When John Chang says....

[Awen]

... "this chi stuff is only the surface of the real adventure beneath in the meditational technique"

 

What does he mean?

[Thunder_Gooch]

Exactly what he says, you will not believe it until you experience it for yourself in the deepest states of meditation. I frequently challenge skeptics to GO and SEE for themselves.

 

You will not be able to remain a skeptic for long when you see and experience things first hand.

Edited June 21, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

“You know how in meditation we slow down our breathing and our pulse? It’s because we move more and more into our yin consciousness.”

 

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (p. 52)

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Where does yin ch’i come from?” Andreas asked.

 

“From the earth. The yin comes from the earth. It is some kind of field phenomenon that feeds our lifeforce. It can be blocked by insulators. For example, if you have a carpet made from synthetic materials in your house, the yin ch’i cannot pass through it. That’s not so good for your health. “The yin ch’i enters the body through an acupuncture point that we call hui yin, he added. “It’s located between the urinary tract and the anus.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 104).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He explained to me, “Your yin comes from the earth and you need to be connected to it.” He said I have to sit outside on the ground. This was somewhat troubling because where I live it snows about twice a year and rains a lot, so while he was telling me this I was trying to figure how I was going to be able to do it. He also told me yang comes from the air and enters the energy point on the top of your head. And it needs to be equally balanced with my yin which enters another energy point at the area of your perineum.

 

McMillan, Jim Seeking the Master of Mo Pai (p. 178).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“What is actual meditation like?” I asked.

 

“There are no thoughts and there is no sense of time. If you are

thinking, you are not in meditation. If you are aware of yourself, you

are also not in meditation. You must become like a baby in the womb,

there and yet not there. Meditation is like the borderline between

sleep and waking, between consciousness and unconsciousness.”

 

“Very difficult.”

 

“Not so difficult, Kosta. You stayed in meditation for long peri-

ods when you were an embryo and a baby, and you pass through it

now each time you drift off to sleep. You just have to remember how.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 82)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I will enter total meditation—like the borderline between sleep and waking, okay?"

 

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (p. 56)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As it turned out, this training would take as much or more than five hundred hours of meditation just to accumulate the eighty one hours of what would be termed “focused concentration.” I hadn't ever known this before, and from that I found there was a distinct difference between meditation and concentration.

 

Jim McMillan. Seeking the Master of Mo Pai: Adventures with John Chang (p. 40).

 

 

 

 

 

We use concentration and relaxation to approach meditation, but in essence meditation happens by itself.

 

Kosta Danaos Nei Kung: The Secret Teachings of the Warrior Sages (p. 128).

 

 

 

 

 

Now, a beginning student cannot hold his concentration for long. Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually in meditation for 1.3 minutes.'

 

 

The Magus of Java p82

 

 

 

 

Countless different Qigong and meditation exercises exist. All teach the basic idea of using consciousness to go into the emptiness where thoughts ultimately cease or greatly diminish and sensory connections to our bodies fade. We and everything in our world are all from the emptiness and will go back to the emptiness. It is a state of pure energy where we are one with the universe.

 

 

 

We use sensation of the body to feel the moving Qi.

 

 

Deep and long breathing has always been vital in all forms of Qigong.

 

-Chunyi Lin (Spring Forest Qigong)

Edited August 7, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[ChiDragon]

Deep and long breathing has always been vital in all forms of Qigong.

 

-Chunyi Lin (Spring Forest Qigong)

 

 

 

This is the only valid quote or something is close to that effect.

Edited June 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Thunder_Gooch]

lol

 

This is the only valid quote or something is close to that effect.

[Mudfoot]

You can find many interesting things in the depths of your mind, and meditation is the high road to get there. And if/when you do, more basic qi-work will be, well, still basic.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Many people understand meditation to be "just this one thing". There are thousands of meditations, thousands of different states, not all do the same thing.

Saying: "I meditate" doesn't tell us a whole lot about what you actually do.

The state of consciousness and form of meditation JC talks about isn't widely known or taught.

When you reach the state he describes and can maintain it; your ability to perceive, feel, and work with energy is increased many thousand fold compared what is possible in normal waking consciousness.

 

Many people believe: "Oh I can feel chi strongly now and I don't have to be in a deep state of meditation", no you can't you are just deluding yourself, it isn't even in the same ballpark.

Yes it is very basic, but what you are doing is a very basic and repetitive task in the optimal state to do it in.

Imagine your goal was to fill an empty swimming pool with water, would you rather carry the water by hand with no tools at all, or would you rather use a cart you could fill with 5 gallon buckets?

