The Enneagram

[freeform]

We've had enneagram threads before, but I've recently been finding a lot of inspiration from it and thought I'd re-approach the topic again, and perhaps some of the newer Bums who havent heard of it before could explore it.

 

At the very superficial level the enneagram is a system of personality typing... and that's how I saw it the first time I was introduced to it... but recently I've been getting a lot more out of it... It's an ancient system that is very compatible with the Taoist model, the types are based on the constitution of the three dan tiens and can help one discover their attachments, life patterns, and the parts of ourself that we tend to hide from eachother (and ourselves)...

 

anyway, if you'd like to discover what may be your 'type', you can do this excellent online test

 

then you can read about your, and other people's types on Thomas Condon's site and on Jerry Stocking's site

 

so, what's your type? and what do you think about this whole thing?

[fatherpaul]

interesting

helper/thinker/artist/peacemaker

hmmmm

[QiDr]

I share office space with a PhD psychologist from Germany who uses Enneagram typing in his work. His suggested reading for any of you who are interested is:

 

Understanding the Enneagram

~Don Richard Riso

 

Discovering the Enneagram

~ Richard Rohr

 

Personally, I do not subscribe to personality typing, There have been attempts made at this since ancient times (five phase typing), and none of it has been usefull to me as a clinician.

[Peregrino]

As I had suspected, my score was radically different from what came up when I tried a similar test seven years ago. The first time I tried out the Enneagram I was a strong 4 (the artistic, reserved type . . . sensitive to the point of being in love with my own feelings!), while this time I came out as a strong 1 (Reformer, rationalist, idealist). I think a big part of my transformation was my rejection of "pacifism at all costs" (or "agreeableness," when referring to everyday social interactions).

 

Then again, these personality tests often just seem to reflect the mood of the moment.

[freeform]

Then again, these personality tests often just seem to reflect the mood of the moment.

 

That's very interesting... because type 4s tend to take on type 1 characteristics when comfortable and type 2 characteristics when stressed...

 

I dont actually think of the enneagram as a personality test, although you generally approach it first by filling out a test... I'm finding it very usefull and valuable as a spiritual tool...

 

I'm a type 9, which is an instinctual type (operates from the belly) and has a big prolem with anger (expressing it)... which I discovered in myself, and then found the enneagram to correlate... a type 9 likes to bring opposing energies into balance... the story of my life

[Yoda]

that's a great test. I thought I was a 9, but really I'm a 5. That feels more accurate. Or maybe I just changed my tune? Thanks for the link!

[forestofsouls]

Then again, these personality tests often just seem to reflect the mood of the moment.

 

I agree. There seems to be a western assumption that we have an enduring personality but this just isn't the case.

 

This is an odd use of the enneagram. From what I understand from Gurdjieff, the enneagram symbolizes at least two major laws from his system: the law of three (that everything has a passive, active, and neutralizing component) and the law of seven (that thing develop in an uneven way). The concept of the enneagram is much more fluid.

 

The most ironic thing about this is that Gurdjieff warned about believing in an enduring self and the danger of the false personality. But then, according to Gs own system, things often come to represent the exact opposite of where they started (i.e. Christianity based on love, then used to justify killing/slaughter).

 

PS: Per the test, I'm a type 1, then 3, then 4

Edited March 31, 2007 by forestofsouls

[freeform]

I agree. There seems to be a western assumption that we have an enduring personality but this just isn't the case.

 

The way I understand it, the enneagram is an attempt to direct you to your 'true nature' ... not really personality (ego)... It's actually quite a Taoist concept that we each have a natural way of being that is different from one another... Pietro's post in the Taoist sex thread commenting on the constitution of each individual's sexual nature brought that home to me.

 

I sometimes see it in a kind of energetic way.... the pure light of early heaven wuji turns into a nine coloured rainbow, each of us taking on a colour to experience in later heaven... ofcourse this colour is then tinted and marred by our ego and 'personality'...

 

I'm a fan of Gurdjieff (I'm the same nationality) and certainly see the law of three is apparent in people... Being a type 9, I tend to neutralise and shy away from polar arguments (I re-read a few of my posts here and it's quite evident I always try to bring polar discussions back to neutrality), my dad and my boss are both 8s and have a very active, explosive energy to them. it facinates me how quickly they make decisions...

