Michael Winn, Enlightenment, Monkey Mind

[sharp-nose]

but if you are your own master and own student?

 

definately

 

that is what happens

 

but why did all the great saints and masters have a master?

not just one, but they had many...

 

i still vote for arrogance

saying this and that about other teachers is one way of saying

"im smarter than you, i preffer to be in control, alone"

 

thats fine

 

but it leads to a dead end

 

if you belong to a school, its normal to say this and that about other teachers

but if yo a goddamn loner, is like a jacking off, and then you go and spit on the idea of couple

 

you need a school

otherwise is just jacking of...

 

happy waking

i do it a lot

 

Forget Allan Watts, he is a faggot

He even made a move on Castaneda.

Once, Castaneda went and visited Watts, because he liked what the guy wrote.

He found out Watts was a loner, a jacking off philosopher...

Mentally jacking off, and phisical jacking off... its kind of cool, when you need to relieve tension.

But... SHEEESSSSSSSHHHHHHHH GUYS, doesnt it get boring???

Im bored already

[fatherpaul]

definately

 

that is what happens

 

but why did all the great saints and masters have a master?

not just one, but they had many...

 

i still vote for arrogance

saying this and that about other teachers is one way of saying

"im smarter than you, i preffer to be in control, alone"

 

thats fine

 

but it leads to a dead end

 

if you belong to a school, its normal to say this and that about other teachers

but if yo a goddamn loner, is like a jacking off, and then you go and spit on the idea of couple

 

you need a school

otherwise is just jacking of...

 

happy waking

i do it a lot

 

Forget Allan Watts, he is a faggot

He even made a move on Castaneda.

Once, Castaneda went and visited Watts, because he liked what the guy wrote.

He found out Watts was a loner, a jacking off philosopher...

Mentally jacking off, and phisical jacking off... its kind of cool, when you need to relieve tension.

But... SHEEESSSSSSSHHHHHHHH GUYS, doesnt it get boring???

Im bored already

wisdom grows on trees

[DentyDao]

[sharp-nose]

See?

Thats what im talking about...

Sean has something to defend, he belongs to a school.

So he gathers and assembles information on that criteria.

He is cool...

 

But the rest...

I mean, hey, screw the HT and Company.

But.

If youre not criticising to defend some kind of a school, maybe yo just hopeless whackers...

 

Sean is a hopefull whacker, by contrast.

He speaks about the side effects of a school, forgetting about the side effects of his own.

Is there a method that does not have side effects? NO.

Is there a way serious practicioners can avoid side effects? YES.

They are just natural byproducts, such as acheivements and ability.

What matters is to enjoy your way.

But.

The lust for power is a shameful way to succomb.

 

My menthor says there are four gods, and a fifth one, that few look for.

Sex, Money, Power, Fame are the Four.

The Real God is the Fifth.

Everywhere i looked, serious male practicioners usualy look for, and succomb to the Third.

And define an efficient path by that criteria.

 

And about the wisdom growing on trees, you would be surprised...

I mean, except maybe for spirelix, all the messages are just playing nuts.

What do you expect from me, to be a serious nut??

 

I prefer a nutty nut.

Is that a crazy way to defend sanity or what ??

 

Remember, you can make anything make sense.

What matters is the end result, and even that can be interpreted 1000 ways.

I follow this forum for quite sometime. I had enough lately, so Ive been pushed to take position.

Please dont be offended, my sharp nose has good intention.

Edited April 12, 2007 by sharp-nose

[DentyDao]

Sean has something to defend, he belong to a school.

So he gathers and assembles information on that criteria.

He is cool...

I'm defending Taoism. I don't care what people think of 'my school.'

 

Sean is a hopefull whacker, by contrast.

He speaks about the side effects of a school, forgetting about the side effects of his own.

Is there a method that does not have side effects? NO.

 

There is a difference between training that 'works' and has possible side effects if used incorrectly and training that leads no where and is a relative crap shoot in terms of your health.

[fatherpaul]

sharp-nose

 

"My menthor says there are four gods, and a fifth one, that few look for.

Sex, Money, Power, Fame are the Four.

The Real God is the Fifth.

Everywhere i looked, serious male practicioners usualy look for, and succomb to the Third.

And define an efficient path by that criteria."

