Let's Talk About Afterlife

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

Could be whole , with various bits making up the whole. Like a purple gown, with white ruffles.

 

 

I saw a video by Sakhya Trizin (the head of the Sakhya Buddhists) who seems to say they are descended from celestial beings.

[Songtsan]

I saw a video by Sakhya Trizin (the head of the Sakhya Buddhists) who seems to say they are descended from celestial beings.

 

I think ghost cat is descended from celestial ghost cats

[Apech]

I think ghost cat is descended from celestial ghost cats

 

you are right ...

[Apech]

 

at about 0:36 he says descended from celestial beings ....

[silent thunder]

I have the sense that the sum total of my 'existence' can be viewed as a vibrational frequency.

Where I am and where I end up is based on how my frequency relates to those around it.

 

My energy will naturally settle where it is most natural.

[Cheshire Cat]

thanks! Reminds me of being at primary school, I think thats the last time I was given a 'shouldnt" like that.

Can I have my milk and rusk now.

I love cats

 

 

A student approached a famous Zen master in the city asking: “What happens after we die? This is something I’ve been thinking about for a long time and need to know.

What happens after we die?” he repeated.

 

The Zen master said: “I don’t know!”

 

“You don’t know?” the student shouted in shock. “But you are a venerable zen master!”

“That may be trued but I’m not a dead one,” the Zen master said.

[narveen]

“You don’t know?” the student shouted in shock. “But you are a venerable zen master!”

“That may be trued but I’m not a dead one,” the Zen master said.

 

if he doesn't know, why is he a venerable zen master? what is he venerated for?

 

this zen story is designed to lower the bar to give a passing grade for conmen posing as zen masters.

 

even i know what happens after the body dies.

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[Wu Ming Jen]

After life, what could we possibly talk about. without anything to "know" or conceptualize about, that would be a short conversation without words. The Zen master is closer we come from the unknown, I don't know, not knowing, no need for knowing.

 

The human mind wants 70 virgins or to be accepted to an exclusive club heaven because you are so awesome and your enemies get to go to hell or stopping the wheel of birth and death and reincarnation because you are so awesome. To me we come from the unknown and return to the unknown lets talk about the unknown. Some people are so scared of themselves (the unknown)they need to know everything.

[Cheshire Cat]

even i know what happens after the body dies.

 

[Lindelani Mnisi]

I'm betting on ending up in the astral planes...and I think I'll stay the same me but maybe remember all my past lives

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

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Edited June 25, 2014 by cat

[Wu Ming Jen]

Your hilarious, It goes something like this, . I hope this makes sense and no sense at the same time.

[Songtsan]

I think that when we die, our memories and personalities die with the body. They live on in this world as thought constructs, kept alive in the memories of others and in books/media/etc. Our personalities and the things we have accomplished affect the world for centuries and eons after our death. Certain people obviously affect the world more than others obviously. Our personalities are like learned habits - we pick them up from our parents, friends, at school, from the media...everything is formed in us from the world around us.

As far as the soul, or center of awareness - this does not die - it is nothing other than pure energy, or chi itself...bioelectrical energy cannot be destroyed...awareness is nothing other than this energy. Dead cells are not aware...cut off a piece of your skin, it did not lose awareness, it never had it - the body is not our true essence of life...it is the energy in our nervous system, corresponding to the meridian channels. This energy is absorbed into the energy that is existent all around us...it rejoins the cosmic energy pool....so the true us never dies, but neither does it retain a sense of identity. What people call karma, isnt karma of an individual soul, it is the karma of us all - it is tendencies. For example, say I was a thief, rapist, murderer, whatever - I die...the acts that that person perpetrated remain in the conscious collective and influence the others who grow up in that collective. I believe that that which is done to us, we often do to others... It is like this...say I am molested...you know how people who were molested often end up being molesters? It is exactly like this....all acts have ripple effects in the ponds - they spread like viruses, bad or good. Someone does something nice for you, you are more likely to pay it forward than if no one ever did anything nice to you. Someone does something mean to you, you are more likely to pay that forward instead, especially if it happens on a reoccurring basis.

