Your Views Please

[Ron Goninan]

I learn from ever person I come in contact with. I don't have all the answers and would never be as so presumptuous to ascribe that I do so I'd appreciate it if you would cast your eye over the following Youtube footage of myself and my guys and let me know what you think warts and all!!! I want to hear your good views (Naturally ) but also your bad views ... Why? Because this is one way in which I can improve myself and others.

Promo

Weapons:

Tai Chi Dao:

SanZhan Ba Xian Zhang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5MzukAcL0Q

[Songtsan]

well, I'm no martial artist nowadays...but one thing I noticed is that, especially in the promo video, the form has a lot of energy reversals. Instead of following the action-direction with a flow that uses the energy to make a continuous circuit, it uses back-n-forth, which is inefficient because you actually have to fight yourself to re-activate the energy wheel. See that move where you do a sort of sweeping kick, land and do a return kick (around 00:08)? This creates a place where there is a pause and you then have to fight your own energy to come back in your kick. It looks nice, but seems to waste your own energy on yourself, whereas if you designed it so that your own energy took you somewhere else effortlessly you could maintain the energy-momentum and spiral it into something else far more deadly by adding to it, instead of subtracting from it....like bagua circle-stuff. from an aesthetics point of view I like it...it looks nice and snaky. I understand that you use the rebound or bounce energy to activate your come back...but I have seen forms that have almost no rebound/bounce moves and they seem faster, and also less predictable...you can almost tell that that second kick is coming...its one thing if you are chambering your kick, but landing and then forcing a new kick from the same leg leaves that split second in between where a person who is aware can use that space to plan/counter/etc. Is this your own personal form, or traditional? I know almost nothing about martial arts nowadays...my principles come more from analyzing physics and theories of action/reaction...circular forms avoid action/reaction. Keep in mind that every action has an opposite and equal reaction, so when your foot lands on the floor, the floor is landing on your foot. When you do a spring down and bounce back up move...you are not only allowing the energy to bounce you back up, but since the floor is also pushing you, you are also pushing the floor - so energy you built through momentum is lost through the floor. Try to keep your energy in you, instead of losing to the environment - if you lose it to someone's body in a fight, that is OK, as that is the point, but whenever you lose energy to the floor, etc. you have misplaced yourself. Every time you have a stop, you have to have a start again. It takes effort to start, because objects at rest want to remain at rest. You want to keep energy building, in a circle/spiral, never leaving the circle/spiral, because to leave is either to let the energy dissipate, or to fight the circle-direction. Also, think of a snake moving, it seemingly has a back and forth - but it is actually a wave like motion, so its actually more spiral like, relying naturally on physics laws to minimize energy laws...look at nature for the most efficient use of energy. The snake is relying on on a principle that uses its own body weight and the effects of action/reaction on the relaxed parts (muscles not active in that phase) to slingshot its leading part into the next wave section...it uses almost no start-force...its continuous. So try not to stop and start. Try to do wave/circles. Moving from dantien is partially based on gravity laws, and in fact center of gravity is exactly dantien. When you overextend and have to fight to get back, you went outside the locus of your center of gravity...maintain balance by using forces besides major muscle-movements (like action/reaction laws). Once you have the energy momentum - all changes should come from extremely subtle changes in posture, costing almost nothing...direct the flow with the smallest of energy inputs to create direction changes in the vector. The energy is maintained without excess pushing/pulling. So your energy reserves are 10x as strong and can be unleashed in a storm of spiraling/building chi expression. If you do have to pull into a stop, always pull the energy back into you too. If you are pulling back, use the energy that is created as your body weight pushes into the floor (which means that the floor pushes into your body)...you can absorb the force of the floor pushing back into you through that bounce back energy - this is its proper place. Using body weight is taking energy from gravity...fighting body weight with your own muscles is taking energy from you. Avoid unnecessary energy expenditures whenever possible. Don't fight yourself, fight your opponent only (and gravity as is required).

 

Forms look great by the way...beautiful.

 

P.S. Here is a fun experiment - active your start energy with your initial launch, then see how much movement you can create from this initial burst, with no extra added energy from muscle movement (except to maintain balance of course - don't fall to gravity! ) See how long you can make it last.

 

See the video below for explanation too...notice how with the initial energy added, it spins for quite a while:

 

they took my vid..those greedy boys! I put nother one in:

Edited June 28, 2013 by Songtsan

[thelerner]

perhaps a bit too negative.

