Wanting to know and needing to know

[skydog]

k

Edited June 23, 2013 by skydog

[Marblehead]

"k" is the 11th character in the alphabet.

 

Need more?

[Songtsan]

Want and need are close and both forms of attachment...As want and need lie on a continuum, and are purely conceptual for thinking minds, whereas they are purely feeling based drives for nonthinking minds, they can be grouped with a slight demarcation for humans. True needs (vs. conceptual) are more reality based (biological requirements for life), whereas wants are more hungry-over-the-level-of-needs based. They are in the same line however, as wants are merely confused aspects stemming from biological programming gone into overdrive through habitual tendencies- which is essentially based on needs...Need is directly related to attachment, attachment is directly related to desire, fear, hope, and a slew of other things that lead to greed, envy, and eventually cause suffering. It’s not like you have to stop being who you are – just change your mind habits, so that you don’t suffer. You can go around doing exactly the same thing, but do not judge reality when it ‘hits you hard.’ The idea of need is a painful one when you don’t get ‘what you need.’ Drop the idea, and when hungry, eat, when tired, sleep. You still get what you need without the idea of need clouding your honesty. The body drives us to fulfill our 'needs' by using pleasure/pain controls. Pleasure results in seeking behaviors, pain results in avoiding behaviors. We need to seek food, thus it is pleasurable to eat (to a point), and we need to avoid charging rhinos, thus we are driven by fear needs.

 

When it comes to knowledge, we must delineate between absolute requirements (no knowledge required), and conventional requirements (again none required). Why none required. People in comas have no knowledge, yet they get what they need (at the hospital). Flip side is this. Without proper knowledge in certain situations, many of us would die...so do we need it? Yes/no...do we need to live? yes/no. You decide. That decides your needs. You decide your needs, not I. I do not need air, as I do not need to live - I have decided that its OK for me to die, though I will not try to speed up the process. So I am not attached to life. Thus I don't need life. Wants are similar. You decide your wants (you plus biology, plus society, etc. co-creation)..you agree to let them drive you. Me, I don't need to live, but I want to live. Others both need and want to live, whereas other others need to live, but dont want to live, as still other other others neither need nor want live. This can all be applied to anything- knowledge, spam chunks and green jello, video games, whatever you like. Why would someone need to have video games? Perhaps they are so depressed and it is the only thing that they have that makes them happy and if they didnt have it they would kill themselves. They want to live maybe even too...but they also want to die (I've been there - you can be right on the edge 50-50 between wanting to die/live). So thus they have decided they need it. Wants and needs are strictly decisions.

 

So since you decide both (for the most part), you can choose what you want and what you need, and even decide you want/need nothing, which would make the answer for both the same. If the answer is different for each - then there is your answer too. Also, there is polarization - most people want and dont want certain objects at the same time, need and dont need certain objects at the same time. Its never fully polarized to one extreme, although it can be close.

 

knowledge is transitory as well - always mutating, being replaced with new stuff. So while you might say you need knowledge as a whole, you could also say that you don't need any specific knowledge, because more will always come along. At the same time, in certain situations, you WILL die if you don't have the right knowledge. For most people, this is the most needed of knowledge, and it is different things for different people. Needs/wants are individual, although there are average trends.

 

Wanting knowledge is wanting brain food, but it is also wanting to stay alive in certain situations..wants and needs collide.

 

Why do you want to know? Or do you need to know this? (probably not as you wont die if you dont find out!)

Edited June 23, 2013 by Songtsan

[skydog]

.

Edited June 23, 2013 by skydog

[skydog]

.

Edited June 23, 2013 by skydog

[skydog]

[Marblehead]

That video reminded me of something I recently watched on PBS. It was a collaboration of a Hawaiian, the host, who sang and played slack key guitar, a jazz pianist, and a NA flutist. Beautiful music.

 

 

To the opening post, I disagree with your linking needs and wants. I prefer to view them as different concepts. But I will agree that wants are attachment based.

[Songtsan]

That video reminded me of something I recently watched on PBS. It was a collaboration of a Hawaiian, the host, who sang and played slack key guitar, a jazz pianist, and a NA flutist. Beautiful music.

 

 

To the opening post, I disagree with your linking needs and wants. I prefer to view them as different concepts. But I will agree that wants are attachment based.

 

Well...what I also slightly patterned it on is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs...which basically states that first we take care of our basic needs, and later after those are fulfilled, then we focus on wants. The drive behind the two is basically the same - nature's impetus...which is what the drive to get/take/find/eat/etc. is based on - desire...Now you might say that we don't become attached to needs..but how many people work as wage slaves, paycheck to paycheck, living with a deep fear that if they fuck up once, something bad happens, they lose the house, the marriage ends, etc.? This is fear, which is anti-desire...it is also highly related to negative attachment. We are all very much attached to having our needs met, even I who says I have no needs (part of me doesn't part does) . So like I said, its a continuum. Needs on the left, wants on the right...smoothly flowing from needs to wants. Its only a mind model though. Of course its also wrong!

Edited June 23, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

Of course its also wrong!

Hehehe. No, it's not wrong. In most cases after our basic needs are satisfied we extend our needs into wants and view these as needs as well. I have no arguement with this.

 

I look at it from the bottom line: Happiness.

 

Are we happy? Very poor people who have only their basic needs being satisfied often are much happier than are those who are constantly expanding their wants (that they perceive as needs). Bottom line: never satisfied - never happy.