Thus we never die, yet our illusionary self dies...but our personality also lives on - in the matrix of humanity...so it can theoretically become alive again in someone new. This is why I intend to write a book on living that contains exactly what I want myself to know, so that I may arise again...somewhere, sometime - if my book is out, someone will read it after I am dead, and I will live again through them.

Because awareness is by nature empty of self, it doesnt matter who reads my book, I WILL live again. This I am sure of.

[Songtsan]

Here is another interesting analogy: I see the body as like a computer (i.e. the hardware), the mind is like the CPU (central processing unit is like the center of consciousness - which scientists now think is right around the thalamus), the minds memories are like the data stored on a harddrive, personality is like the programs on the hardrive, and the true life (soul, etc.) is like the electricity flowing through the machine. So as electricity never can be destroyed, neither can our conscious energy. The rest of the equipment can be destroyed, but as long as some of those memories (data), and programs (personality attributes) were passed out along the internet (collective consciousness of humanity), they will continue to exist and when new life is born, the 'you' that you thought you were gets reborn too.

[Songtsan]

Here is this: One might be tempted to conclude based on my theory that it doesn't matter what one does in life, because their awareness of themselves will cease to exist when they die. This is actually not supported by the theory. What you do will actually influence the experience of your energy when that energy is reborn in future lives, which won't be as long as you think. When the chi energy of the body is released into the environment, it gets dispersed and becomes one part of a whole, dispersed in a diffusion kind of way...so if you think it doesnt matter what you do - whether you kill yourself or blow up a busload of nuns - you are wrong. You will create negative ripples in the collective conscious which will subtly influence the experience of all life that exists at that time, and indeed influence life that exists during later times as well...so in essence, as the true 'you' is simply energy - you WILL suffer down the line, when that same energy becomes part of another body, and another, and even multiple bodies at once. I truly believe it works like this.

[Songtsan]

Here is another interesting thing: they have studied people who have lost sections of their brain - either through accidents, or having tumors removed, or diseases, etc. When the affected part that was injured/removed contained memories (especially true for temporal lobe stuff), the person forgot all that was stored there, and never was able to access it again, although their relatives/friends/memoirs could tell them some things. So this goes to show that a lot of personality is stored in neural-net patterns. Let's imagine that through some freak-accident you lose all of your memory and abilities to make new ones - you are pretty much living only in the moment....you lose all language, you are nothing but pure awareness. This is probably the state they call 'becoming a vegetable' - its not that the person is stupid - they simply are unable to maintain or form new memories, so understand nothing. Just pure 5 senses. Also, think about people in comas - no electrical activity in the parts of the brain that have to do with awareness - just lower brain parts like brain stem, etc. that take care of breathing and autonomic functions...so no personality and no awareness of 'self' Keep in mind that the idea of 'self' is a compound aggregate - much of which is made of of memories and relationships between those memories. When the self is erased, then what exists is awareness. Energy that is released from the body after death has no sense inputs (that I know of - its still possible there is feeling of some sort).

However, the Taoist's who seek immortality believe that an immortal body can be created that is still composed of pure energy, but is also comprised of memory patterns, and so thus has a sense of self that continues on after death...they practice techniques that they say can build up this 'spiritual child' in the dantien area - which is located in the area of the stomach, in what is called the 'enteric nervous system' in western science. A huge collection of nervous tissue that is often called 'the second brain' I don't know what I think of this belief - haven't made opinions yet, because I haven't practiced the techniques. I practice MCO to some degree, but have not made efforts to form a spiritual embryo.

All my theories are always open for evolution...If I read something that makes better sense, I will adopt those tenets myself without attachment to my old theory. Buddhists call this, "Not being attached to one's own opinion," a vow that I myself hold fast to.

[Apech]

Here is another interesting analogy: I see the body as like a computer (i.e. the hardware), the mind is like the CPU (central processing unit is like the center of consciousness - which scientists now think is right around the thalamus), the minds memories are like the data stored on a harddrive, personality is like the programs on the hardrive, and the true life (soul, etc.) is like the electricity flowing through the machine. So as electricity never can be destroyed, neither can our conscious energy. The rest of the equipment can be destroyed, but as long as some of those memories (data), and programs (personality attributes) were passed out along the internet (collective consciousness of humanity), they will continue to exist and when new life is born, the 'you' that you thought you were gets reborn too.

