ho shou wu

[Lozen]

Okay, so Paul Bergner mentioned on the herb list a while ago that he had a client who used ho shou wu pills...she was in her 70s and did not have a single grey hair. While I don't have a huge problem with white hair yet, I do get one occassionally every week or so (though it's usually brown at the root), and I'd like to deal with it before I get all depressed about it and have to spend tons of money on my hair. I read that it was tonifying, which I need anyway, but was wondering if anybody has more info on it. I'll do some research too to make sure that it won't screw me up in some other way.

[Spectrum]

Hey bro i remember seeing a thread here on TB about that...

 

Yin Tonifying?

 

Sp

[yuanqi]

Okay, so Paul Bergner mentioned on the herb list a while ago that he had a client who used ho shou wu pills...she was in her 70s and did not have a single grey hair. While I don't have a huge problem with white hair yet, I do get one occassionally every week or so (though it's usually brown at the root), and I'd like to deal with it before I get all depressed about it and have to spend tons of money on my hair. I read that it was tonifying, which I need anyway, but was wondering if anybody has more info on it. I'll do some research too to make sure that it won't screw me up in some other way.

 

 

He Shou Wu

properties in TCM are bitter, sweet, astringent, slightly warm

enters the liver and kidney

the key characteristics are nourishing the blood and yin, preserves the essence

 

the main contraindications are for those with loose stools or significant dampness or phlegm

this means that you would probably have long term spleen qi xu (spleen qi deficiency) as the spleen is what causes loose stools most of the time and hates dampness there for that is the pathogenic factor that affects it, long term dampness can create phlegm.

 

although alot of people have spleen qi xu the herb itself is used quite often anyway unless you had a really chronic problem. the herb itself has some toxic properties that has some adverse effects but for most its ok especially when used in the doses for tea pills or tablets.

 

its in the herbal formula shou wu pian, or shou wu san. alot of people have good results with it as long as there are no problems already with the patient that would containdicate giving it to them. hope this helps.

 

yuanqi

[Lozen]

Thanks! I do have some dampness, but I think if it got significantly worse because of the pills I would notice... and it's never a problem in the ridiculously dry desert summer heat... I've had deficient blood/yin for as long as I can remember, and I've used tonics for short periods of time, cooking with astragulas, rhemmania and...what was the other one, I forget...

[yuanqi]

Thanks! I do have some dampness, but I think if it got significantly worse because of the pills I would notice... and it's never a problem in the ridiculously dry desert summer heat... I've had deficient blood/yin for as long as I can remember, and I've used tonics for short periods of time, cooking with astragulas, rhemmania and...what was the other one, I forget...

 

 

your welcome. yeah you would notice i am sure, just pay attention to how your body feels and reacts after a while and make sure no symptoms get worse. but dont go out and eat alot of damp or greasy food either. LOL keep everything the same as you take the pills so you can be sure if you get worse that it is in fact the pills. and since it nourishes the blood and yin that would help overall with that as well.

[Lozen]

codenopsis, that's the other one i cooked with...

 

so is ho shou wu the same as fo ti?

[yuanqi]

codenopsis, that's the other one i cooked with...

 

so is ho shou wu the same as fo ti?

 

yeah, i almost forgot that name til i read it. LOL it sounded familiar and i had to look it up in my materia medica but its not under that name. but yes its is in fact the same as he shou wu.

[Lozen]

Sorry, my background is in Western herbalism! But I have fo-ti pills...by Solaray...610 mg per pill, and they recommend two or three capsules twice a day. Any idea how many mg are in Shou Wu Pien? It looks like it's only 250 mg per pill (in my cursory web search), but I'm not sure how many pills are recommended. When I was taking buplureum, or some kind of Chinese pills my acupuncturist recommended, I think it was like 8 tiny pills or something! Also, I wonder if the quality betw. Solaray and the good Chinese pills is the same. Part of me thinks an herb is an herb, and Solaray has a fairly good reputation, and another part of me wants it to be authentic, with Chinese writing on the box.

