ChiForce Posted June 20, 2013 I find the path to the Pratyekabuddha very interesting. A self enlightened buddha without guides or teachers, in the time when there is no Buddha and the Dharma path to speak of. This speaks to my personal enlightenment experience. Many online sources indicate that the pratyeka path is of less noble. Maybe so BUT if someone is following the pratyekabuddha path, it is often not by choice. Especially in our modern age when religions (Buddhism) lost its meaning and we are surrounded by many unwholesome sentient beings. And a person brought up by many personal tragedies and hurtful childhood. Quite often, the pratyeka path is the only path available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 Especially in our modern age when religions (Buddhism) lost its meaning  Buddhism lost its meaning?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 Pratyekabuddha very interesting. Â This path is not available, since Buddhadharma has been established. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 Buddhism lost its meaning?? Not everyone is living in a world surrounded by Buddhist temples!!!! Or even seeing other Buddhist monks!!!! I live in America. Buddhism is a new age thing some 20 years ago. People did not even talk about Carl Jung back then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 Not everyone is living in a world surrounded by Buddhist temples!!!! Or even seeing other Buddhist monks!!!! I live in America. Buddhism is a new age thing some 20 years ago. People did not even talk about Carl Jung back then. Â Take refuge in the Triple Gems and read a book. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 This path is not available, since Buddhadharma has been established. What do you mean not available..... If a being can become enlightened without guides or teachers, the pratyeka path, he needs no permissions or even needs to acknowledge any paths other than pondering the dependent and interdependent causations. That's why this path is very fascinating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Take refuge in the Triple Gems and read a book. You are totally missing the point. We are talking about the age when there is no Buddha. When the Dharma path isn't there. Relatively speaking, this can be a reference to a sentient being not knowing ANYTHING about Buddha or Buddhism. Think of someone living in America some 20 years ago. Through his merit from past life, he managed to become enlightened, without guides or teachers!!! Edited June 21, 2013 by ChiForce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 You are totally missing the point. We are talking about the age when there is no Buddha. When the Dharma path isn't there. Relatively speaking, this can be a reference to a sentient being not knowing ANYTHING about Buddha or Buddhism. Think of someone living in America some 20 years ago. Through his merit from past life, he managed to become enlightened, without guides or teachers!!! Â Who has achieved omniscient Buddhahood like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 Â Who has achieved omniscient Buddhahood like that? I have no ideas and I certainly don't have that knowledge. However, since most people couldn't approach to the level of cultivation of an arhat, there is little point in pondering how to become the supreme Buddha. That's just fancy wishful thinking.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 It normally takes 3 incalculable eons to achieve Buddhahood. This is according to all of Buddhism. The Buddha was essentially enlightened when born. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 I have no ideas and I certainly don't have that knowledge. However, since most people couldn't approach to the level of cultivation of an arhat, there is little point in pondering how to become the supreme Buddha. That's just fancy wishful thinking.... Â The whole point of Mahayana, is to benefit infinite sentient beings by becoming a Buddha as fast as possible. Â Have you not heard of bodhicitta? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 I have no ideas and I certainly don't have that knowledge. However, since most people couldn't approach to the level of cultivation of an arhat, there is little point in pondering how to become the supreme Buddha. That's just fancy wishful thinking.... Â Â But you were the one thinking of pratyekabuddha! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 But you were the one thinking of pratyekabuddha! Â Look, here is your problem. We have this discussion earlier but apparently you only think of the Mahayana path is the only path to become the supreme Buddha. However, one has to follow the Hinayana path in order to reach to the Mahayana path. The pratyeka path is similar to the Hinayana path of the arhatship. The person's only desire to become liberated from the world and without wishes to save all other sentient beings. That's why the pratyeka path is only slightly greater than the hinayana path but still lesser than the Mahayana path. If you have problems with this, go search back the original thread. All the arguments are there. No need to waste my time here to argue with you. Â Yes, you still don't understand what it means by the pratyeka path. