David Shen Verdesi Press Release

[HouTian]

Greetings Everybody,

 

 

Very Interesting Article to say the Least. But still im not totally convinced This teacher is a Fraud.

 

How does he Explode Rocks & other articles from a distance ??? No "Electric Touch" kit or anything similar can duplicate this !

 

What about pointing at larges masses of people & being able to replicate the same sweet nectar produced on everybodys lips at once ? Without any form of physical contact !!

 

The draining of a beings Life Force has to be witnessed first hand. No trickery can drop an animal instantly with the wave of a hand !

 

 

I Suspect the article was published out of jealousy. Why..... simply because many westerners are now doing even what many So Called Chinese Masters cant. In fact dont be suprized if the goverment produced such a story.They have done it for years to keep out prying eyes and selfishly keep it to themselfs.

 

Regards,

[Buddy]

Let's see if this can be made to make sense without the proper quotes...

 

 

From the earlier post:

"Taoist81:"Buddy,

You cannot judge the validity of Sean's school based solely on a video posted on an online messageboard."

 

Buddy:"Moniker guy,

I can and do.""

 

And you are welcome to do so, but watching a video that looks like a magic trick hardly gives you enough information to judge the teachings of a particular school.

 

I didn't watch the video. If it shows a magic trick it BS.

 

From the earlier post:

"Taoist81:"The people you speak of could just as easily be pulling the rug over peoples eyes as could Sean's teachers, or his teachers could be the real deal and your empty flower friends could be the fakes, or they could all be people who have acheived something that most only see in wuxia."

 

Buddy:"C'mon,

Martial artists regularly test each other. I've met up with a number of folks on EF and none were but they claimed to be.""

 

"Sure, martial artists often compete, one on one, in person. Apparently there is a standing offer for interested parties to come and try it out for themselves. Until that is done, your analogy doesn't work."

 

Nonsense. As a man of reason, and in that it has NEVER been shown to exist, I stand on my own justification that this is no different. Of course it works.

 

From the earlier post:

"Taoist81:"Personally anyone who claims supernatural abilities is suspect simply because there are so many convincing frauds out there, convincing at least until you see an illusionist demonstrate how a particular trick was done. But, any logical skeptic has to point out that lack of evidence is not evidence of absence,"

 

Buddy:"Sorry, this is faulty logic. Everyone dies. Do we need to test everyone to believe this?""

 

"Perhaps you should take a look at a basic level logic textbook. Do humans die? yes. Can we say that there is no such thing as an immortal because we cannot "test everyone"? No. If we made such a claim we would fall victim to the fallacy of negative proof and/or the fallacy of argument from ignorance. Is it likely that immortals exist (this is the part we will likely agree on)? No. Thus far there has been nothing put forward to suggest that anything is immortal. But you simply cannot prove that something does not exist anywhere. That is why we have the Flying Spaghetti Monster (all hail his noodley holiness)."

 

Really? Unicorns do not exist.

 

Buddy: "I didn't "pick at his teacher". I think this magic stuff is horseshit and has nothing to do with spiritual advancement even if it weren't. That someone promotes it to entice is highly suspect. I merely mentioned of my martial arts friends living in China might be keen on finding out for themselves."

 

Now this (the possibility of horseshit) is where we really agree. Magick has its place in the world, and for all intents and purposes that place is right between the ears of every human being who wishes to experience it. Hence the reason James Randi was brought up earlier. Too often things get passed off as real just because people can't figure out how the trick is done.

 

Irregardless of how much bullshit may be thrown around, if one is using logic or skepticism, on should stick to the rules of logic.

 

<Why is that? I don't accept such restriction. I have the ability to reason.

 

 

 

The rules of logic state that you cannot prove that something is not, just because there is no evidence that it is. This is the reason that science "does not comment on the supernatural". You can't prove or disprove something that is beyond or greater than the material basis tested in science. Thus "no comment".

"

 

Well now you argue for arguments sake and it's a fool's errand. I can't prove consciousness exists but I know it does.

[Taoist81]

"

 

Well now you argue for arguments sake and it's a fool's errand. I can't prove consciousness exists but I know it does.

 

Unless you are following the rules of logic then your argument runs risk of being built upon a fallacy. Fools, like Intelligent Design supports, built there arguments on fallacies. We can both agree that in all likelihood unicorns do not exist, but because it is a negative proof, we cannot "prove" it. Thus, it is a belief, albeit a very reasonable one, and not a fact. Perhaps it is foolish to continue to try to get people to see the fallacies they are using (this is the second time this has come up just this week), it is simply sad to see individual who do seem to be trying to use logic and reason, defending fallacies as if they would have to admit to some sort of magical thinking just because they can't prove it wrong. Logic and reason deal with what is provable. Thus, to stick to a logical argument, and follow reason, you cannot PROVE a negative.