[Songtsan]

Hehehe. No, it's not wrong. In most cases after our basic needs are satisfied we extend our needs into wants and view these as needs as well. I have no arguement with this.

 

I look at it from the bottom line: Happiness.

 

Are we happy? Very poor people who have only their basic needs being satisfied often are much happier than are those who are constantly expanding their wants (that they perceive as needs). Bottom line: never satisfied - never happy.

 

Yes! I have to say that my needs are satisfied (even though I have none)...but I am still afraid. Afraid of many stupid things (I am also bipolar and schizoaffective which means paranoia and anxiety). My dissatisfaction is generally high...sometimes very low though...depends on how much I realize that I cannot truly die and that everything will be taken care of and that suffering is OK

[Marblehead]

WoW! That post hit me unexpectedly. How to respond?

 

Two of my pet concepts in there: fear and suffering.

 

I realize that the way I view fear is not consistent with the scientific community but I truely do feel that we should eliminate all fear except for those that are instinctual.

 

I view pain and suffering as two distinctly different concepts. We will always experience pain of one sort or another, We stub our toe while walking barefooted. Thats' pain. Feeling sorry for ourself because we are in pain is suffering. Please pity me?!?!?

 

Yes, paranoia and anxiety would give birth to fear. In this case I can't say anything as I am not qualified.

 

 

BTW I swear I know that lady in your avatar. Perhaps in a movie I recently watched.

[Songtsan]

WoW! That post hit me unexpectedly. How to respond?

 

Two of my pet concepts in there: fear and suffering.

 

I realize that the way I view fear is not consistent with the scientific community but I truely do feel that we should eliminate all fear except for those that are instinctual.

 

I view pain and suffering as two distinctly different concepts. We will always experience pain of one sort or another, We stub our toe while walking barefooted. Thats' pain. Feeling sorry for ourself because we are in pain is suffering. Please pity me?!?!?

 

Yes, paranoia and anxiety would give birth to fear. In this case I can't say anything as I am not qualified.

 

 

BTW I swear I know that lady in your avatar. Perhaps in a movie I recently watched.

I agree - get rid of fear through left hand tantra is my path (nonattachment, entering into the horror house, Aghora style, embrace death, demons, evil and twisted stuff - root out all fear seeds, enter them, eat them come out as fear master)

 

I also view pain and suffering as 2 things, though intertwined an can be classed as one as well...for me generally they are one/two.

 

Paranoia is this - heightened fight or flight, heightened startle response, creation of fear based mind constructs from little environmental clues (almost in the way synchronicities are noted), mind too active...linked to needs based fear, and fear of suffering.

 

I think all fear roots from fear of suffering.

 

The avatar is one of my favorite faces...every time I see her I am happy. She is one of the cutest...

[Marblehead]

I think all fear roots from fear of suffering.

Interesting way of looking at it. I have never gone that route but I think I would end up in agreement.

The avatar is one of my favorite faces...every time I see her I am happy. She is one of the cutest...

Hehehe. Now I'm going to have to do my research. I think she was in a movie I recently watched. It was in the Chinese language with subtitles. If it is who I think it is she one one really good martial artist and swordwoman.

 

I'll let you know if I find her.

[skydog]

.

Edited June 24, 2013 by skydog

[Songtsan]

Interesting way of looking at it. I have never gone that route but I think I would end up in agreement.

Hehehe. Now I'm going to have to do my research. I think she was in a movie I recently watched. It was in the Chinese language with subtitles. If it is who I think it is she one one really good martial artist and swordwoman.

 

I'll let you know if I find her.

 

I dont know if it'll help but the file was called 'Innocent Asian girls mobile phone wallpapers 360x640 (02)' and i found it on google images

[Marblehead]

That file title sounds scarey! Hehehe.

 

(Just finished listening to the Beatles singing "She Loves You" in German.)

 

I'll check the file out later.

 

So what were we talking about? Attachments? Lessen but I think it is not necessary to eliminate them. Our attachments give us security when we need it. Sure, all things will pass but still.

[Songtsan]

You can keep attachments and not have them all at once....its a tricky maneuver...no one said you had to give anything away, just give it up!

[Marblehead]

 

 

Okay. This is who your avatar reminded me of. It is Zhang Zyi and she starred in the movie "The House of the Flying Daggers".

 

[Songtsan]

ZHANGZYI.JPG

 

Okay. This is who your avatar reminded me of. It is Zhang Zyi and she starred in the movie "The House of the Flying Daggers".

 

yum...she da hotty too.

[Songtsan]

 

 

[Marblehead]

Well, we won't be able to talk about our music likes but we can always go back and talk about women again.

[Songtsan]

Well, we won't be able to talk about our music likes but we can always go back and talk about women again.

 

I bet I like music you like....put something up and I will match it with something similar

[Marblehead]

Okay. Let's start with this one:

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzrNKN3rZI

 

[Songtsan]

this one?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDdqvftRlaQ

 

or maybe this one?

 

[Marblehead]

Excellent both.

 

I had the Simon and Garfunkel on 8-track that crashed. Can't remember if I still have the song somewhere.

 

I was listening to Fleetwood Mac before the girls joined them. Really excellent Blues work they did. I do have most of Fleetwood Mac's recordings.

 

This is one of the very first records I ever bought:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypFEXzMugSI

 

 

Mine was a 78 RPM record as the 45 RPMs were not yet popular.