 

your nose is dull forgive my rudeness

for pointing that out

 

peace and happy pancakes,

 

paul

[dunbar]

 

"Gimmy some gimmy gimmy gimmy your money motherfucker. I will hypnotize you with my freaky evil gaze, come to da tao mountain. Come come come come echo echo - you can't resist my chi."

[dunbar]

Delicous money

[thelerner]

I'd hate for this to become a mud fest on Michael Winn. Here's my 2 cents on the man. I've only taken one class w/ him and seen him during another session. I like him. He doesn't play the guru. He was always accessible(So were all the teachers there). Answered anything put to him, ate w/ the us, wouldn't drink w/ us but you can't have everything.

 

There was a session withs a group meditation. The lunch bell rang, everyone got up and left, but I was in a good place and stayed seated. Later when I opened my eyes, Winn was still there sharing the meditation with me, unasked. I found that very impressive.

 

I was at Tao Mountain when Ron Diana died and I spied Winn doing the Primordial TaiChi. He's by no means a great TaiChi player, but there was power, passion and depth within his movement, which I believe he was dedicating to Ron.

 

There's an unusual litmus test for testing a master, its 'How well does he get along with his wife'. I liked the way he kissed his wife, casually but with feeling. In my book he passed that test.

 

His CD's and courses might be considered expensive, but he also has free get togethers at his house. I don't think he's in it for the money and if he has several limo's he hides them well.

 

Maybe he is 'Neo' taoist, but I think he's read more, met more, hosted more masters then most. His knowledge on the history and application of alchemical taoism modern and ancient is encyclopedic. I think he's a good teacher and there's not whole lot of them out there teaching this esoteric stuff.

 

No teacher is for everyone, and this I'm sure people taking the same class leave with wildly different feelings.

 

Michael

[DentyDao]

 

"Gimmy some gimmy gimmy gimmy your money motherfucker. I will hypnotize you with my freaky evil gaze, come to da tao mountain. Come come come come echo echo - you can't resist my chi."

 

LOL, that is priceless. But, I have to say, for all his shortcomings, Michael has good intentions. Just don't let him feed you a bunch of crap if you take his courses; have fun with it. He does know how to be playful and laugh at himself. At least that's something. If you are a more serious practitioner, go to China and do your research.

 

S

[Smile]

The problem for most people is... they think they have enough time. Buddha was taking his most stubborn students who didn't want to give up sex/other pleasures to a cemetery to do a so called "Cemetery Contemplation". Don't click the link if you are easily offended by dead bodies...

[Wayfarer64]

I am more curious about than fearful of death.

Allen Ginsberg claimed that death was his every third thought, the other two he did not comment on, but I always took him to mean that he thought about death very often indeed.

Most of those whom I have loved in this life, have died already. Those that are still alive I don't want to care about, as I did those who died.

 

This has tested me emotionaly, but aided in my non-attachment in a very profound way. I am in the process of ridding myself of my worldly posessions. I seem to be deeply attached to some of them, mostly books and art works - that hold deeper meaning than mere material values. I remain intent on getting some value for them as I give them up- and this makes me laugh at myself. So I am now in the ironic position of having things of value but very little money. I need to change this to very few posessions and enough money to make a new start in Asia.

 

So far, this plan is not working out for me and I feel blocked by powerful forces in my attempts to get my life on the right path now.

So I am rethinking my plan and am now only planning for short-term results...a long fast and meditation to sort it all out.

 

In the mean-time any TaoBums who want anything on my site -WWW.pdgart.com - now is the time to make an offer for anything or things that you may like to own. I am in the right frame of mind to let you have them for very small amounts of money, compared to their real value. I want to be done with them ASAP.

 

My things have been on my mind because I need to sell them, this is the ironic situation I have created in trying to force myself into a new balance and way to be. What I am trying hardest to be rid of has taken over my life! It reaffirms my belief that striving is usually counter-productive. I shall cease all efforts for a while except to be polite and acommdating to all questions and offers that may come in. Creating a new way to be me is proving very hard to do.

Edited April 13, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[DentyDao]

The problem for most people is... they think they have enough time. Buddha was taking his most stubborn students who didn't want to give up sex/other pleasures to a cemetery to do a so called "Cemetery Contemplation". Don't click the link if you are easily offended by dead bodies...

 

That's good stuff Max. We should all contemplate our death daily.