 

It would be really great if you could us proper quotes so one doesn't have to go through sifting through to see if you added anything.

 

Also, please keep in mind, we do not disagree on your basic idea (and therefore cannot be arguing about it). It is only the fact that you cannot prove it. Did you take time to look into the fallacies?

[Wayfarer64]

Long ago Descartes wrote (in French)- I think therefore I am... It has become an axiom of logic in a way, maybe unprovable, but a given for many of us... If I die and am still "thinking", then I guess I will still "be" on some level, and this is indeed what I believe to be true, because...

 

I have experienced several states of out-of-body awareness (as Iam not adverse to experimenting with my consciousness just for the sake of gleaning new insights into what that consciousness may be and/or become)...

 

I say what we don't know can't help us...NOT what we don't know can't hurt us - ignorance is deadly and usually wasteful too...

 

Further- I do not hold with some basic Buddhist themes - such as all life is suffering. It is also glorious and breathtakingly devine. It seems in fact to be pretty much as we make it- if that is Karmic in nature , I can accept that as well. But I do not seek a Buddhist "Nervana"...

 

I seek a Taoist awakening in this mortal body and through my eternal spirit, with practice, patience , dilligence and compassion , I hope to find some peace of mind that will last as changes disrupt my life. This seems very doable to me at this time ...I can let go of most problems, possessions and even dreams as I advance my inner selfs' strengths and get past the draw-backs and weaknesses that I still maintain...

 

I assume a good teacher would be of some help in my questings, but have not heard of one I am willing to "follow" as yet...

 

Peace my brothers & sisters - let yr changes be all for the better-

xo-Pat

[Pero]

So when you sleep and don't have thoughts you don't exist?

 

And eternalism is an extreme, for some people I think they want to believe it because they are afraid of dying. But it's still better to be an eternalist than a nihilist.

[Cameron]

Since starting Kunlun and getting transmisison from Max I have had some nights of dreamless sleep. You go to sleep..then you wake up. No stories..no adventures..no nothing..just sleep.

 

All these things are basically entertainment. I like what I learned from Zen. When walking..you are walking. When working..you are working. When practicing..you are practicing.

 

My sense is the "higher level" is to do your practice(whatever that is for you) and just do whatever you are doing in your life completely with your entire being.

[Buddy]

"Unless you are following the rules of logic then your argument runs risk of being built upon a fallacy. "

 

A risk I'm willing to take. Reason takes the place of logic. I'm afraid logic does not always hold sway in the real world. I'll take Occam's razor, thanks.

[Taoist81]

"Unless you are following the rules of logic then your argument runs risk of being built upon a fallacy. "

 

A risk I'm willing to take. Reason takes the place of logic. I'm afraid logic does not always hold sway in the real world. I'll take Occam's razor, thanks.

 

As you wish, friend, but considering that Occam's razor is based on logic (Occam was a logician after all), and thereby the rules of logic, it seems like a silly claim. Have fun with that.

[Buddy]

Not at all, the razor is still an assumption based on known quantities. We speculate, therefore we are. But, as you say, we're probably on the same side of this one.

[HouTian]

Greetings,

 

I have not seen this discussion bought up on Davids Private Forum(maybe i missed it?). I wonder if any of the Foundation Training Students are aware of this Article ? Would they dont mind if i posted the Link over there .

 

What is david verdesi saying about his Shifu Jiang being called a Fraud in the links posted by Nekung.

 

Neikung also mentioned that Shifu Jiang was a tuina teacher at Xihai Hotel,is he still there or any of his students teaching ?

 

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/flyzenmaster-wi...3&next=1571

 

I want to keep this topic alive as to get a decent response from various members.

 

Regards,

Houtian.

[WuXingQi]

I don't need proof that these things exist because I've personally experienced them. I also do not seek "powers" as part of enlightenment and happiness. In general I seek to strengthen my mind, my focus, and my compassion. This will naturally allow me to act creatively in a loving manner with greater and greater abilities. However, these abilities can be a good indicator of the experience level of a teacher, so I think it's appropriate for a teacher to demonstrate for students, but not necessarily for the whole world. Context is important. As a software engineer and manager I know that knowledge is always presented to different audiences with differing levels of filters and controls. Anyone who has ever possessed knowledge of importance will understand this, those that have not... may not.

 

That being said, I do not personally think I would be impressed with a teacher burning or shocking me somehow by touch or non-touch. As mentioned here it can be done with various electromagnetic and/or microwave devices. However, I would be more impressed with the teacher demonstrating telekinetic abilities. If I could choose an object that is non magnetic (like a stuffed miniture toy bear or something), and pull it out of my pocket and hold it in my hand and the teacher can pull the object from my hand from several feet away without touching me in in any way I would then be impressed. Any object can be affected by electromagnetism with sufficient levels of power, but the power necessary to affect a miniture pooh bear with no metal in it would be way too big for a human to hide in their body or under their clothes .

