endowed and have a lot of disposable income, but can't talk to women or get them to go out with them. 

 

Likewise, I know a guy who is not tall and is often hustling, but he has no problem meeting people online and offline. 

 

It's always excuses and not understanding women or understanding how one projects oneself--quality of what you give directly reflects what responds to you. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Earl Grey

[ilumairen]

6 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

These days they call it incel theory.  In my heyday they called it a taste of your own medicine.

 

There is much here which seems paradoxical and/or nonsensical to me.

 

For example the whole hypergamy narrative while pining for a past in which women were considered of a lesser class/caste, and "hypergamy" would have been in it's heyday. 

 

Or the longing for attractive women to "spread their legs," while once again looking nostalgically at a time when a woman would have been considered "ruined" for doing so.

 

What a bunch of hooey...

 

[ilumairen]

5 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

When I was growing up, we thought being the nice guy and not the asshole jock got the girl based off of teen movies from the 90s. In college, I realized many "nice guys" are actually ticking time bombs who are passive-aggressive because of these expectations, and jocks weren't assholes, but jovial fellows who were confident enough to say hello and communicate interest. 

 

Being in the study rooms to hear the things said by these so-called nice guys was alarming, and sharing a dorm with jocks showed that while they were loud and crazy, they were actually pretty friendly, nice, and fun. They had things they liked to do and were fine if cheerleaders wouldn't go out with them because they played sports, had bros, and did fun things together like the shooting range or paintball. 

 

What do incels do? Whine on forums all day and night and blame women. What did college "nice guys" do? Whine to each other but rarely did they have hobbies besides studying and comparing GPAs. 

 

More than two decades ago now, I worked with a man who loved to say nice guys finish last.

 

He was a drunk who could not control his bladder when drunk and vomited and peed on his girlfriend.. Yeah, he ended up finishing last and losing his girlfriend, but it wasn't because he was a nice guy. 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

When I was growing up, we thought being the nice guy and not the asshole jock got the girl based off of teen movies from the 90s. In college, I realized many "nice guys" are actually ticking time bombs who are passive-aggressive because of these expectations, and jocks weren't assholes, but jovial fellows who were confident enough to say hello and communicate interest. 

 

 

I dunno, Earl.  Are "nice guys" passive aggressive time bombs?  Jocks jovial confident fellows?  Seems to me this way of characterizing people skips over a lot of nuance and variety.  Certainly there are many nice "nice guys" and plenty of asshole jocks -- and vice versa.  An outgoing confident personality helps when it comes to socializing, no question, but all sorts of guys get into fulfiling relationships.  Bookish asian "nerds" take heart -- there are plenty of women who´d like to meet someone just like you.

[ilumairen]

7 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

False. 

 

I knew a guy with an 11" tool from New Zealand who scared women away. 

 

I know a guy with a big wallet and who spends a lot who is still a virgin as he approaches 50. 

 

I know people who are well-endowed and have a lot of disposable income, but can't talk to women or get them to go out with them. 

 

Likewise, I know a guy who is not big and is often hustling, but he has no problem meeting people online and offline. 

 

The biggest "male slut" I knew back in the day straight up told women he was "hung like a field mouse." And according to any accounts I heard, he was. They weren't shared as an indication of displeasure, but generally something more akin to awe. Apparently they found sexual explorations with him quite satisfactory.

[SirPalomides]

As a bookish Asian nerd, hear hear.

[SirPalomides]

..

Edited February 16, 2020 by SirPalomides

[SirPalomides]

...

Edited February 16, 2020 by SirPalomides

[Earl Grey]

Just now, liminal_luke said:

 

I dunno, Earl.  Are "nice guys" passive aggressive time bombs?  Jocks jovial confident fellows?  Seems to me this way of characterizing people skips over a lot of nuance and variety.  Certainly there are many nice "nice guys" and plenty of asshole jocks -- and vice versa.  An outgoing confident personality helps when it comes to socializing, no question, but all sorts of guys get into fulfiling relationships.  Bookish asian "nerds" take heart -- there are plenty of women who´d like to meet someone just like you.

 

I said "Many", not "All", LL.  

