David Shen Verdesi Press Release

[affenbrot]

now taiwan has a Randi too,

my guess: Jiang was somehow annoyed by this guy and wanted to get rid of a pupil with such a mindset and so pretended to reveal his abilities were only a trick.

double success: the annoying pupil is gone, plus he tells anybody else on a weblog, so Jiang is now spared by the folks he doesn't want to see around anyway.

[Neikung]

If you have a look its actually a Web Log not a Newspaper

 

As I said, the original article can be found in the Taiwanese Apple Daily http://1-apple.com.tw/apple/. You'll need to register first and then perform a search. The blog is identical to the newspaper article in the Apple Daily web site.

[forestofsouls]

I wouldn't be surprised. Evidently, using physical means to produce the electric shock effect is common in Taiwan. My tai chi teacher told me a story about how he was in Taiwan with Master Liao in the 70s. Master Liao was practicing taking electric shocks on himself. They went to see a famous electric qi master and when the master zapped Master Liao, Master Liao ripped open the man's shirt to expose a battery pack.

[DentyDao]

Nothing new under the Sun... the article is bogus of course. But, people will believe whatever they want. There were similar articles about John Chang and Wang Liping; masters even often agree to play along at the request of the Chinese government. We wouldn't want the masses to start believing in such things now would we The truth of course is that men of power like Wang Liping and Zhai Shifu are themselves goverment officials and hold tremendous influence in their communities because they are a tremendous resource.

 

I personally met the two scientists who tested the water in a mass spectrometer; it was tested against millions of existing molecular structures and could not be identified: it's not a sugar or a known substance.

 

In China, Sifu turned the bodies of over forty people into sweet necture; they were licking themselves for days and even tested their urin. He will under go clinical trials in China next year.

 

Btw, Jiang can now change the water with unopened bottles due to his recent breakthough in his own practice and did so for one of our groups which provided their own bottles.

 

The grand master, a simple monk who lives with no modern or worldly possessions, demonstrated pyrokenisis at a distance on the people that were there and materials that students provided; he demonstrated telekenisis under similar conditions; he extracted the life force from plants and animals and transfered it to those in attendence. These are but the superficial manifestations of his attainments. Again this is a man who literally has no personal possessions and lives in a cave in China, having nothing to lose or gain by such demonstrations of power.

 

Go to the foundation forum and read the testimonals of the students who went to China this last August and October to meet the 120 year old grand master and his 99 yr old student. They performed all of the above and more and made a point of disproving such claims.

 

But again, to each his own. David and his students don't really care, ultimately, what others in the media have to say because we are developing these abilities for ourselves, that is he true 'acid test;' which is really beside the point since it is a spiritual endeavor and these are but the trappings. The masters are happy to have the public believe whatever they want and leave them in peace, truly.

 

The idiot who went to the press with his story is grossly misrepresenting what Zhai Sifu does and is. Sad, but this is not an uncommon reaction. The more Zhai Sifu brings his work out to the public, the more the witch hunt will be intensified; that's is really the main reason David is keen to run clinical trials.

Edited November 20, 2007 by seandenty

[lockpaw]

Nothing new under the Sun... the article is bogus of course. But, people will believe whatever they want. There were similar articles about John Chang and Wang Liping; masters even often agree to play along at the request of the Chinese government. We wouldn't want the masses to start believing in such things now would we The truth of course is that men of power like Wang Liping and Zhai Shifu are themselves goverment officials and hold tremendous influence in their communities because they are a tremendous resource.

 

If only Mike Tyson would come forward about when he punched John Chang...

 

What I find hard to believe is how easily people swallow this stuff. Promise magical powers, charge big bucks, lots of secrets--- no red flags?

 

As Buddy says: a fool and his money are some party.

[Neikung]

There were similar articles about John Chang and Wang Liping; masters even often agree to play along at the request of the Chinese government.