[yuanqi]

Sorry, my background is in Western herbalism! But I have fo-ti pills...by Solaray...610 mg per pill, and they recommend two or three capsules twice a day. Any idea how many mg are in Shou Wu Pien? It looks like it's only 250 mg per pill (in my cursory web search), but I'm not sure how many pills are recommended. When I was taking buplureum, or some kind of Chinese pills my acupuncturist recommended, I think it was like 8 tiny pills or something! Also, I wonder if the quality betw. Solaray and the good Chinese pills is the same. Part of me thinks an herb is an herb, and Solaray has a fairly good reputation, and another part of me wants it to be authentic, with Chinese writing on the box.

 

 

its hard to say how many milligrams are in the pills actually. the formulas i have are either in chinese (teapills, they are the really small pellets) those call for 8 pills 3 times a day for alot of prescriptions. the actual pian(tablets) call for 2-3 or 3-5 most of the time. the only weights that come on the bottles i get are 40 grams per bottle of 100 tablets. its just most of the time with the true chinese patent formulas that we prescribe, that you use the indicated doses on the bottles, unless of course we choose otherwise and write the prescription different. so it all varies really on the patient but whats on the bottle works most of the time for us. only problem is the brands i buy that are quality dont have any breakdown of milligrams just what herbs are used. the text books i have on herbal formulas sometimes goes into the amount of each. the main thing i have to know is how many grams in decoctions as i am not going to hand roll the teapills or press the pills in the future. LOL

Edited March 13, 2007 by yuanqi

[agharta]

My hair started turning gray when I was 25. Then I went all-raw. I haven't seen a gray hair on my head since. This is a usual thing when someone goes all raw. I'm still about 95% raw.

[Lozen]

My hair started turning gray when I was 25. Then I went all-raw. I haven't seen a gray hair on my head since. This is a usual thing when someone goes all raw. I'm still about 95% raw.

 

When I was vegan and mostly raw was when my hair started falling out. I guess it depends on your constitution.

[thaddeus]

Sorry, my background is in Western herbalism! But I have fo-ti pills...by Solaray...610 mg per pill, and they recommend two or three capsules twice a day. Any idea how many mg are in Shou Wu Pien? It looks like it's only 250 mg per pill (in my cursory web search), but I'm not sure how many pills are recommended.

Couple notes here..and Lozen, i know you this already..it's important to distinguish 'extract' from ground up powder. Sometimes these herbal caps grind up the herb and it's not very potent. I think with he shou wu, there is a difference between the prepared (boiled in black beans IIRC) and the raw herb. Many of us here reported negative effects from taking extracts of the raw herb.

T

[yuanqi]

Couple notes here..and Lozen, i know you this already..it's important to distinguish 'extract' from ground up powder. Sometimes these herbal caps grind up the herb and it's not very potent. I think with he shou wu, there is a difference between the prepared (boiled in black beans IIRC) and the raw herb. Many of us here reported negative effects from taking extracts of the raw herb.

T

 

 

yes when speaking of he shou wu the normal meaning is processed fleeceflower root as the name he shou wu indicates the prepared product, the non prepared version is sheng he shou wu which indicates the actual fleeceflower root. the unprepared form isnt a tonifying herb. usually the unprepared form is almost always used to moisten the bowels.

Edited March 13, 2007 by yuanqi

[agharta]

Well, Lozen, if your hair was falling out, you were probably eating the wrong things. Veganism is almost impossible to sustain long-term, in my experience. It's foolish to talk trash about an all-raw or mostly-raw diet. Wild animals never have crooked teeth or cavities. Many humans do.

[thaddeus]

Wild animals never have crooked teeth or cavities. Many humans do.

How do you know that about wild animals?

T

[Lozen]

Well, Lozen, if your hair was falling out, you were probably eating the wrong things. Veganism is almost impossible to sustain long-term, in my experience. It's foolish to talk trash about an all-raw or mostly-raw diet. Wild animals never have crooked teeth or cavities. Many humans do.