Lot's of people get into this mindset of: "this isn't an advanced technique, I want to learn the advanced stuff."

Well you have to have chi before you can do anything with it, an advanced technique will not do anything at all if you do not have any chi stored away.

 

This isn't magick where you cast a spell or perform a ritual, this is where you spend thousands of hours to extract real energy from the world and store it inside yourself for later use.

It takes thousands of hours to fully fill your LDT unless you are an absolute master of meditation and focus.

“Yes, but. . . .”

“No buts!” he interrupted. “Anyone with ch’i can learn how to do this. It’s nothing!” He thought that statement over for a second, then added, “But first you must have ch’i.”

The Magus of Java - Kosta Danaos - Page 158

You can find many interesting things in the depths of your mind, and meditation is the high road to get there. And if/when you do, more basic qi-work will be, well, still basic.

Edited June 22, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[voidisyinyang]

Exactly -- I wanted to clarify your quotes about drawing in the yin chi from the Earth - JAJ does so in his new Neigong book:

 

 

 

Of the Three Dantians, the Lower Dantian is closest to the Earth, is the most Yin, and has the strongest ability for gathering Earth Qi. In Medical Qigong, once students have learned to conserve and circulate their own Qi, they can increase it by connecting to the unlimited reservoirs of Qi in the natural environment. Earth energy is the first form of external Qi with which the Qigong practitioner connects. This energetic connection to the Earth is important for several reasons.

1. First, Qigong practitioners need the Yin

grounding power of the Earth Qi to counterbalance

the gathered active Yang energy from

Qigong exercises. Without grounding in Earth

Qi, many Qigong practitioners develop Qi

deviations in the form of Excess Heat.

2. Second, each person's supply of Qi is limited.

When Qigong doctors extend their Qi to heal

others, they deplete their personal supply of

Qi unless they are able to simultaneously replenish

their supply from outside sources.

Even people who do not practice Medical

Qigong draw Earth Qi into their Lower Dantians.

By practicing Qigong and using conscious intent,

the amount of Earth Qi drawn into the body is

vastly increased

[林愛偉]

All of these quotes sound just like Chan practice, and Daoist meditation practices as how I learned it.

But for some reason, the quotes don't come up when I quote them.. lol

 

Edited June 23, 2013 by 林愛偉

[Thunder_Gooch]

You must be both awake and asleep, and neither awake nor asleep. In between both, and neither. A state where you no longer experience the outside world, nor your own existence, yet neither do you feel as though you cease to exist.

 

If you cannot maintain that state you aren't where you need to be for this type of meditation.

 

It also involves a huge reduction in oxygen metabolism, heart rate, etc. You would be pronounced clinically dead.

 

You must also be grounded to the earth during meditation.

 

There is also more to it, but it's not something I can comment on.

 

 

All of these quotes sound just like Chan practice, and Daoist meditation practices as how I learned it.

But for some reason, the quotes don't come up when I quote them.. lol

Edited June 23, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Kasuku]

^ more pai guy are you still on level 1?

[Thunder_Gooch]

No.

 

^ more pai guy are you still on level 1?

Edited June 23, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Kasuku]

dude i just asked you a question... relax - all im asking is if you got the vibration in the dantian yet to signal your COMPLETION of level 1...

 

I havent fused yin and yang yet...

[Thunder_Gooch]

I've gotten heat like molten lava, physically painful, full body vibrations like earthquakes during meditation, and during normal activities, and clear vision of the room I am meditating in while blindfolded.

 

I plan on continuing till I have accumulated 4000 hours in my log book to make absolutely sure that my LDT is full. I also plan on filling the other 2 dan tiens as well.

Edited June 23, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Kasuku]

Cool okay! so when ur dantian starts vibrating then you know you can start compressing...

Idk about the 4000 hours - its traditionally (in all other daoist and neigong schools) supposed to take 100 days no ejaculation to complete this.

 

to speed up the process try doing ur level 1 reverse breathing all the time during the day. When in lotus position in the void state (between wake and asleep) u draw in most energy ( 1 hour full lotus = 3 hours half lotus = 9 hour cross legged. or something like that)

 

But u can significantly speed it up if ur always doing the breathing....

[Thunder_Gooch]

Feeling heat and vibration is not 100% certain to guarantee a full LDT, only JC can tell for sure.

 

I would rather be safe than sorry so I will continue till I have gotten 4000 hours per dan tien, and there are three total.

 

Wang Liping (Longmen Pai) told us the order in which they should be filled is lower, upper, middle.