 

Hi Sean:

I am not aware of any articles that support your sweeping claim above. Can you actually back this up with references (i.e. links to articles about someone with close personal experience with either John Chang or Wang Liping and claims that they are not real?).

 

Of course, we can believe whatever we want but when a large sum of money is exchanged, suspicion arises because the motivation for fraud is there. I assume from your answer that you haven't personally met Shifu Zhai.... how can you dismiss this article so easily then?

[mantis]

you struck a nerve and now you're getting lashed out

 

this is often the case. i am not attracted by the lsd path as apparently no matter how snotty or rude you are, as long as you have money you're accepted. this is evident in seandenty's case. i have been reading his posts from afar and his snotty nature of "my path is the best" and quick-to-judge connotations show he has no discipline and any teacher worth his name (i'd presume) wouldn't accept him.

 

my 0.2.

[Oolong Rabbit]

 

Btw, Jiang can now change the water with unopened bottles due to his recent breakthough in his own practice and did so for one of our groups which provided their own bottles.

 

That actually answers the question I was going to ask. That means he had the caps removed before. What's next, changing Coke into Pepsi? In the "pyrokinesis" video, my main point of contention was why Jiang had to manhandle the shirts before igniting them. Also doesn't Jiang live a rather luxurious lifestyle for a daoist monk? The commericialism is the biggest red flag of all.

 

Common now Sean.

[DentyDao]

Well, I would just simply say one, go to the foundation forum and read what David has written there. I have met Zhai Sifu and he proved to me beyond any doubt that he is real.

 

David has made an open invitation for anyone interested to come and see for themselves if it is reality or fraud. You can choose the conditions and setting and Sifu will submit to whatever checks you would like to do. Bring scientists and lawyers or whatever else you like. Free of charge.

[mantis]

if you can stand paying $5000+$200-$300 airplane ticket to go see him then sure.

[Matt]

Well, I would just simply say one, go to the foundation forum and read what David has written there. I have met Zhai Sifu and he proved to me beyond any doubt that he is real.

 

David has made an open invitation for anyone interested to come and see for themselves if it is reality or fraud. You can choose the conditions and setting and Sifu will submit to whatever checks you would like to do. Bring scientists and lawyers or whatever else you like. Free of charge.

 

LOL, I would love to see some barbeque Oolong Rabbit.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Well, I would just simply say one, go to the foundation forum and read what David has written there. I have met Zhai Sifu and he proved to me beyond any doubt that he is real.

 

David has made an open invitation for anyone interested to come and see for themselves if it is reality or fraud. You can choose the conditions and setting and Sifu will submit to whatever checks you would like to do. Bring scientists and lawyers or whatever else you like. Free of charge.

 

David's invitation if I recall, was for someone to go over, and then be exposed to Jiang's "full power". He wants them to sign a waiver in case their internal organs implode or they die, and then pay full price to meet the master. Again man, even if this was real, that tells me a lot about the nature of his practice. I sincerely hope you find whatever it is you are looking for Sean. I hope I am wrong about Jiang.

[DentyDao]

Hi Sean:

I am not aware of any articles that support your sweeping claim above. Can you actually back this up with references (i.e. links to articles about someone with close personal experience with either John Chang or Wang Liping and claims that they are not real?).

 

Of course, we can believe whatever we want but when a large sum of money is exchanged, suspicion arises because the motivation for fraud is there. I assume from your answer that you haven't personally met Shifu Zhai.... how can you dismiss this article so easily then?

 

It's fine. I would probably come to the same conclusion in your shoes. Like I said, I met Zhai personally as an insider and he demonstrated things to me that I cannot explain any other way.

 

Anyway, Wang Liping headed up a major government research project in the 1980's and was not received well and basically accused of fraud. It was very public and Wang realized that the bridge was too far to cross and happy receeded from the public eye. As for Chang, I did have a chance to speak with the guy who is the subject of this post I wrote several months ago.