 

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/nice-guys-dont-have-to-finish-last/

 

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/how-to-be-assertive/

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I dunno, Earl.  Are "nice guys" passive aggressive time bombs?  Jocks jovial confident fellows?  Seems to me this way of characterizing people skips over a lot of nuance and variety.  Certainly there are many nice "nice guys" and plenty of asshole jocks -- and vice versa.  An outgoing confident personality helps when it comes to socializing, no question, but all sorts of guys get into fulfiling relationships.  Bookish asian "nerds" take heart -- there are plenty of women who´d like to meet someone just like you.

 

Hell Lukey, I married one.. unless of course we go with Filipino not counting. 

[Earl Grey]

9 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Hell Lukey, I married one.. unless of course we go with Filipino not counting. 

 

I've heard the argument about Filipinos not counting, and for years, I couldn't understand why. 

 

Turns out that the biggest proponents of this are both American history and Filipinos trying to find a stereotype that makes them look better than others.

 

After the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, Filipinos were classified as Mongoloids, so they managed to get around the Asian quotas that prevented East Asians from coming into the US, and they ran with it and came in the 1920s. 

 

In the 1990s, the East Asians basically said Indians, South Asians in general, and Southeast Asians who aren't Vietnamese, Cambodian, or Laotian, aren't considered "Asian" because they measured Asianness by chopsticks, Hanzi/Kanji, and other superficial nonsense by, frankly speaking, Asian Americans who knew nothing at all about Asian cultures or even set foot in the motherland. 

 

The Filipinos then argued they were Pacific Islanders because they didn't want to be part of the "small and weak" Asian stereotype and wanted to belong to "big and strong warrior" stereotype associated with them.

 

When it was explained to me in the Asian American studies departments of UCLA and UC Berkeley, I pretty much concluded I was no longer associating with the Asian American subcultures at all (and I really wasn't--I was a TCK who has very deep exposure to my Chinese and Filipino heritage having lived in both countries). 

 

Obviously not all of them believe that, but there were enough of the group perpetuating misinformation for self-interests just as much as people who didn't know any better saying nonsense. 

 

Whenever people in Manila encounter a Fil-Am saying, "Oh, I'm a Pacific Islander", everyone will look at the Fil-Am with bemusement at best and scorn at worst because not a single person here believes that they are Pacific Islanders or even consider for a moment that they are not Asians. 

 

...and yet, Americans lump all Asians from South Asia to East Asia to Southeast Asia with Pacific Islanders in official demographics, hence: APA: Asian Pacific American (which excludes South Asians).

 

All right, enough going off topic.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Earl Grey

[Earl Grey]

7 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

The biggest "male slut" I knew back in the day straight up told women he was "hung like a field mouse." And according to any accounts I heard, he was. They weren't shared as an indication of displeasure, but generally something more akin to awe. Apparently they found sexual explorations with him quite satisfactory.

 

There was an old BBC article I read saying that the smallest average sized country was India, but a caveat said that "size doesn't matter, it's what you do with it, and it was clear men in that country were doing a lot considering that they have the second largest population in the world after China" and if I found it, it would amuse us all. 

 

Oh wait, here it is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6161691.stm

[SirPalomides]

It’s old fashioned snobbery of the “Sinosphere”. If you don’t use Chinese characters and adopt some kind of Confucianism you must be a barbarian. Of course it’s true that many loudmouth Asian-Americans know very little about the culture they brag about. It’s a lot like Irish Americans who equate Irishness with wearing tacky green shit and getting stupid drunk but can’t name a single Yeats poem or even a decent drinking song.

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

It’s old fashioned snobbery of the “Sinosphere”. If you don’t use Chinese characters and adopt some kind of Confucianism you must be a barbarian. Of course it’s true that many loudmouth Asian-Americans know very little about the culture they brag about. It’s a lot like Irish Americans who equate Irishness with wearing tacky green shit and getting stupid drunk but can’t name a single Yeats poem or even a decent drinking song.

 

My friend from Kansas was unfortunate enough to get serious Orange County culture shock when he went to UC Irvine for a year before transferring to USC.

 

He told me there was this game they played, "Guess what kind of Asian" and some guys would look at someone passing by and guess if they were Japanese, Chinese, Korean, or Vietnamese.  

 

As he didn't know it was just an Asian American thing, he guessed the next white-skinned dude was Slovenian and the next was German, then the next was Scandinavian. The other guys gave him weird looks because my friend didn't seem to get that it was just an "Asian thing" and not an international thing.

 

Bah. Enough talking about west coast Asian Americans, especially from Orange County.