 

 

It is my understanding that the actual compression is done in meditation level 2b, and level 2a is a supplementary exercise.

 

Cool okay! so when ur dantian starts vibrating then you know you can start compressing...

Idk about the 4000 hours - its traditionally (in all other daoist and neigong schools) supposed to take 100 days no ejaculation to complete this.

 

to speed up the process try doing ur level 1 reverse breathing all the time during the day. When in lotus position in the void state (between wake and asleep) u draw in most energy ( 1 hour full lotus = 3 hours half lotus = 9 hour cross legged. or something like that)

 

But u can significantly speed it up if ur always doing the breathing....

[Kasuku]

well of course you continue to do the level 1 med - well untill youve reached the golden fetus stage where that would harm the embryo...

yeah vibration doesnt mean its 100% full... it just means its full enough to start compressing...

 

Well in wang liping yes they do it like that cause the have lower field middle filed communication, and you have to cultivate ur prenatal virtues of the yin organs and the LING QI until they unite at the third eye for the white light... im doing that too...

 

level 1 fill, level 2 compress, level 3 move, level 4 fuse,

Or the level 1, 2a, 2b, level 3

 

Whatever the name jim's 2a compression does compess, but you can use others methods like condensing breathing etc

[林愛偉]

Yes, yes and Yes. :-)

 

 

You must be both awake and asleep, and neither awake nor asleep. In between both, and neither. A state where you no longer experience the outside world, nor your own existence, yet neither do you feel as though you cease to exist.

 

If you cannot maintain that state you aren't where you need to be for this type of meditation.

 

It also involves a huge reduction in oxygen metabolism, heart rate, etc. You would be pronounced clinically dead.

 

You must also be grounded to the earth during meditation.

 

There is also more to it, but it's not something I can comment on.

[voidisyinyang]

When the lower tan tien is filled the body will be filled with strong electromagnetic fields - you will have telepathy, telekinesis as healing energy and you will be able to sit in full lotus for 2 hours nonstop in ease - or as Wang Liping had to do -- 4 hours nonstop - but he was not in ease -- he was tied down. haha.

 

So vibration just means that there is some yang energy being created - the positive principle as Taoist Yoga calls it. So then you sublimate the positive principle and add more spirit fire to it -- physical celibacy is not enough - it has to be mind celibacy on Emptiness for 100 days. At that time there is the erection that does not go away - and this is the real alchemical agent when the lower tan tien is full.

 

Probably want to stay off the internet for that.

 

I would do this in a second but I live with four females who attack me if I start building up my energy. haha.

[Kasuku]

I see what you saying actually now...

Yes its all about transforming your post-natal acquired mind, into the pre-natal virtues because they are housed in the 5 yin organs.

Spirit fire = Ling qi - to build that up you need emptiness

 

This should create the six root vibrations...

[voidisyinyang]

Mind emptiness. Hmm is that why whenever I do a small-small loop, which is a small type of MCO from YJM's book, I end up just spurting it out anyways. I'm serious. Whenever I do that loop, I have to make sure to do chapter 10 exercise of closing the two laogong points. Otherwise, I go to sleep and have a "real" dream and end up loosing it. I haven't reached a samadhi state yet. Unlike you guys, I've been practicing for a far less time. But i practice for up to hours a day. But those dreams get to me, man.

 

Regarding MPG, Wang Liping training was crazy! That guy definitely entered into a samadhi state with the harsh training he been through. I actually wish I had such teachers otherwise I wouldn't be complaining about twelve minutes of half lotus.

 

 

Yeah I make sure to do at least an hour of full lotus meditation before sleeping.

 

That's besides sitting in full lotus the whole time at the computer.

 

So I work outside with a pick axe, hand saw, shovel, etc. then come in side for a full lotus computer break. haha. It stretches out the lower back, recharges me, etc.

 

Umm.... but yeah full lotus meditation - Chunyi says 20 minutes of it is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation.

 

Yogananda says full lotus "burns bad karma."

 

Qigong master Jim Nance says full lotus meditation "automatically purifies your energy."

 

So yeah any practice that just relies on the mind - I don't trust my mind much less any one elses. haha.

 

So first I rely on full lotus and then empty out the mind, etc.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah when I take a nap, it hits me the most because I'm tired and have a headache. I hear that once you have muscle memory in your perineum, it helps prevent that from happening.

 

I gotta make sure to do it whenever I do small-small loop. The energy builds up and sometimes I'm sick and stomach hurts from the type of food I eat. I lay down and there goes my progress. Seems like when you move chi, it's easier to run into demonic states that prevent you from progressing.