 

About a year ago a friend of mine named Andy D. in Indonesia, perhaps Pak John's closest western student, told me about a guy who, in his search for Pak John, placed an article in the local Javanese paper announcing his search and offering money to anyone who who would lead him to Shifu. A bold move, I must say; I'm not making a judgment.

 

Shortly there after he found John and so did a number of local journalists, who in there greed to get a juicy story, painted Shifu as a fake and a fraud. From what I understand, John was all to willing to play along, agreeing that the Ring of Fire video and his abilities were nothing more than cheap tricks. The whole incident had many of John's students who know better, including Andy, totally outraged.

 

Apparently, according to Andy, and as I'm sure you can imagine, there is a constant parade of seekers and doubters alike knocking on Shifu's door; probably more often then he would like. When these journalists questioned him, he just told them what they wanted to hear. Which makes sense to me; why would he care what the media decides about such things? It's not like a man in his position, even with all of his power, can controll pulic opinion. If I were in his shoes, I would say whatever it takes to get some peace.

 

This is really the way it's always been in China. The masters reveal themselves on there own terms. The person who wrote that article about Jiang (zhai sifu) was not a student. Just an ignorant fool; sifu was happy to play his game and send him on his way. You can argue about the ethics, but that is the reality and it's not likely to change anytime soon; just another door in the matrix.

 

if you can stand paying $5000+$200-$300 airplane ticket to go see him then sure.

Again, it's for free if you just want to have your doubts removed. If you can get their Zhai will do whatever is necessary to convince you.

[Oolong Rabbit]

LOL, I would love to see some barbeque Oolong Rabbit.

 

Why is that now Matt? Because I hold an opposing view?

[DentyDao]

David's invitation if I recall, was for someone to go over, and then be exposed to Jiang's "full power". He wants them to sign a waiver in case their internal organs implode or they die, and then pay full price to meet the master. Again man, even if this was real, that tells me a lot about the nature of his practice. I sincerely hope you find whatever it is you are looking for Sean. I hope I am wrong about Jiang.

 

David promised me that he would not injure anyone involved. Really, David wants to clear people's doubt; often the best way to do this is to have the student play the part of test subject. Zhai sifu will use just enough energy to give you a mild burn anywhere on your body. He has gone so far as to remove his clothing and stand in the next room to prove this and will be happy to do so under any conditions you request. There are of course other ways he can show you what he does by manipulating your body in various way, all from a distance without any set up, in any location or setting. If you really want these things proven to you then please do come and see for yourself.

[Oolong Rabbit]

David promised me that he would not injure anyone involved. Really, David wants to clear people's doubt; often the best way to do this is to have the student play the part of test subject. Zhai sifu will use just enough energy to give you a mild burn anywhere on your body. He has gone so far as to remove his clothing and stand in the next room to prove this and will be happy to do so under any conditions you request. There are of course other ways he can show you what he does by manipulating your body in various way, all from a distance without any set up, in any location or setting. If you really want these things proven to you then please do come and see for yourself.

 

Sean, that's not what he said. He said on your forum what I described in my previous post. And all this talk sounds like Jiang is some sort of carnivale sideshow act performing at David's beck and call.

[DentyDao]

Sean, that's not what he said. He said on your forum what I described in my previous post. And all this talk sounds like Jiang is some sort of carnivale sideshow act performing at David's beck and call.

 

David was joking. David is a very sincere person and if people are sincere enough to come, he feels it is important to show them the truth.

 

Anyway, discussing it is not something I want to invest my time in any further. I would be dishonorable to continue to even entertain what was written about sifu. I'll end by saying that the article, again, is not the truth and Sifu and his students are a remarkable group that I'm proud to be a part of. The people I met in China were some of the most brillant, successful and compassionate people I have ever met who truly embody the Dao and help to carry the tourch fro new generations. There are many tests and illusions that must be overcome and it is the hero's journey that David has taken and that his students humbly follow.