Edited June 27, 2013 by thelerner

[Songtsan]

also, in regards to my last post - everytime you stress your center by sending action energy in one direction beyond the locus of your dan tien/center of gravity, you are either forced to play catch-up by reinserting energy in the opposite direction to counterbalance, or else you can follow your own energy direction and allow the action-energy direction/vector to turn you in that same direction, thus circling/spiraling towards that vector. A savvy opponent could take advantage of you if you have to play catch up, by following your own action-energy with one in the same direction and further unbalance you - either by toppling you, or even by attacking the limb itself - adding his/her own energy to the vector and crushing that limb...Additive forces are powerful....This is why two martial artists can hurt eachother both by attacking force with force head on. If a person uses your own force to manipulate you, they now control you and you are in their domain until you can spiral out of it....they can keep you trapped once they have you by keeping you off center off gravity, always playing try-to-recenter

[ChiDragon]

 

I learn from ever person I come in contact with. I don't have all the answers and would never be as so presumptuous to ascribe that I do so I'd appreciate it if you would cast your eye over the following Youtube footage of myself and my guys and let me know what you think warts and all!!! I want to hear your good views (Naturally ) but also your bad views ... Why? Because this is one way in which I can improve myself and others.

Promo

 

The first come on, I see that you are a very powerful man. You have full control of your movements by keeping the upper body in a static condition and the lower part very dynamic.

 

As a martial artist, it is fine to apply all the energy to the arms and legs. However, when the energy applied to the hands tend to spread the fingers which make them very vulnerable to be damaged by the opponent. During practice is ok to open the fingers, but it is not advisable during combat.

 

As a Tai Ji practitioner, the yin-yang concept shall be always applied in the body movements such as relaxing the upper body including the hands and fingers while the lower body is doing some kicking.

 

Traditionally, the attire is a bit too feminine for a male martial artist. I would wear something shorter for the upper body.

 

Thank you for being objective and open minded for comments.

 

Edited June 25, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Songtsan]

Now I want to study martial arts again.

[Ron Goninan]

Songtsan,

 

Thanks for your views. The kicking display is from our Fang Qiniang Shou 方七娘手 Form (the third sequence). It is done here with more Fajin then usual for demonstrative purposes.

 

However to answer your comments I quote from the He Quan Quan Jue (Crane Fist, Fist Poems):

 

Sui shou,zu dong ru che lun, er shen neng jing ru tie zhu,shouwan ying ru tie zhi. liang zu luodi bubu sheng gen:

 

"With the hands and feet moving like a carts wheels and the body still as an Iron rod, the palms as stiff as an Iron pad, the two feet progressively land to the ground as a live root.

 

The hands and feet move like a wheel of a horse carriage, the body can be stable unmoving (Jin) like a pillar of iron, hands and wrist hard like bars of iron. The whole feet have to touch the ground when moving, with every step the feet take root"

 

And this:

 

Yan ru shen,shou si jian,chushou ru yin chu lu,dui ta si feng bailiu,shang xia zhuanquyi shen li, lai you sheng qu wu ying, qianbian wan hua lian zhi jie ye, si shan wu ding,si hai wu di, wangfan zhi shi keyi ke ren hu zhi, chushou zhi shi you ru gaoshanliushui:

 

"Eyes like nerve, hands like spikes, hands stretched out like a stretched path, against the target like gust of wind, upwards and downwards turning. The body’s force coming forth with sound, returning with no shadow, changinga thousand times, straightening ten thousand times to get a leaf, similar to a peakless mountain or a bottomless sea, back and forth to target the bodys support, stretching out the hands like a waterfall from the mountain top.

 

Eyes like spirit (Shen), hands like arrows, attacking hands twist and turn like a winding road, to the opponent you look like a willow tree blowing, swaying in the wind, moving up and down, twisting or turning use the entire body’s strength. Coming with sound and leave without shadow (Referring to fast footwork and attack, not stealth), improvise and change like branching leaves on a tree branch, like a mountain without a top or an ocean without a bottom, moving and retreating (attacking the enemy and protecting the limbs), attacking like falling water from a tall mountain"

 

If you feel my Crane is hard, external as your writing seems to indicate then have you seen other forms such as YongChun Crane, The Crane of Master Yu Dian Qu??? I am trying to get a handle on what you know about White Crane.

 

Songtsan, You said you no longer do Martial Arts? Why and what arts did you do?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Ron Goninan

[Ron Goninan]

Thelerner:

 

Posted Today, 01:54 AM

 

I'm wary, his certificates seem strange to me. Certified Master of Dim Mak!?, wow he deserves his own comic book. I'm not impressed. I could well be wrong. As always try a few free classes, talking to students is often better then talking to the instructor to find out what classes and the philosophy of the art is really like.

 

I've found the best teachers to be much less flashy.

Posted Today, 01:54 AM

I'm wary, his certificates seem strange to me. Certified Master of Dim Mak!?, wow he deserves his own comic book. I'm not impressed. I could well be wrong. As always try a few free classes, talking to students is often better then talking to the instructor to find out what classes and the philosophy of the art is really like.

