Loopy thoughts

[Songtsan]

The Tao that can be named is not the Tao - does this not mean that we are simply naming the Tao as: That which cannot be named? And still naming it in the end?

 

The undefinable cannot be defined - does this not mean that we are simply defining the undefinable as: That which can not be defined? And still defining it in the end?

 

That which is unknowable cannot be known - does this not mean that we are simply defining the unknowable as: That which cannot be known? And still saying we know it in the end?

 

Pointless?

 

better to say nothing, than say something?

 

When asked, 'What is the Tao?' is it stupid to say, 'It cannot be named?'

 

should one just blink ones eyes and breath, then take sword made of synthetic emerald and shoot lasers with it at the clouds?

 

too many rote answers?

 

cliches?

 

worn-in wagon tracks in the mind?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Songtsan

[Stosh]

Since the interpretation doesn't make sense, the words are not meaning as intended.

The translation I like is any dao that can dao is not the eternal dao.

I think it is this rational vetting process that imperative for understanding 2500year old writings.

Without it ,you end up with cartoon nonsense. It seems that some consider tao on par with anime anyway. Folks thinking rationally don't actually believe they can turn invisible and such in real life, that's just fantasy.

Some folks seem to need that fantasy escape..they think evereyone else is indulging in a fantasy escape as well. Others really believe th crazy bs as real, because they want to ,so much.

Ipersonally don't see how any wisdom or perspective can be gained, if, when it really comes down it, one really just thinks its bs.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Tao is a concept, not a thing. Tao represents the universe and how it works.

 

We cannot pick one aspect of Tao, define it and say that this is Tao. What we would have is only one aspect of Tao.

 

We often hear "the Way of Tao and the way of man". This is suggesting that man oftentimes conducts in activities that are against "the Way of Tao". These are counter-productive activities. (Nothing less than was my involvement in the "aliens" thread. Counter-productive.)

 

I have said before, "Do what needs be done, nothing less, nothing more." Sometimes I over-do a thing. Shame on me.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

tao is not a concept, so thinking about it is a game.

You are being delusional again.

[Marblehead]

If only you knew what you were talking about that would have been a true comment.

The truth is the truth regardless of who says it.

 

Now peace out and lets be friends. Maybe we can talk about Nietzsche's philosophy?

[XieJia]

Songtsan,

 

It is in our tendency to over-complicate.

 

So tell me; which comes first? The Dao or You?

 

Edited: Fix spacing...

Edited June 25, 2013 by XieJia

[Marblehead]

Thanks, that would be a terrific thing to do if I was interested in doing that.

I know. You have little interest in Nietzsche's philosophy. I was just trying to change the subject.

[Songtsan]

tao is not a concept, so thinking about it is a game.

 

thinking is in Tao and games are in Tao

[Songtsan]

If only you knew what you were talking about that would have been a true comment.

 

I usually dont know what I'm talking about too.

[Songtsan]

You are being delusional again.

 

I am almost always delusional, I think?

[Songtsan]

The truth is the truth regardless of who says it.

 

Now peace out and lets be friends. Maybe we can talk about Nietzsche's philosophy?

 

When I say the truth that you are saying, it means something different to me...is it still true?

[Songtsan]

Songtsan,

 

It is in our tendency to over-complicate.

 

So tell me; which comes first? The Dao or You?

 

Edited: Fix spacing...

 

I know dis! What I do is when I have a thought that stops my mind for a while...I think - cool! and then I share it, hoping it will stop someone else's mind too - wicked and devilish, I know.

[Songtsan]

I know. You have little interest in Nietzsche's philosophy. I was just trying to change the subject.

 

Trying to change things is trying to control nature. Do not try to control the Tao, or the Tao will fight you back without making any effort. Each action has an opposite but equal reaction in the opposite direction.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

Trying to change things is trying to control nature. Do not try to control the Tao, or the Tao will fight you back without making any effort. Each action has an opposite but equal reaction in the opposite direction.

Good try but I don't buy it. Push hard enough and even Tao can be moved.

[Songtsan]

Good try but I don't buy it. Push hard enough and even Tao can be moved.