 

I wasn't talking trash--I said it depends on one's constitution. I've noticed this when visiting all-raw communes. Some people look great and some people look a step away from death.

 

Couple notes here..and Lozen, i know you this already..it's important to distinguish 'extract' from ground up powder. Sometimes these herbal caps grind up the herb and it's not very potent. I think with he shou wu, there is a difference between the prepared (boiled in black beans IIRC) and the raw herb. Many of us here reported negative effects from taking extracts of the raw herb.

T

 

By extract, do you mean tincture? I'm taking the pills.

[thaddeus]

By extract, do you mean tincture? I'm taking the pills.

I mean if you look at the ingredients,sometimes it says 'extract' and sometimes it says 'powder'. The he sho wu pills I got in chinatown is 'extract'. Extracts are more concentrated and powerful. They boil or soak the herb in different mediums to 'extract' the beneficial stuff and then make a powder or whatever out of that. So 500 mg of an extract is way more than 500 mg of ground up herb. That's what I meant..

T

[agharta]

I know about wild animals because I have lived most of my life in an extremely rural area with lots of wildlife. Do your research. Any zoologist who has done a lot of field work knows.

 

I agree with you Lozen, raw vegans do run the gamut from almost-dead to quite healthy, and on the exact same diet. I have not seen the same degree of variation when including some raw animal products. I am personally also a big fan of healing clays.

[Neijia]

They boil or soak the herb in different mediums to 'extract' the beneficial stuff and then make a powder or whatever out of that.

Yeah... not only should that be a consideration, but if you go down there to buy the raw herb, you have to be careful you're not being ripped off.

 

 

Have you tried Shou Wu Chih?

[thaddeus]

Have you tried Shou Wu Chih?

Yes, it's one of my favorite tonics!

Regarding the comment on getting the raw herb, I find that many of the herb shops in chinatown are quite unscrupulous as well. In nyc's chinatown, you'll find that in the tourist spots, the owners don't really know much about the herbs. They might have a resident 'herbalist'--usually a decrepit old man in the back (hardly a poster boy for TCM), but for the most part, once you walk in, it's a hard sales pitch. I started to trust one and then later found them to be ripping me off. I could go on and on..but I'll spare everyone...

Someone told me the chinatown in toronto was the place to go to get quality herbs and no BS.

T

[Ian]

Have you tried Shou Wu Chih?

 

Yes, but I can't get it anymore. There used to be a chinese supermarket in Lisle St, London, that stocked it, but they don't seem to have it any more. The last time I found any was in New York in 2004, but it's a long way to go!

 

If anyone knows a source in the UK I'd be very grateful.

[agharta]

I hear that Hung Brothers in Atlanta has the good stuff. I have also ordered from Lin's Sister (name of the company) in NYC, but they don't speak much English. Plato knows the good sources in NYC Chinatown. Ask him.

[Ian]

I hear that Hung Brothers in Atlanta has the good stuff. I have also ordered from Lin's Sister (name of the company) in NYC, but they don't speak much English. Plato knows the good sources in NYC Chinatown. Ask him.

 

Yes, I know good sources in NY Chinatown myself. There's a shop in Elizabeth Street to start with.

 

But I'm in England, and I imagine the postage would be a little prohibitive.

 

So I'm looking for a source actually in England.

 

Thanks anyway.

[thaddeus]

Yes, I know good sources in NY Chinatown myself. There's a shop in Elizabeth Street to start with.

 

But I'm in England, and I imagine the postage would be a little prohibitive.

 

So I'm looking for a source actually in England.

 

Thanks anyway.

So I take it you don't live near a chinatown? Second, using Yoda's tips, try to manifest a bottle of it as an experiment.

T

[Ian]

So I take it you don't live near a chinatown? Second, using Yoda's tips, try to manifest a bottle of it as an experiment.

T

 

Have scoured the one in London to no avail. Will see what I can do.