please enligthen me!!!

[sunshine]

GrandTrinity... my thinking might be slow but my ears are quite good... I for sure stay tuned

[Max]

Harry,

 

You shouldn't be concerned too much with shaking or any other physical manifestations while meditating. In fact, people who spend some considerable time practicing sooner or later may experience some vibrations in the body or bodily movements. The whole hatha yoga movement came out of this phenomenon, where people would move into different postures during their meditation.

 

The next time you experience the shaking, just relax and try to remember not to give much importance to this. After all the nervous tension is gone from the muscles and joints in the body, and the mind is completely quiet, you will pass this stage and move on to a higher level of cultivation.

 

Just like the mind that can pass through a flood of thoughts, so the body can experience the same thing on a physical level. Keep doing what you are doing and this all will pass.

 

You may consider these experiences a good thing. Just don't give it too much importance, and it will pass.

[Trunk]

I can't give much of a breakdown of what that teacher wrote. Partly i don't know some of the terminology, and partly i feel it is out of my depth. I can say that that teacher is addressing deep issues.

[sunshine]

Thankx Max. I try to approach it that way. But I can tell you: relaxing is quite difficult at those moments. It is like your body is taken over and you have no more control over it. No. I do not feel any ghost slipping into me and doing this & if I concentrate I get "it", but relaxing the mind allows for those movements to happen & relaxing the body then is about impossible...

 

Harry

[Max]

Keep your body relaxed and mind quite. Just remember a lot of people who actually practice go through this stage. You don't really need to know the reason for these vibrations, although some visions about the cause may come up in the process. Just keep on doing what you are doing and do not be afraid.

[peter falk]

Why do you think that there is so much talk about people moving astray from the way? It does not seem to be that simple if one hears about bad spirits that try to keep you where you are or even try to make things worse...

 

all that will happen regardless of which way you do it. of course you need someone for guidance and to get you thru hard times, but that is independent of the approach. you can get lost in the mind while studying the deeper aspects of daoism and never get the deeper aspects. likewise you need to support what you feel in practice with teaching. but ultimately you find the razors edge, and at that point the intellect is useless and you need higher faculties of consciousness for guidance. all conventional systems of knowledge, learning, and morality become themselves like demons that prevent your admancement.

 

in the beginning, balance the study with practice, or the practice with study. they complement each other. but some people will start with one and then go to the other in its turn, advance, and repeat the cycle.

[Pietro]

Thankx Max. I try to approach it that way. But I can tell you: relaxing is quite difficult at those moments. It is like your body is taken over and you have no more control over it. No. I do not feel any ghost slipping into me and doing this & if I concentrate I get "it", but relaxing the mind allows for those movements to happen & relaxing the body then is about impossible...

 

Harry

 

Hello Harry, and thanks for the thread.

 

I think Max said it nearly fully. The only thing I would like to add is that as shaking often appears when energy doesn't travel smoothly, and sometimes there are some blockages, yet some other times is just that the position is not very good. For example check that the spine is actually well aligned. That the coxic (or however you spell it ) is tucked... but not too tucked. That the energy gate in the qua are open and from the qua up on the side of the spine. That the spine on the back drops down near the spine (while the front rises - yes the phisical does the opposite of the energetical). Try in particular while you are shaking.

I was a shaker (:bounce: ) too, and eventually it changed. I just kept on practicing, refining the position, and soon the channels opened enough for you not to shake at your own energy.

[Trunk]

Harry,

 

Max and Pietro are giving the straight scoop on the shaking. Shaking tends to happen to people at some stages of their progression, usually to those who are fairly sensitive to energy.

 

My major aim is to get myself back into shape first. I have severe sleeping disoders, sometimes being in bed 10-12 hours but not really sleeping and not being really fresh throughout the day... etc. etc.

The sleeping disorder is a real problem. The energy that you access through qi gong can often be "quite invigorating" and that + your sleeping problem doesn't sound like a good recipe to me.

 

Yeah, go ahead and work on opening your structure, your tissues, your channels. But your emphasis in your alchemy needs to be with practices that will sooth, nurture, and ground you. Diet, herbs, maybe seeing a good dr of tcm, all might be part of it. It'll probably be a long term project to gradually become more grounded and soothed, and learning what things foster that for you. AND learning what things make the disorder worse.

 

Some qi gong rev's a person up, some gradually results in more stability, more anchor. Seems to me that its really important for you to watch your step along this line so that your practice - in the short & long term - takes you along your own healthy road.

 

Trunk

[Trip]

Harry,

 

You mentioned a severe sleeping disorder, and this must be a terrible, terrible burden. You didn't write much about it though, and I wonder what it's like. Are you simply unable to fall asleep, for example, or do you wake up in the middle of the night? And has your life now patterned itself around this insomnia? Maybe, for example, you no longer have obligations each morning and can just stay in bed, and so also stay up later and later tossing and turning each night. Just how far has the insomnia thrown your rhythm out of balance?