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 Look, here is your problem. We have this discussion earlier but apparently you only think of the Mahayana path is the only path to become the supreme Buddha. However, one has to follow the Hinayana path in order to reach to the Mahayana path. Â That's ridiculous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 That's ridiculous. Hahaah..here you go, have fun... Â http://thetaobums.com/topic/28117-arhats/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 All the arguments are there. No need to waste my time here to argue with you. Â Yes I remember. You refused to quote the book that said supported your position. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 Yes I remember. You refused to quote the book that said supported your position. Do I need to hurt your feeling now? Hahaha...keep reading the entire thread, you are the stubborn one. Look son, if you have nothing worthy to say in my thread, please, stay out. You are obviously wrong on so many levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 Please hurt my feelings. I read the entire thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 You are obviously wrong on so many levels. Â Â You are the one who keeps claiming something so false. You don't even have to practice Mahayana sutra before you enter Vajrayana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) You are the one who keeps claiming something so false. You don't even have to practice Mahayana sutra before you enter Vajrayana. So, what was YOUR enlightenment path??? Here is mine. http://thetaobums.com/topic/27489-new-here-tooand-have-many-questions/ Â If this isn't the Pratyeka path, I don't know what is... Â Of course, after to have read 2 major works by Master Nan, a lot of questions have been answered. It is almost like "ah, that was what happened to me back then and up to now." Edited June 21, 2013 by ChiForce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted June 21, 2013 Hi Chiforce, Â Buddhism haven't lost its meaning at all. What Alwayson mentioned is partly true, the path of Pratyekbuddha is not available in this lifetime. One can however cultivate and approach that certain path in the future, however it is not a matter of choice but depends greatly on how one cultivates. Â My question is if one have the choice of cultivation in this life, Why should one worry about future lives instead of the current one. Â Peace and fruitfulness on your path. XJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 21, 2013 Hi Chiforce, Buddhism haven't lost its meaning at all. What Alwayson mentioned is partly true, the path of Pratyekbuddha is not available in this lifetime. One can however cultivate and approach that certain path in the future, however it is not a matter of choice but depends greatly on how one cultivates. My question is if one have the choice of cultivation in this life, Why should one worry about future lives instead of the current one. Peace and fruitfulness on your path. XJ From my experience, no, is not a choice because the pratyeka path to enlightenment is almost pathless but solely relying on one's merit from one's past lives. What one would need to do in this life time is to ponder the dependent and interdependent origination. Of course, most people often assume we choose a path to cultivate. To some others like myself, we don't choose. There are degrees of enlightenment depending on how many states of samadhi you can achieve. In each of your life time, you experience a bit of enlightenment and clarity. Again, don't assume if you have to accomplish any sort of enlightenment, it has to be the ultimate, full enlightenment (complete liberation of the 5 skandhas). I am not sure if that's even possible other than as described in Buddhist text and surtras. I don't quite understand what you mean by future lives here though. If anything, I am referring to a enlightenment path (pratyeka) which is very closely describing what I went through. Is actually, my past here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 If you have problems with this, go search back the original thread. All the arguments are there. Â The other thread had nothing to do with pratyekabuddha. Â It had to do with you claiming you have to follow Hinayana before Mahayana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narveen Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) The other thread had nothing to do with pratyekabuddha. Â It had to do with you claiming you have to follow Hinayana before Mahayana. Â are you disdainful of people who attain enlightenment in a way unconnected with buddhism? jesus christ comes to mind. another would be confucius. yet another would be the "author" of the tao te ching. Â pratyekabuddhas cannot preach the dharma of buddhism. they would have their own respective dharmas. Â what is the dharma of chi force if he is a pratyekabuddha? Edited June 21, 2013 by narveen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted June 21, 2013 jesus christ comes to mind. another would be confucius. yet another would be the "author" of the tao te ching. Â These people, if they are even real historical characters, are not omniscient Buddhas. Â Enlightenment is the 3 kayas. Period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