 

 

We are constantly bombarded by evil thoughts in modern society -- t.v., online, etc. So that's why I have to sit in full lotus as much as possible.

 

But still - like the MCO is for - even if you build up the chi - like if I don't cycle it - to refine it more into shen energy - then it can still be deconverted during sleep.

 

ummm... If I am dreaming than usually I will wake myself up from a dream before it is too late and then my pc muscle is flexing and I just go into full lotus.

 

Sometimes though the loss is from no dream that is remembered, etc.

 

So yeah it's stated that lust and over eating can be neutralized through meditation but if there is drowsiness then that is the worst.

 

So what I do is I go into full lotus and then I just fall asleep in full lotus. So I figure then that makes sure to purify the energy.

 

But yeah that chapter 10 exercise is a great help -- cycling the eyes -- I can really feel that pulling up the energy and purifying it - with the mudra.

 

You might want to try fasting - you are already vegetarian right?

 

So it just depends on your age, how much you exercise, etc. but if you can meditate more and then maybe try fasting.

 

I did a 8 day fast and that's when my energy was the strongest - real strong electromagnetic energy.

[voidisyinyang]

Not completely vegetarian. But with the way my intestines are acting. Gonna be eating vegetables for weeks now haha. Small amounts of meat.

 

I do sitting meditation for 3 hrs a day. Standing meditation for 1 hr. Tai chi for 1 hr and circle walking for 1 hr. Then I take a nap in the afternoon and relax. It all depends on how much time I can put in and the time periods of when I eat. I wait a while after eating to practice more.

 

I think there may be something for sleeping. Like sleep yoga but yet works even when you're not dreaming.

 

Funny thing is that I rarely have sexual thoughts but it manifests in a dream. Been just watching X-files or some anime. Don't have sex scenes in those. Even if they do, I don't mind it. Be aware of the false thought and let it go.

 

 

The thing about this issue is that it is subconscious light spirit energy - it's not based on your thoughts. So don't trust your mind to say - oh that didn't bother me, etc. It takes training to note when there is activation - like Taoist Yoga says - the top of the brain sends a signal which then turns the chi in the lower abdomen to create fluid. That happens like light speed and it can be subconscious. But if it is not reversed -- sublimated back into chi and ideally into shen energy - then it can be lost.

 

Yeah I mean obviously - you said 3 hrs of sitting and 3 hrs of standing a day? That's a lot of meditation!

 

That's great but if you are losing it then progress maybe difficult.

 

Thetaobums is full of subconscious energy that will activate this fluid -- so the irony is for serious training it's best to not watch t.v., movies, or the internet.

 

But yeah like X-files - my take on that show is that all those paranormal phenomenon they experience are just subconscious projections of the sexual tension between Scully and Mulder. Sorry if I ruined the show for you. haha. But that is how a lot of parapsychologists - like Nandor Fodor and Stan Gooch - that is how they extend Freudian analysis and it makes sense in terms of tantra dynamics, etc.

 

So I mean you take a traditional kungfu film -- it has to be old school - which means probably before 1978 or 1980 -- and so that is almost exclusively a male only realm.

 

So anyway I have watched I think all of those old skool kungfu flicks -- so I would have to watch them again. I suppose I could - since otherwise it's difficult to find films that fit the standards.

 

Yeah for me I just have to rely on full lotus to really empty out the mind - like loud cracking sounds in my skull - it's not a cerebral thing but a physical emptying. haha.

 

But yeah obviously modern culture is always going to be against these standards.

Edited June 24, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

I've never had a cell phone!! hahaha.

 

My phone was tapped by the FBI back when I was doing Earth First activism and tons of other activism - and so -- cell phones can be tracked - and anyway ....

 

for whatever reason - I just stopped having a phone and never got a cell -- also the microwaves.

 

We have a cordless in our house and the microwaves are so strong - I am very sensitive to that. I get a strong headache - and I've researched it also.

 

So anyway qigong master Jim Nance just got a new cell phone because the microwave energy was way less. When he showed it to me he was pulling out the blockages from the phone. haha.

 

Then when he called me once in his car and he was going to go into the store and I heard loud beeping and Jim goes - oops I set off the car alarms again. He said how his energy sets off car alarms. haha.

 

well --

[Tung]

If you are having trouble with microwaves may be you should have a look at BioGeometry.

 

The creators say they have done a lot of scientific studies but im not so sure its done right.

 

Any way interesting stuff.