[Adam West]

[Aporia]

 

 

Your name is Adam West...my apologies.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Interesting indeed!

 

Adam,

 

Great post mate!!

 

 

WYG

[Adam West]

Interesting indeed!

 

Adam,

 

Great post mate!!

WYG

 

Thanks mate! I enjoy the sharing of ideas on this forum, and since I had a thought or two at the time, making a contribution seems to be the friendly thing to do!

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

[jan1107]

dear adam,

 

your post touched me a lot. thank you. actually that is what i am doing right now. i stopped for a while searching for the "perfect" master. i use the tools that i already got and practice every day a lot of time more than usual.

the "results" make me very happy and thankful. your post again supported my opinion because i am also sometimes insecure when i read all those posts of all that great masters that seem to know everything. but it is my own choice to believe in that things and my own choice to follow them, give them energy or not.

 

anyway i wish all people from the foundation training that they find what they where looking for. we will only know what is good or bad if we find out ourselve or if we follow our intuition about something before we step into it. i am far beyond judging them. they seem to spend a lot of energy in their way and i respect that. i hope they will be a good help for this sometimes dark times and a light of inspiration for the people around them.

 

i think we all have to decide for ourselves what we want. and really not consume one thing after the other. real dedication is so valuable. believe in yourselve, your heart, your connection to god. we all have it ourselve. the telephone is in our hands. we do not need someone else to tell us what god (or whoever) said on the phone. all we need is caring people to motivate us to pick up the phone ourselves. and trust that the right information will come to us in the right time.

 

i know at least two people who have certain "powers" or abilitis. it doent matter what kind of. one of them even doesnt teach at all. he has a simple shop and no one knows who he is. he found the powers on a side effect going to path towards love and compassion. none of them searched for power. power searched for them. and they have no strong interest in showing them. in the end what makes them good people is the way they are treating others. with love, respect. that is what it is all about in my humble opinion. if they didnt have those "powers" i would love them anyway. because they really inspired me on my own path.

 

namaste, jan.

[DentyDao]

Edited November 20, 2007 by seandenty

[宁]

I feel SeanD is a better guy now

Good work, SeanD!

 

(I call it as I see it)

 

Little

[Neikung]

It's fine. I would probably come to the same conclusion in your shoes. Like I said, I met Zhai personally as an insider and he demonstrated things to me that I cannot explain any other way.

Anyway, Wang Liping headed up a major government research project in the 1980's and was not received well and basically accused of fraud. It was very public and Wang realized that the bridge was too far to cross and happy receeded from the public eye. As for Chang, I did have a chance to speak with the guy who is the subject of this post I wrote several months ago.

This is really the way it's always been in China. The masters reveal themselves on there own terms. The person who wrote that article about Jiang (zhai sifu) was not a student. Just an ignorant fool; sifu was happy to play his game and send him on his way.

 

Hi Sean,

Sorry to say that your argument that all the Masters have lied to lie to avoid public scrutiny rings hollow to me....I don't see the motivation in this story. As it happens, I know Richard, the guy who went looking for John Chang a few years ago...his story of what happened there is completely opposite of what you wrote in the forum..you might want to check with your source again. As for Atek, the person who went to the Taiwanese Daily Newspaper, how do you know that he was not a student? He has so much information about Shifu Zhai not found elsewhere, including Shifu Zhai's age, full name, address, Zhai's previous job as a Tui Na practitioner in XiHai hotel, his pictures etc that it is hard to believe that he was not a student or at least someone who knew Shifu Zhai well. I can understand being upset when a Master that you genuinely believe was attacked publicly but to convince people, your statements should be based on some facts. I don't see any motivation for Atek to lie in this story and I am still yet to be convinced that Shifu Zhai was simply playing game. After all, I am sure that Shifu Zhai has a reputation to uphold with the Foundation students and his students all over Asia.

 

Regards,

 

Brian