fatherpaul Posted March 21, 2007 "a taoist loses everyday" not sure who penned that, perhaps one of you know, no matter. my question is What does the taoist lose? peace, paul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wenwu Posted March 21, 2007 they lose the day before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yen Hui Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) "a taoist loses everyday" not sure who penned that, perhaps one of you know, no matter. my question is What does the taoist lose? Lao Tzu 48 For learning you gain daily; for the Way you lose daily. Losing and losing, thus you reach noncontrivance; be uncontrived, and nothing is not done. Taking the world is always done by not making anything of it. For when something is made of it, that is not enough to take the world. Thus, s/he loses 'self'-wilfullness and becomes receptive/responsive to the myriad impulses of the Creative. Edited March 21, 2007 by Yen Hui Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist81 Posted March 21, 2007 "a taoist loses everyday" not sure who penned that, perhaps one of you know, no matter. my question is What does the taoist lose? peace, paul Lao Tzu wrote, "In the pursuit of learning everyday something is added, in the pursuit of the Tao every day something is lost(/dropped etc). Less and less is done until nonaction is achieved. When nothing is done nothing is left undone." There are many ways to take this section. One way is to note the interconnectedness of the universe. In another part of the Tao Te Ching he states that "once the whole is divided the parts need names, there are already enough names". In the end all the ten thousand things are parts of the whole. To pursue the Tao is to see more and more how all things are encompassed within it. At least, that is one way to look at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatherpaul Posted March 21, 2007 first, let me thank you for your kind replies, I should have known the author, but so much is attributed to him, one wonders if it was he. no matter. this "losing everyday" is akin to non-accumulation, this is closer to the state of "interconnectedness" with all that is, it is almost a totally negative affair wherein "taking nurishment from the mother of all things" means immediately being filled directly from the void and holding on to none of it, yet the action of its passing through you rejuvinates you constantly. please bear in mind that these words "immediate" and "constant, imply the passage of time, whereas this is not so. peace, paul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yen Hui Posted March 22, 2007 this "losing everyday" is akin to non-accumulation, this is closer to the state of "interconnectedness" with all that is, it is almost a totally negative affair wherein "taking nurishment from the mother of all things" means immediately being filled directly from the void and holding on to none of it, yet the action of its passing through you rejuvinates you constantly. hi Paul ~ Yes, the two are akin. The Taoist works on losing that which seperates him/her from the Great Way, and thus moves toward realizing "interconnectedness". However, with regard to the practice of nurturing life, it is good for us to reflect on the following words of the Immortalized Lao Tzu:- Lao Tzu 10 Carrying vitality and consciousness, embracing them as one, can you keep from parting? Concentrating energy, making it supple, can you be like an infant? Lao Tzu 55 The richness of subliminal virtue is comparable to an infant: poisonous creatures do not sting it, wild beasts do not claw it, predatory birds do not grab it. Its tendons are flexible, yet its grip is firm. Even while it knows not of the mating of male and female, its genitals get aroused; this is the epitome of vitality. It can cry all day without choking or getting hoarse; this is the epitome of harmony. Knowing harmony is called constancy; knowing constancy is called clarity; enhancing life is called propitious, the mind mastering energy is called strong. When beings climax in power, they wane; this is called being unguided. The unguided die early. Lao Tzu 76 When people are born they are supple, and when they die they are stiff. When trees are born they are tender, and when they die they are brittle. Stiffness is thus a companion of death, flexibility a companion of life. Miscellaneous thoughts on the above: 1) Vitality, spirit, and energy are the Three Treasures of Life. 2) The science of nurturing life requires firmly holding these Treasures. 3) Failure to hold onto these Three Treasures is the cause of premature death. However, as non-doing begins with doing, so non-accumulation begins with accumulation, and non-learning begins with learning. Thus Lao Tzu says: "For learning you gain daily; for the Way you lose daily." The kind of learning that is discouraged in Taoism is not that of the spirit, but that of the world, and which is pursued from worldly motives. What is the meaning of "Carrying vitality and consciousness, embracing them as one, can you keep from parting?" Perhaps there are several ways to look at this, among which is the view that it speaks of unifying spirit and soul, or the mind of Tao with the mundane human mentality. Another way of saying this is merging the innate body of wisdom with consciousness. However, mundane human mentality is and must be conditioned, thus the need for some kind of learning. But what kind, or according to what standard: the spirit of the Tao or the spirit of the world? In the spirit of the Great Way, Yen Hui (a.k.a. ~ Ken) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatherpaul Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) thank you yen, this losing everyday, what is being lost? is it the trappings of thought? the unconcious desire to hold on to an identity? the accumulation of emotions through the course of the day? memories? or is it all this, in that the mind that stays empty lives only in the moment (again the timebound words) that is to say that this incredible energy that explodes from the void flows through this empty vessel, unencumbered? what do you say? peace, paul Edited March 22, 2007 by fatherpaul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yen Hui Posted March 22, 2007 thank you yen, this losing everyday, what is being lost? is it the trappings of thought? the unconcious desire to hold on to an identity? the accumulstion of emotions through the course of the day? memories? or is it all this, in that the mind that stays empty lives only in the moment (again the timebound words) that is to say that this incredible energy that explodes from the void flows through this empty vessel, unencumbered? what do you say? Those are some excellent questions, but I have no time left today. Sorry, Paul, but if time permits tomorrow, I attempt to address them. Thanks and may you have a good evening! Yen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatherpaul Posted March 22, 2007 you say these are questions yen? i say they are statements. who am i to make such statements? what do you say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted March 23, 2007 (edited) breath in ...it's those spontaneous moments of aha rising up in the beautiful moment to the surface... breath out ..fresh.. Edited March 23, 2007 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatherpaul Posted March 24, 2007 *beating the dead horse* so this losing every day is really losing every second "being empty the sage is always filled" or as it is to this one i feel empty, and yet one more thing would be too much i see this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yen Hui Posted March 24, 2007 "being empty the sage is always filled" Like movement and stillness, both emptiness and fullness are changing states. The sage contemplates the changes and how they transform. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