 

On the last enneagram thread Sean posted something about New Equations who use the body to reveal and embody your enneagram type... They have a really great website, which is definately worth checking out...

 

Again you could use the enneagram as a pesonality typing system (which is how it's packaged these days, because there is not a huge interest in its spiritual application) or you can use it to explore yourself and relate to others, which is, I believe, the most usefull way of looking at it...

[Taomeow]

I'm a fan of Gurdjieff (I'm the same nationality)

 

Gamarjoba, genazvale!

 

I took the test a bunch of years ago. In fact, several versions thereof. Anyone care to guess my enneagram? -- we are disproportionately represented among eighty- and ninety-year-old rock-climbers and skuba-divers, and when we're good, we're very, very good, but when we're bad, we do ourselves in with sex, drugs and rock-n-roll.

[sean]

Gamarjoba, genazvale!

 

I took the test a bunch of years ago. In fact, several versions thereof. Anyone care to guess my enneagram? -- we are disproportionately represented among eighty- and ninety-year-old rock-climbers and skuba-divers, and when we're good, we're very, very good, but when we're bad, we do ourselves in with sex, drugs and rock-n-roll.

7!

 

I am a 4w5 btw. As if I haven't made that completely obvious.

[Wayfarer64]

I took this "test" because of the apparent tie to Gurdjieff. I was not familiar with the system before now.

I scored +7 as a two type and -8 as a nine type...

 

So I must be in a nurturing mood right now... I will try again when I'm feeling less happy and open to see if there is a marked change...

 

It does seem tied into a current emotional basis...If my circumstances were very different I don't think I would answer the same way. So I do not see the tie in to the true natural being that I am but rather the personality I am experiencing at the time.

 

It may be that several takes would show a pattern, or a more comprehensive test...But I tried to think of these questions in term of the "usual me" and I am not so sure that I succeded.

[thelerner]

I am a 5, a Thinker. Works for me.

 

In these tests I'm often middle of the road. Its unusual for me to be a 1 or 5.

 

Michael

[Eric23]

Last time I took the test (not that long ago) it came out a 4 artist. This time it came out a 9 with 4 in second place. Both seem to fit my perception of myself.

[Taomeow]

7!

 

Right!!!

 

What does 4w5 mean? I'm rusty...

[Yoda]

7s have the most fun.

[thelerner]

This brings up the questions- Do you think it is accurrate and Are you happy with your number?

 

I don't believe in astrology, but I like my sign, libra on the cusp of scorpio. Who knows maybe I'd 'fit' some other one better, but I do like the slightly edgy even handedness the sign implies.

 

 

Michael

[Wayfarer64]

I am a pieces/horse with cancer rising and enjoyed but do not give much credence to - the many readings that I have had given to me over the years...

 

This system actually seems even less reliable to me, I tried the questions again with a more conservative, less emotional approach and got a very different result...

 

All these attitudes are a part of each of us and some may be more on the surface than others from time to time and maturity will change us etc,,, So I do not accept any system of such propensities very seriously as a rule... But I have always enjoyed thinking of the "cosmic" ties involved...

[freeform]

Gamarjoba, genazvale!

 

hehe

 

actually I'm Armenian... but I have a bit of Georgian blood too...

 

I must admit that taking this kind of test is the most artificial way of learning about the enneagram... but it does give you a starting point. I'd recomend getting your test results and then reading about that Type on the other two websites that I gave the links to in my first post... then read about the other types and see which ones resonate...

 

Wayfarer, I thought you were a 2 before this thread... you seem to have a gift of really deeply connecting with people.

 

7s are definately fun... a few of my friends are 7s, and it's hard to keep up with them - you're so active! Meow, in another post you wrote your interpretation of the mountain trigram - a lot of stillness inside, a lot of action on the outside... seems like a very healthy 7... my 7 friends find it quite hard (and possibly boring) to look deeply into themselves... it kind of scares them...

[seadog]

Can someone please tell me what the purpose of this test is?I had a look at the questions and couldn't understand how one could possibly answer them.And even if you did answer them one way today would you answer the sameway tommorrow?Perhaps this is just a typical 7 questions.