[fatherpaul]

That's good stuff Max. We should all contemplate our death daily.

 

i concur

one must live with death everyday

like an old friend

[Smile]

These days, i'm more realistic, maybe reading Michael's (spyrelx) posts too much.

 

One needs to ask questions like: If Taiji/Chikung claims to prolong life and improve health, why most of masters of the past died in their 50-70's? Or why an "enlightened' teacher still addicted to sex? Or why a supposedly "comlete with the lineage" HT system needs to be adjusted for the present time and people?

 

What one says and does may be a mile apart. Just like with women, we should look at the actions and the energy connected with the person, not what they say.

[sharp-nose]

I'm defending Taoism. I don't care what people think of 'my school.'

There is a difference between training that 'works' and has possible side effects if used incorrectly and training that leads no where and is a relative crap shoot in terms of your health.

 

Pardon me, Sean, for pointing that out but:

Men that hunt for power without healing their heart issues, create problems.

A wounded man would wound others in turn.

A powerfull wounded man would hurt others even easier

All your post show that your heart is still bleeding.

 

Chia and Winn may ultimately have something essential here to say.

Youd like to skip that and go for power, thats your choise, man.

 

But why spit at others? You make it sound like your issues are healed, but ask others...

 

Btw,

you sound a lot like me when first discovered the Dao path.

I know where that "sound" comes from.

Is just plain insecurity.

 

A sad man is a sad thing. But what can be more depressive than a sad immortal?

Chew on that, if you please.

 

My nose is not sharp because I was born with it.

But because life sharpened it. And it still takes its tool on it.

 

This is also a response to Smile s questions...

Hunting for power doesnt solve "core issues".

You can still be an immortal and enlightened being, and still have a lot to solve.

I know that is difficult to deal with.

That "psychological" stuff everyone laughs about regarding what Winn teaches, may be the starting point of a new perspective. Please, just meditate for a second. One second of sincerity wouldnt kill.

 

Power is just one of the fake gods you meet on your way to the real God.

What is that? I couldnt know, im not there yet.

Have fun with all these intermediary gods, but dont loose yourself in them.

Not even the Great God can resolve your pending wounds and issues.

This dissolving process could make all the diference in the world.

But dont try to jump to Emptyness all of a sudden.

Is like jumping quick to ejaculation when making love with a beautifull woman. You could miss a lot, if not everything.

 

Pacience, healing, returning to oneself.

You are your best friend and companion on this Earth.

 

Sharpie

[DentyDao]

Edited April 16, 2007 by seandenty

[thelerner]

SeanD, its amazing how most of the threads you're involved in end up w/ you flaming people. Most people here are pretty mellow. There must a way for you to communicate without feeling attacked or going on the attack.

 

sigh

 

Michael

[Smile]

SeanD is right.

If one has something to say, let them say it. Thank God, not everyone here is mellow.

[DentyDao]

SeanD, its amazing how most of the threads you're involved in end up w/ you flaming people. Most people here are pretty mellow. There must a way for you to communicate without feeling attacked or going on the attack.

 

sigh

 

Michael

 

Your heart is obvisiously wounded. I would suggest some therapy

 

Michael, my comments are meant with sincerity. I'm sorry you think this is a problem. I care about what I say here. When I'm attacked unfairly, I have defended myself in plain words with out worrying about being politically correct. I think 'Sharpnose' is just being judgemental and misrepresenting the facts and I found his comments hurtful. Why are you making this your issue? You don't seem to have any problem getting into it with me when you don't agree with everything I have to say; why does everyone here have to follow your ideas about about behavior?

 

Sincerely, Sean

[thelerner]

I don't think its us. I honestly think its you. There are times your writing is bizarrely obnoxious. Almost every thread ends with you calling people names, being aggressive or passive aggressive and giving the you 'poor naive practitioners' speech.

 

My therapy is talking to friends and getting reality checks. You may want to try this non invasive procedure. If you're constantly pissing on and pissing off people here, it must flow into your real life. If you find yourself being 'unfairly attacked' all the time, look at how you react to things. In the famous words of Philosopher Ian, 'I am the problem'.

 

I haven't replied to any of your posts for weeks, probably months. Any inspiration for flames is not due to me. I don't like political correctness and the point of these discussions is disagreement, its a good thing.