 

True, but it is like pushing an object that is floating on the water...the faster and harder you push, the more it moves away from you. When you finally do move it, you push it farther away from yourself, at the same time pushing your own self away from it. If you try to pull it towards you, you waste energy reaching out (and pulling back) for what would have eventually come your way in the end anyways. Then you are tired. The Tao is always moving so it is easy to move, moving with it is the easiest way to move it. To try to control it is like not moving with it, but trying to control its direction to suit your own needs. I may get stupid, like when I use a word that doesn't mean anything, such as 'lupid,' but this I know.

[Stosh]

Uhhh how is it exactly that one can or does move Tao? Precisely. A fer instance perhaps?

[ChiDragon]

The Tao that can be named is not the Tao - does this not mean that we are simply naming the Tao as: That which cannot be named? And still naming it in the end?

 

Correction:

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

 

Since we don't know whose son it is, it was reluctantly to name it, as Tao, for the convenience of description.

[Songtsan]

Uhhh how is it exactly that one can or does move Tao? Precisely. A fer instance perhaps?

 

like moving air - push forward and it swirls around your hand in circle-eddies, never really going anywhere....the Tao is always moving, if it wasnt, then it could not be moved, but it always stays the same, so it cannot be moved like you think we move things. Unless I don't really understand the Tao (true!).

[Songtsan]

Correction:

The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

 

Since we don't know whose son it is, it was reluctantly to name it, as Tao, for the convenience of description.

 

perhaps because the eternal Tao is constantly changing form, anything we name it is true only in the instance of time that we name it, and then once its changed, it is untrue...what we once named it, that is. Keep on naming!

[ChiDragon]

perhaps because the eternal Tao is constantly changing form, anything we name it is true only in the instance of time that we name it, and then once its changed, it is untrue...what we once named it, that is. Keep on naming!

 

Chapter 1

1. 道可道，非恒道。

2. 名可名，非恒名。

 

3. 無，名天地之始。

4. 有，名萬物之母。

 

Translation.

1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao.

2. A name that can be named is not an eternal name.

 

3. Invisible(Wu), it(Tao) was named as the origin of heaven and earth.

4. Visible(You), it(Tao) was named as the mother of all things.

Edited June 25, 2013 by ChiDragon

[C T]

Hellow Songtsan... How can i apply to join your 'Wrathful Deity/s Syndicate' (WD S)? Sounds like my kinda scene.

[Songtsan]

Hellow Songtsan... How can i apply to join your 'Wrathful Deity/s Syndicate' (WD S)? Sounds like my kinda scene.

 

You have to pass a hazing ritual

[Stosh]

like moving air - push forward and it swirls around your hand in circle-eddies, never really going anywhere....the Tao is always moving, if it wasnt, then it could not be moved, but it always stays the same, so it cannot be moved like you think we move things. Unless I don't really understand the Tao (true!).

My question really just approaches what it is that you think of it, is it real and functioning ? Is it some otherworldly force? Is it a game of the imagination? You were thoroughly examining a translation, to see whether it could take rational form, I think that has merit. CD is offering the fruits of long labor CT posted to you.maybe I am not the only one who sees merit....but your approach ...which way it leans I don't know yet.

But you remind me of sree and rene

Edited June 25, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

True, but it is like pushing an object that is floating on the water...the faster and harder you push, the more it moves away from you. When you finally do move it, you push it farther away from yourself, at the same time pushing your own self away from it. If you try to pull it towards you, you waste energy reaching out (and pulling back) for what would have eventually come your way in the end anyways. Then you are tired. The Tao is always moving so it is easy to move, moving with it is the easiest way to move it. To try to control it is like not moving with it, but trying to control its direction to suit your own needs. I may get stupid, like when I use a word that doesn't mean anything, such as 'lupid,' but this I know.

The trick is to become a part of it, to become one with it. No, I'm not getting spiritual here, this is reality.

[narveen]

But you remind me of sree and rene

 

songstan thinks like a girl and plays with dragon. so, she can't be more than 25. and she is f*cking with us, like the monkey king having fun with in the jade garden kicking us warriors in the air like straw dogs..

 

martial art is deception. we must catch the monkey king.