 

And when you do awake, does your mind keep churning? Probably most of the time insomnia is mixed with psychological issues like stress, anxiety, tension... Do you suffer from more than your fair share of these? You've written quite a lot, yet there's so much you haven't told us: are you married or single? Worried about school, sex, love, work, retirement, death, being alone? ... Can you, in your heart of hearts, name the source of your insomnia? Because I think it's important you consider whether you are going to work on it as an issue apart, or treat it as one aspect of a more general rebalancing.

 

I think Chi Kung and meditation can work miracles, but in the beginning, when we need these miracles most, we may be too fragile to tap into their power. You've described many of the practices you've looked at, but not why you're looking. Maybe you should treat meditation now as one aspect of a many-sided process of rebuilding, and not as an end in itself. A lot of the things we must do to have a productive meditation practice are anyway the same things we must do to live a balanced life: eat healthily (whatever that means), work and play, get plenty of rest... Meditation is not really possible without a certain amount of order. Have you thought about meditation in this more global context? For example, what is your relationship to the medical / psychological establishment? I have no idea whether you've talked to 1,000 doctors about 1,000 aspects of your life and feel abused and let down, or whether you've never even considered asking for such "more traditional" assistance. But you might want to seek out the council not only of a good meditator, but also of a good psychologist who can help you build a firm foundation.

 

There are, for example, a number of psychological ways you can tackle your insomnia (whether you treat it as the issue you'd like to work on, or as a symptom of larger issues in your life). One approach involves being in bed only when you're sleepy, and not going to bed early or taking naps during the day. Enter your bedroom at the appointed hour and if you don't fall asleep within ten minutes, get up and leave the room and do something else until you are tired. If you follow this approach, you shouldn't do any reading, TV-watching, etc. in your bedroom. You must also get out of bed each day at the appointed hour, whether you've slept enough or not.

 

I should add that this approach, like the two that follow, needs to be practiced for a while. These are not one-shot cure-alls.

 

A second approach is to be perverse. Lie in bed with your eyes wide open. Try to stay awake as long as you can.

 

A third approach uses relaxation techniques and self-hypnosis. Here's where I think you could involve meditation, either in place of self-hypnosis, or in conjunction with it. I'd suggest you practice simple techniques like the inner smile and six healing sounds, or their equivalent from another system. You could easily incorporate them into the process described (only sketchily) above.

 

Used this way, meditation will give immediate, practical results you can build on. It will assist you through a larger process. Later, when you're sleeping well, you can expand your meditation practice and watch it make you stronger, healthier, happier... Your practice will become like a snowball rolling down a mountain, gathering momentum and growing. But you should do first-things first, clear out the obstacles.

 

Take good care,

 

Trip

[RON JEREMY]

LOOK DA NUMBER 1 REASON FOR SLEEP DISSORDERS NOWADAYS BE DA GODDAMN CHEMTRAILS. IN ADDITION / COMBINNATION WITH HAARP/MICCROWAVES FROM CELL TOWERS.

 

DA TYPPICAL SLEEP DISORDER FROM CHEMTRAILS IS LIKE, YA FEEL REALY DROWSY N GO TO SLEEP EARLY, BUT THEN YA WAKE UP IN DA MIDDLE O DA NIGHT, LIKE 3-5 AM, N CANT GET TO SLEEP NO MORE, THEN BY 12 NOON YALL BE FALLIN APART AGGAIN.

 

WHAT HELPS SOMEWHAT IS FASTIN N AVOIDIN MEALS BEFORE SLEEP N AVOIDIN ALCOHOL - BUT WHO DA FUCK IS GONNA AVOID ALCOHOL ANYWAY. SO DA REAL SOLLUTION IS - LETS STOP DA CHEMTERAILS GODDAMNIT!!!

 

 

RJ

[sunshine]

That the energy gate in the qua are open and from the qua up on the side of the spine. That the spine on the back drops down near the spine (while the front rises - yes the phisical does the opposite of the energetical).

 

Peitro. Good to know to be in a family of shakers... Hope you don'T mind to clarify the above a little more: what is a "qua" and what do you mean by "while the front rises". Do you mean the chest?

[sunshine]

All of this is very related to my statement that a certain teacher is "selling sensation and marketing it as Taoism". My statement wasn't intended as some sort of baseless slam, but very carefully worded in regards to the above topics of study. If the whole "slamming" issue could be looked past (its not the issue, in my mind), the statement could lead to some very interesting conversations. .. interesting study... into very root issues of Buddhism, and Taoism.

 

Keith. I just wanted to state that I did not overlook what you said. I take it very serious and fully understand what you mean and I think actually "that" was the reason why I originally moved away from the "Healing Tao". Techniques without the "the" is empty... so I can & do look past the "slamming" and look forward to the "very interesting conversations... interesting stidy... into the very root issues of Buddhism, and Taoism". I very much hope that this discussion will happen for me to learn. Unfortunately I can not contribute to it as of today...