 

My body is a Sinclair ZX81 with 16 kb of RAM. I was all the rage in 1984 but now people just point and laugh. I don't have a hard drive or hard anything just a dodgy casette tape player which squeaks a lot when I try to load a programme. Is there any hope for me?

[Marblehead]

Is there any hope for me?

Not much but you are recycleable.

[Marblehead]

BTW Just wondering, why so much talk about afterlife and so little talk about beforelife?

[Songtsan]

I was thinking of the possibilities of achieving immortality as a energy-structure and I believe I can see a possibility based upon what I have been reading. Energy can contain structure, and in fact - this is how things like telepathy could also be possible. Given the fact that radio waves carry information all the time around the planet - I do think that energy itself could contain some kind of vibrating memory field that could maintain and ego self that is aware and stays in that energy form for all time. I do believe that many of us might fall into an energetic form of unconsciousness that involves a loss of 'self' identity, otherwise we would have remembered something of ourselves from other lifes. We may contain traces of our self identities in the energy matrix, but many of us would have for the most part lost the selves we had developed in the last life, and would simply have become composed of tendencies that would stay aggregated in our next life, and cause us to repeat our karma to some extent. Now I also study reports of conscious reincarnation, or that is people who remember their past lives...its hard to know for sure whether any of that stuff is real or not (it's certainly possible), but I am open to the possibility of yes/no (as always). The thing is that these reports exist in greater numbers in places where eastern practices occur (which makes sense as people tend to practice yoga, meditation, etc. in these places more often). This could be do to several reasons of course - such as the power of suggestion. Yet many of these reports occur in young children who haven't had the time to understand death/reincarnation, so it increases the likelihood that they are true. Then there is also the possibility that their own parents suggested it to them. Or even actively worked to fake the story. Who knows? I am so convinced of the potential for it to exist that I have decided that it is worth pursuing as part of a meditative system. The Microcosmic Orbit is a place to start anyways - it revolves around becoming aware of the inner energies and learning to circle them within the body - down the main channels such as the vagus nerve...most of us keep our main energy focus in our heads, in the brain - and it basically heats our brains up and makes us think all the time and even become manic. Schizophrenia/mania has been proven to be due to excess head energy - in both western and eastern science - if you'd like to hear more on this, I would have to tell you about 'qigong illness' or 'qigong sickness,' which have been studied worldwide, and indeed is cataloged in the DSM-IV and will be expanded upon in the soon to be released DSM-V - which if you aren't aware, are the manuals that all psychiatrists use to diagnose any psychological disorder. So you see, this whole energy in the meridian stuff has already been scientifically verified by some of the top psychologists and neuroscientists in the world - there are likely millions of journal articles on it. So the energy is real, and if what the Taoists say is true, the energy can be cultivated and stored in what they call the lower dantiens - or energy wheels, where it becomes refined, given a personality that you yourself build, and then upon death, when the energy leaves the body - it maintains its structure and exists in the either the electromagnetic fields surrounding the earth or in the ionosphere above - haven't worked out that piece yet.

The meditation is basic, yet takes time - you simply circle the energy downwards through the vagus nerve, then further downwards (more to it than this obviously)...until it reaches the bottom of the spine, then it goes up the back of the spine into the head again...keep circling it and eventually you end at the navel area, where is is then wheeled until it becomes absorbed into the nervous tissue matrix there and stored in a type of fluid related to cerebrospinal fluid, which can maintain charges. (not entirely sure if this is true or not - but it sounds likely).

Edited June 30, 2013 by Songtsan

[Apech]

@songstan

 

you make some interesting points there. Thanks.

[silent thunder]

I don't recall who did this study, but its source was east German before the wall fell, or Russia during the cold war.

In it the scientist was trying to pinpoint where in the brain memory is stored. His findings were very strange.

 

He used rats that he taught to walk a maze. Then he would destroy parts of their brain and re-release them in the maze to see if they could still remember the route. Barbaric, but after all, it's human science. So barbarism aside, he came to the conclusion that memory was likely a magnetic field (holographic) that we access. He came to this conclusion after repeatedly destroying so much of his subjects brains that their bodies would no longer operate fully, yet they could still drag themselves through the maze with full memory of the path.