Pratyekabuddha

[RongzomFan]

Why you promoting the old stereotype that India is poor?

 

Have you been to the slums in the west?

 

Would rather live in a rural village in India than a western slum, that's for sure.

Edited June 22, 2013 by alwayson

[narveen]

Why you promoting the old stereotype that India is poor?

 

is poverty not a part of life? i don't like it but i am not ashamed of it. i would rather get rid of it and not hide it.

 

Have you been to the slums in the west?

 

yes. london, paris and new york - high cultural statements in their own right.

they are a lot less depressing than the slums of kolkata and mumbai (one can't even find mcdonald's there).

 

Would rather live in a rural village in India than a western slum, that's for sure.

 

a rural village in india is not quite the same as a rural village in switzerland, south of france or upstate new york.

you would rather live without piped water, electricity and toilet?

that, to me, would be pushing ethnic pride a little too far.

Edited June 22, 2013 by narveen

[Simple_Jack]

Yes I remember. You refused to quote the book that said supported your position.

 

The book(s) that he's referencing are a translation of transcripts from a lecture on the Yogacarabhumi-shastra (think of it in terms of the path and stages as laid out in the Abhisamayalankara).

 

Nan Huaijin wasn't talking about gradually going through the path and stages in terms of realization (since he talks a lot about Ch'an, with a brief mention of Mahamudra).

 

In terms of reaching anuttara-samyaksambodhi: he mentions gradually cultivating the paths and stages as laid out in the tripitaka. Not according to the standard of 3 asamkhyea kalpas, but in a single lifetime.

 

When Chiforce mentions "following the Hinayana path in order to reach the Mahayana path," he is referring to the elimination of the 88 deluded viewpoints and 81 cognitive delusions to reach arahantship [http://books.google.com/books?id=cFEfrVMdxiEC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false].

 

His two books are interesting, since it goes into details of the purification of the elements and the development of the bases of power (e.g. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn51/sn51.020.than.html) or when he mentions the majority of practitioners (Buddhist and non-Buddhist) mostly reaching the outer heavens of each jhana states and how reaching the inner heavens is a rarer accomplishment.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

There are degrees of enlightenment depending on how many states of samadhi you can achieve.

 

Nan Hauijin (nor the Buddhist canon) does not say that dhyana in itself leads to realization; he equally emphasizes prajna and the development of insight in his books.

 

 

I have a limited study of buddhist texts and hadn't heard of the pratyeka path to enlightenment. It's an intriguing concept.

I'm curious about how it is no longer an option and what changed to take that option away.

 

Ven. Phra Acharn Mun's hagiography (http://www.thaibuddhism.net/Achan_Man.pdf) mentions a bhikkhu who thought of making the vow to one day become a paccekabuddha by awakening in a time when there is no buddhadharma. So, this requires accumulating lifetimes of merit to achieve (more than what it takes for arahantship).

 

Pratyekabuddha's are basically crypto-realists (buddhist definition). There are differences between how Theravada and certain Mahayana traditions categorize a pratyekabuddha's realization, but generally they are described as appearing in a time when the buddhadharma hasn't been reestablished in the world by a samyaksambuddha. They are said to awaken by contemplating the 12 links of dependent origination. For simplicities sake, I would say that they gain insight into the 3 characteristics (i.e. emptiness of persons); though this would differ apparently according to some Tibetans when they say they also realize half of the emptiness of phenomena. I think this is due to namarupa (i.e. mind & body) in the 12 links.

 

In Mahayana, the pratyekabuddhayana is lower than the bodhisattvayana, but categorized as higher than the sravakayana. Links for further reading:

 

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha126.htm

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh305.pdf

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Paccekabuddha

http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/pa/pacceka_buddha.htm

 

Rigpa wiki:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Pratyekabuddha

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Pratyekabuddha_yana

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Bodhisattva_yana

[Jeff]

Hi Simple Jack,

 

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the info and the links.

 

Regards, Jeff

[silent thunder]

Ven. Phra Acharn Mun's hagiography (http://www.thaibuddhism.net/Achan_Man.pdf) mentions a bhikkhu who thought of making the vow to one day become a paccekabuddha by awakening in a time when there is no buddhadharma. So, this requires accumulating lifetimes of merit to achieve (more than what it takes for arahantship).

 

Pratyekabuddha's are basically crypto-realists (buddhist definition). There are differences between how Theravada and certain Mahayana traditions categorize a pratyekabuddha's realization, but generally they are described as appearing in a time when the buddhadharma hasn't been reestablished in the world by a samyaksambuddha. They are said to awaken by contemplating the 12 links of dependent origination. For simplicities sake, I would say that they gain insight into the 3 characteristics (i.e. emptiness of persons); though this would differ apparently according to some Tibetans when they say they also realize half of the emptiness of phenomena. I think this is due to namarupa (i.e. mind & body) in the 12 links.

 

In Mahayana, the pratyekabuddhayana is lower than the bodhisattvayana, but categorized as higher than the sravakayana.

 

Thank you Simple_Jack.