[freeform]

Can someone please tell me what the purpose of this test is?I had a look at the questions and couldn't understand how one could possibly answer them.And even if you did answer them one way today would you answer the sameway tommorrow?Perhaps this is just a typical 7 questions.

 

 

Not sure why you're finding answering the questions so hard... just be honest and dont over-think the answers... and dont answer how you would like yourself to be, just how you are now... it isn't meant to be hard or too serious... if you think you would answer differently when in a different mood, then why not try it when you are in a different mood, see if you get a different result... also read through the other links and see which type you resonate with.

 

The purpose of the test is to find your enneagram type... and some people find the enneagram a valuable tool to learn more about themselves

[sean]

Right!!!

 

What does 4w5 mean? I'm rusty...

4w5 = 4 with 5 wing = introspective, moody, analytical, melodramatic, melancholic, sensitive, romantic, artistic, addictive, searching ... tend to feel as if something is always missing, oscillate between feeling defective at a core level and feeling distinctly special and unique even in a superior way and sometimes for identical reasons as they felt defective.

 

This brings up the questions- Do you think it is accurrate and Are you happy with your number?

When I read the description of a Four it was like getting punched in the stomach. I couldn't believe how accurate it was for me. I felt embarrassed actually. Since then I've read just about every Enneagram of personality book/article I could find and feel like I have learned a lot about myself which in turn has helped me to grow.

 

I also want to second freeform's point ... taking one of these online test is not the best way of discovering your number or getting the most from the personality Enneagram. The best way is to get a good personality Enneagram book, read through all of the type descriptions until one of them freaks you out with how much it nails your hidden agendas.

 

Sean

[freeform]

4w5 = 4 with 5 wing = introspective, moody, analytical, melodramatic, melancholic, sensitive, romantic, artistic, addictive, searching ... tend to feel as if something is always missing, oscillate between feeling defective at a core level and feeling distinctly special and unique even in a superior way and sometimes for identical reasons as they felt defective.

 

My current girlfriend is a 4... there is definately a 'special woundedness' that I feel when I 'connect'. One thing you 4's do that astounds me every time is how emotionally perceptive you are... It frightens me sometimes (being a 9, it's hard for me to feel the turmoil of emotions)... I could be talking to my girlfriend, and unknowingly go into my head and illusions... and before I've even realised it myself, I hear a dramatic "what's wrong?"

 

There is a way that 4's tend to use their eyes that I don't recognise in others... (maybe just a bit in 2's)... There is a real sense of deep connection when the heart is not blocked... And that's the thing - I like type 4 girls, but most that I've met are really scared to connect, but when they do it's beyond words... I feel more connected to my and the girls heart than I can ever be just with my own effort...

 

So all you 4's please nurture your incredible ability to connect with your heart (beneath the emotional turmoil), you're amazing when you do!

[sean]

So all you 4's please nurture your incredible ability to connect with your heart (beneath the emotional turmoil), you're amazing when you do!

Wow, well said freeform, great post and great advice. The difference that I've noticed between 2's and 4's ability to emotionally connect is the 2's MASTERY of when and how to smoothly disconnect. I am always amazed by how gracefully 2's can connect and disconnect (and everything in between) with people at the appropriate depth and timing. I think fours struggle with the transition from the really deep connections we are capable of (and crave) back to "ordinary" practical communication "ok, but what do you want to eat?" and even worse to disconnecting, ie: having to walk away or say goodbye after a connection. I feel this difficulty especially around the eyes. This difficulty with emotional transitions I think is one of the factors that can lead to fours getting into a pattern of being either fully on or fully off in connecting, our eyes functioning as a major component of our on/off switch.

 

What I love about you 9's is your incredible selflessness, empathy and ability to really truly, and very naturally, create a neutral space to listen to other human beings. I typically feel very much heard and accepted when communicating with a 9, especially one on one. But I also tend to feel a little guilty afterwards because it's like I get so excited by the neutral space created that I end up dominating the conversation and you 9's are so damn nice you just patiently tolerate my repeated interruptions. Sorry about that.

 

Sea

[Ian]

The best way is to get a good personality Enneagram book

Sean

 

Any suggestions?

[sean]

Any suggestions?

Either of these are great to start with:

The Wisdom of the Enneagram

The Enneagram: Understanding Yourself and the Others In Your Life