 

When you see me online give a PM. I'm sure we agree on more then we disagree about and our problems are 1. The difference between the house holder, slacker bum zen practitioner (me) and the hard core, dedicated, righteous practitioner like yourself.

 

 

Yours

 

Michael

[Cameron]

You two obviously have some strong issues you need to work out. I think enough has been said and it's only right you both settle your personal problems on the court like men.

 

That's right...enough talk...you need to step up and settle this the way our anscestors of old did.

 

One on one..mano a mano..a match of tennis.

 

Or more online psychotherapy if you can't meet up.

 

Tennis fan Cam. All healed up and ready to step back on the tennis court shortly.

[DentyDao]

I don't think its us. I honestly think its you.

 

Us? You mean you and Pat?

 

There are times your writing is bizarrely obnoxious. Almost every thread ends with you calling people names, being aggressive or passive aggressive and giving the you 'poor naive practitioners' speech.

 

 

SO what? LOL, Michael, my god man, lighten up. I know this forum is your personal playground and probably one of your few social outlets, but I don't think I've flamed anyone here in quite a while. But since your so uptight about it I will give you a good flaming just so you done't feel left out.

 

Please don't take this personally, I'm doing this for your own good. Know that I charish every moment spent with you and dream of going to live chat with you one day; and that day that Michael Winn took an extra long lunch break to grace you with his presence, ya man, I was like there too, in spirit (single tear runs down cheek). Anyway, here's a little flame from me to you with love:

 

The learner is such a big baby, Ha Ha. Why is he always lurking around the forum asking people to 'Go to live chat.' It reminds me of an episode of "To catch a predetor" from Dateline NBC. "Let's take it to live chat. Come on guys? Guys? Anybody?" or "Hey, last night at 3am I had hot ass live chat with some dude and talked about how much my wife hates me."

 

And then there was that time he was asking everone here if they thought he should drop acid? He changed his picture to psychidelic rainbow and started counting down to the big day. He kept saying stuff like, "I finally will know what Satori is!" We had everyone weighing the pros and cons and most of us were like ,"Ya, fucking do it!" Then, of course, he starts worrying about his kids, "What if he goes crazy and loses his mind? Who will take care of the kids?" My god man don't dooooooo IT!!! Oh well, there's always live chat.

 

Hey Learner, I change my mind, take the acid! Your fucking boring.

 

Oh the learner, when will he ever learn.

 

Hugs an Donuts dude, See you in live chat. Oh btw, Wimbelton is on bitch!!! Put the kids to bed early and I'll see you in your tennis whites on live chat tonight you big nerd.

 

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In your face Learner.

Edited April 14, 2007 by seandenty

[xenolith]

So much misunderstanding. So much such avoidable. So sad. Suggestion: Accuse not others of lying.

[Wayfarer64]

This is too much -

Just when I read one of Denty's usually blocked/ignored entries, (which was done to spare myself the shilling and/or infantile rancor)...My name is on there !

 

So ok I shall respond.

Denty-

How sweet and how silly of you to bring me into yr all too typical run of BS... I will not go back to see what started this current line of nonsense - but instead I will just guess that your erudition has still not tendered an iota of understanding.

 

As you know, yr entries have been blocked when I am logged in, so, I seldom look at yr entries here -The last I did, when I was here without logging in- I thought you made a good point about Buddha's developing his (then) new path as one that evolved from older paths, and his understanding of those paths as a basis for his insights and enlightened attempt at a new direction. I logged on & complmented you on that insight.

 

You do seem to have a grasp on the history and intellectual aspects of many matters addressed here. But you still exhibit no ability to comport yourself in a manner that is consistant with the basic virtues many here adhere to and seek to further in ourselves. Respectful discourse being the most pertinant.

 

That you continue to behave so badly at any hint of doubting what you say - from other members of this forum is just sad. You seem to be so easily made so very angry. That you respond with such personal attacks as to question the truth of one's nationality etc is just weird.

 

You exhibit a fairly good intellectual grasp of many aspects of our discussions here. It would be gratifying to see you get & keep a grip on your own emotions when challanged in any small way.

 

I guess I will just have to keep you in the ignore section of cyberspace ala DaBums...Since I put you there I have had a much more pleasent experience here.

 

For the rest of yous bums- I regret taking up any of yr time responding to Denty-