[RongzomFan]

When Chiforce mentions "following the Hinayana path in order to reach the Mahayana path," he is referring to the elimination of the 88 deluded viewpoints and 81 cognitive delusions to reach arahantship [http://books.google.com/books?id=cFEfrVMdxiEC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false].

 

 

Yes, he thinks you have to be an arhat before you start following Mahayana.

[Simple_Jack]

Not according to the standard of 3 asamkhyeya kalpas, but in a single lifetime.

 

 

 

 

For simplicities sake...

 

It's possessive, so it should actually be read as "for simplicity's sake".

[ChiForce]

Nan Hauijin (nor the Buddhist canon) does not say that dhyana in itself leads to realization; he equally emphasizes prajna and the development of insight in his books.

 

 

 

Ven. Phra Acharn Mun's hagiography (http://www.thaibuddhism.net/Achan_Man.pdf) mentions a bhikkhu who thought of making the vow to one day become a paccekabuddha by awakening in a time when there is no buddhadharma. So, this requires accumulating lifetimes of merit to achieve (more than what it takes for arahantship).

 

Pratyekabuddha's are basically crypto-realists (buddhist definition). There are differences between how Theravada and certain Mahayana traditions categorize a pratyekabuddha's realization, but generally they are described as appearing in a time when the buddhadharma hasn't been reestablished in the world by a samyaksambuddha. They are said to awaken by contemplating the 12 links of dependent origination. For simplicities sake, I would say that they gain insight into the 3 characteristics (i.e. emptiness of persons); though this would differ apparently according to some Tibetans when they say they also realize half of the emptiness of phenomena. I think this is due to namarupa (i.e. mind & body) in the 12 links.

 

In Mahayana, the pratyekabuddhayana is lower than the bodhisattvayana, but categorized as higher than the sravakayana. Links for further reading:

 

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha126.htm

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh305.pdf

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Paccekabuddha

http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/pa/pacceka_buddha.htm

 

Rigpa wiki:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Pratyekabuddha

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Pratyekabuddha_yana

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Bodhisattva_yana

Thanks...

[Jadespear]

I don't really know the terms you guys are using, but if I understand Buddhism correctly it is a hybrid form of Hinduism. It is all based on concepts and theories one cannot directly see or perceive, namely the philosophy of liberation- to escape the cycles of life and death, to not reincarnate on earth again.

 

So the sole foundation of both Hinduism and Buddhism is that reincarnation happens and is based on ones karma.

 

So here is my reservation with it all. No one can prove reincarnation happens...it's just a belief used to describe the world around us. I'm not saying it doesn't happen...but seriously how could one ever know if it did? Even if you have vivid visions of another life while meditating, how do you know it's your past life and not someone else's who is close to your frequency?

 

Furthermore, the Hindu concept of karma acts on all of us, but it is just cause and effect, the web which all of us live in. It's not good or evil...it cannot be overcome. It's not like some force that you can run away from. It's simply an ancient word used to describe the process of cause and effect on every level of existence... At least that's the way I honestly see it and understand it.

 

What do you think?

 

All through my life I have been keenly aware of the forces of attraction and repulsion. I think these forces are what moves the universe through the cosmic dance.

[RongzomFan]

I don't really know the terms you guys are using, but if I understand Buddhism correctly it is a hybrid form of Hinduism.

 

 

I am Indian raised HIndu. Hinduism is actually a hybrid of Brahmanism and Buddhism.

 

From the textbook of Dr. Upinder Singh (daughter of prime minister and noted historian):

 

"The earliest formal exposition of Advaita or non-dualistic Vedanta was put forward by Gaudapada in the 7th or 8th century in his Mandukyakarika, a verse commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad. Gaudapada was influenced by Madhyamika and Vijnanavada Buddhism."

 

If you want to see the verbatim verses Gaudapada took from Madhyamaka, you can read chapter 2 of The Method of Early Advaita Vedanta.

 

Also the Upanishads themselves were influenced by Buddhism:

 

Hajime Nakamura, Trevor Leggett. A History of Early Vedanta Philosophy, Part 2. Reprint by Motilal Banarsidass Publ., 2004 page 284-6

 

"As was pointed out in detail in the section titled Interpretation, many particular Buddhist terms or uniquely Buddhist modes of expression may be found in it."

"From the fact that many Buddhist terms are found in its explanation, it is clear that this view was established under the influence of the Mahayana Buddhist concept of Void."

"Although Buddhistic influence can be seen in the Maitri-Upanishad, the particular terms and modes of expression of Mahayana Buddhism do not yet appear, whereas the influence of the Mahayana concept of Void can clearly be recognized in the Mandukya-Upanisad."

"Although Mahayana Buddhism strongly influenced this Upanisad, neither the mode of exposition of the Madhyamika school nor the characteristic terminology of the Vijnanavada school appears."

 

Karel Werner, in The Yogi and the Mystic, states: "Patanjali's system is unthinkable without Buddhism. As far as its terminology goes there is much in the Yoga Sutras that reminds us of Buddhist formulations from the Pali Canon and even more so from the Sarvastivada Abhidharma and from Sautrantika."