 

Regards

[dunbar]

However, I would be more impressed with the teacher demonstrating telekinetic abilities. If I could choose an object that is non magnetic (like a stuffed miniture toy bear or something), and pull it out of my pocket and hold it in my hand and the teacher can pull the object from my hand from several feet away without touching me in in any way I would then be impressed. Any object can be affected by electromagnetism with sufficient levels of power, but the power necessary to affect a miniture pooh bear with no metal in it would be way too big for a human to hide in their body or under their clothes .

 

i found this article on david shens forum. according to this student, jiangs master who is 117 yrs old can move objects and more... the article is sincere and well written- imho

 

i'm really close to going to china with david- they are saying there are over 100 masters who can do this stuff- all students of jiang and his brother. numbers like that seem pretty hard to ignor- it will be interesting to see if they do the research and what happens after- too bad their forum will close

 

http://www.foundation73.proboards55.com/in...ge=1#1193684029

[WuXingQi]

i found this article on david shens forum. according to this student, jiangs master who is 117 yrs old can move objects and more... the article is sincere and well written- imho

 

i'm really close to going to china with david- they are saying there are over 100 masters who can do this stuff- all students of jiang and his brother. numbers like that seem pretty hard to ignor- it will be interesting to see if they do the research and what happens after- too bad their forum will close

 

http://www.foundation73.proboards55.com/in...ge=1#1193684029

 

Thank you. I do not have access to this forum, and it seems a long process to apply.

[thunderindo]

.

Edited September 20, 2013 by thunderindo

[DentyDao]

Edited November 30, 2007 by seandenty

[joeblast]

words such as these were what I had in mind when I asked if people had been to the foundation forum. well put, sean.

[宁]

[Buddy]

Egad, more of the most obvious and despicable fakery.

[lockpaw]

Egad, more of the most obvious and despicable fakery.

 

No way man! Did you not SEE that those Hale-Bopp comet cult guys couldn't, like, even TOUCH him?

[林愛偉]

No way man! Did you not SEE that those Hale-Bopp comet cult guys couldn't, like, even TOUCH him?

 

 

This has become an interesting thread indeed... haha

[WuXingQi]

It would be nice for someone to do one of these demonstrations (even on video) with a well known MMA fighter who is a non-student of the teacher. THEN, at least there would be enough to make people go Hmmmmmmm.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Wuxing,

 

Exactly!!!

 

But if he can burn things from a distance maybe this would be a good escape from "Guiltine" or "Triangle"?

 

Max vs chuck liddle fight UFC lol

 

Maybe you should check out Lama Thunderbolt cause in his clip people are flying through the air and women having orgasms from touch and no touch!!!

 

WYG

[joeblast]

Wouldnt it make sense that it always works on the students because the masters have given them transmissions and know which energy channels of the student are able to be used safely? Noone that can really do this would do this on someone they didnt 'know' energetically to an extent because at that point it ceases to be a safe thing to do.

[WuXingQi]

I'm not saying I doubt it's possible, I only doubt that this particular individual is really doing it. I've actually done something similar in smaller scale to several friends during qi gong practice as well as when giving girl friends massages. However, it was done without control (not on purpose). For example, if I've done quite a bit of meditation and stored a lot of yang, the moment I would touch my girlfriend lightly on one shoulder in preparation to give her a massage she would have a strong spasm of that arm and it would jerk upward. I've also felt it pass from me into the person when this happens (but I'm not always aware of it). Again this is not on purpose, but happens so frequently I can't imagine what else it might be... and I am not in control of it because I can't willingly do it (although I fear that in a confrontation it would happen naturally).

 

I think I've seen enough of John Chang to be convinced. When you see him touching people and seeing very real spasms in their muscles, that's not so easy to fake I think, and I doubt the whole camera crew and everyone visiting is in on it (although I suppose it might be some hidden device, but at one point he's nearly naked).

 

However, in the demonstration of this other guy in the video it would be much more convincing iff the students were actually in the air (say a flying side kick) and then in the middle of the air were stopped by some invisible force and propelled backward without ever being touched or having their feet on the floor. Of course, then we would all say it might be on invisible strings... so maybe Chuck Lidell against this guy would still be better.

[vitagong]

I think Dr Young may have something, I have a bit of research on him, but my view point is just another view point so its not so important.

 

However

 

You might find this one easier to determine....poor guy

 

 

 

To be honest...I would not really call any of this stuff Chi projection atually. But just thought I would use common terms.