 

humble Harry

[sunshine]

Hey Trip,

 

thankx for you mails... yep. sleeping disorders are really terrible. But it has so much to do with the current life style I can not do much about. This is my final year in western medical studies. Besides I am studying Traditional & Classical Chinese medicine, work 10 nights a month etc. etc. etc. Not a very healthy lifestyle but one I am not able to change at this point in time. TCM doctors & herbs are good, but they cost money, money I currently do not have. And it is not that easy to get good herbal medicine in Germany. Germany is very strict regarding this on the free market. And ordering from outside Germany is always a hassle, as very often customs checks it and either destroys it or sends it back. Nevertheless I sometimes try again & again.

 

Rergarding the "churning mind"... luckily this has become quite calm with the 2 years of holosync I have been doing now. It comes back during the initial phases of moving to a higher (or deeper) binaural beat level, but smoothes out quickly. I know what a monkey mind is, you can bet, but I am far ahead of it today.

 

Worrying is part of being a student. My memory unfortunately is not the best, which makes learning tough and passing exams quite a problem sometimes. But it is a good way to learn the art of letting go, so it has its merit. Nevertheless it could be a lot easier...

 

In your other mail you spoke about hypnotism. Actually I look forward to becoming a psychiatrist/psychotherapist & I hope to integrate TCM as part for treating severe psychiatric & psychosomatic disorders...

 

The idea with the bedroom sure is a good one. Problem is only that I only have one room for everything. Nothing to do about it at the moment...

 

I will get that sleep-book Yoda mentioned. Seems to be interesting as it does address the problem of people that change their work patterns often (night, day etc.)

 

stay tuned

 

Harry

[sunshine]

Hey Ron. Actually NO drop of alcohol is passing my lips... but what to do about the CHEMTRAILS???

 

Harry

[Trunk]

did not overlook

That msg was written with broad audience in mind. 8)

[sunshine]

:idea: yeah. I know. And I hope that audience will react :idea:

[Trip]

[BobD]

Hi Harry

 

If you are interested in memory books and techniques, let me add to the list of recommendations books by Tony Buzan (Master Your Memory) and Dominic O'Brien (How To Develop A Perfect Memory). Both describe similar techniques to Lorayne, but with different specifics and details.

 

Basically, your idea that you have a poor memory is a limitation you're placing on yourself. Both Lorayne and Higbee would counter that all you have is an "untrained" memory, and that's something you do something about.

 

Absoultely. Using the techniques from the above books I have found that it is quite easy to remember whole chunks of stuff that I would previously never have attempted, believing my memory to be too poor.

[Pietro]

That the energy gate in the qua are open and from the qua up on the side of the spine. That the spine on the back drops down near the spine (while the front rises - yes the phisical does the opposite of the energetical).

 

Peitro. Good to know to be in a family of shakers... Hope you don'T mind to clarify the above a little more: what is a "qua" and what do you mean by "while the front rises". Do you mean the chest?

 

Qua, is the nephew of donald duck. What I actually meant are the Kua. But we are moving in a place where you really need live instructions. I was hoping to let you recall info that you might already have received.

 

When I speak on the front I meant:

on the side of the spine, in front of it there are two lines of tension-energy. They start from the Kua (again!) and rise up. They are fairly advanced stuff, so is not something that people are expected to feel for the first 3 or 4 years. (Yet I would be surprised if Trip does not feel them, for example)

 

All the alignement in the body are something which are hard to teach in not one to one form, so excuse me if I don't try. But Bruce will come in Germany to teach a course in TAi Ji and Taoist Breathing this April. I am sure if you are there you will have the chance to ask someone for tips. If someone shakes during his lessons Bruce tend to tell him what is wrong with his posture. And if all the rest fail I will be there and can drink with you a beer, saying how frustrating that we all don't have a private teacher

 

Sorry if I could not be of more help.

Pietro

[sunshine]

[Pietro]

no no no no no lol. The kua i am refering to are a part of the body which pretty much run along the bikini line on the side of the crotch. By having a correct posture over there you define how the energy travels between the legs and the body, along the legs down and up the front of the spine plus other. Pa kua stands for eight power and is way more abstract. I am not even sure they are the same chinese word. And yes, Bruce is B.K.

[sunshine]

Where can I find out more about the kua you refer to?

[Tenguzake]

i first got a grasp on this from tom brown, jr.  later, maicael winn was intrumental in solidifying it.

 

Peter,

 

Are you currently practicing the Tracker School Philosophy meditations in addition to Chi Kung? I did Philosophy I in October of last year and am doing those practices side by side with various Chia/Winn Chi Kung practices.

 

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the integration of the two sets of practices.

 

Thanks,

 

Tenguzake

[peter falk]

it's late now. i'll start a new thread on this tomorrow. or write an article relating native american philosphy to daoism, or some shit like that.

[Tenguzake]

it's late now.  i'll start a new thread on this tomorrow.  or write an article relating native american philosphy to daoism, or some shit like that.

2350[/snapback]

 

Cool! I look forward to reading it.

 

Be Genki,

 

Tenguzake