 

I've found the best teachers to be much less flashy.

 

I mean you no offence (how could I? I don't know you) but what certificates??? There are no certificates posted. Just the Youtube clips! How can you make such an assessement without seeing them?

 

My Dian Xue comes from firstly the late Master Erle Montaigue and very well known exponent and teacher of Dim-Mak and secondly from the Five Thunder Chinese masterial Arts Association headed by Grandmaster Chen Zhenglei, 19th generation descendant of the Chen’s family and a 11th generation direct-line inheritor of Chen’s Taichi & Grandmaster Liming Yue.

 

Comic book??? Hardly. I am a person of very little knowledge and skill so I don't understand the reasoning for your negativity against someone you have had no contact with before?

 

"Flashy" ... See above.

 

Sorry you feel so negatively.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Ron Goninan

[Ron Goninan]

ChiDragon:

 

Posted Today, 03:51 AM

The first come on, I see that you are a very powerful man. You have full control of your movements by keeping the upper body in a static condition and the lower part very dynamic.

 

As a martial artist, it is fine to apply all the energy to the arms and legs. However, when the energy applied to the hands tend to spread the fingers which make them very vulnerable to be damaged by the opponent. During practice is ok to open the fingers, but it is not advisable during combat.

 

As a Tai Ji practitioner, the yin-yang concept shall be always applied in the body movements such as relaxing the upper body including the hands and fingers while the lower body is doing some kicking.

 

Traditionally, the attire is a bit too feminine for a male martial artist. I would wear something shorter for the upper body.

 

Thank you for being objective and open minded for comments.

 

Hi and thank you for your comments. Listening to others without overtly judging is one way in which we learn and grow.

 

Hmmm I don't know about being a "very powerful man!" I'm an old, grey-haired, slightly (or a bit more) overweight guy who loves Gongfu! No "world-beater" and certianly nothing special!

 

I agree with your point about the fingers! Thank you. Naturally it is applied different in combat!

 

By attire I guess your talking about the uniform I'm wearing in the clips. I like very large, loose fitting clothing if thats what you mean and White Crane is a "Feminine Style" Could in ask you to be a little more specific?

 

Thank you very much for your comments.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Ron Goninan

[Songtsan]

Songtsan, You said you no longer do Martial Arts? Why and what arts did you do?

 

wow that is some beautiful stuff you wrote there...I copied it and pasted it into a .doc for later review.....

 

I have studied Five animal styles gongfu, taichi Yang & Chen style, various sword forms (Jiang, saber, and others), Arnis/Kali, cardio kickboxing Capoiera, Pencak Silat, Isshinryu, qigong, preying mantis, and MMA...haven't studied in years though...got into spontaneous movement and its all I do now (plus standing post and MCO)....I never get into fights, and I dont care what I look like to others anymore, so I just play by myself anywhere as I feel...I do wish I had a sword though, and I do miss the fellowship....

 

I didn't feel your Crane was hard...I was just microfocusing on certain small parts...if its traditional - its art, and I have no critic at all. I love that kick combo and do it myself and enjoy it, but I always found it to be inefficient as far as energy dispersal is concerned...it leaves such a space open that one could be attacked in that half-second easily as you reverse the energy to come back...

 

really, if I lived near you I would be happy to come and train with you guys...

[ChiDragon]

Hi and thank you for your comments. Listening to others without overtly judging is one way in which we learn and grow.

 

Hmmm I don't know about being a "very powerful man!" I'm an old, grey-haired, slightly (or a bit more) overweight guy who loves Gongfu! No "world-beater" and certianly nothing special!

 

I agree with your point about the fingers! Thank you. Naturally it is applied different in combat!

 

By attire I guess your talking about the uniform I'm wearing in the clips. I like very large, loose fitting clothing if thats what you mean and White Crane is a "Feminine Style" Could in ask you to be a little more specific?

 

Thank you very much for your comments.

 

You are the most humble man who is dedicated to Wushu. You have the virtue of martial arts which is the highest quality of a Kung Fu practitioner could ever possess. BTW The attire was only a minor observation. It is immaterial and not worth to mention again.

[Ron Goninan]

wow that is some beautiful stuff you wrote there...I copied it and pasted it into a .doc for later review.....

 

I have studied Five animal styles gongfu, taichi Yang & Chen style, various sword forms (Jiang, saber, and others), Arnis/Kali, cardio kickboxing Capoiera, Pencak Silat, Isshinryu, qigong, preying mantis, and MMA...haven't studied in years though...got into spontaneous movement and its all I do now (plus standing post and MCO)....I never get into fights, and I dont care what I look like to others anymore, so I just play by myself anywhere as I feel...I do wish I had a sword though, and I do miss the fellowship....

 

I didn't feel your Crane was hard...I was just microfocusing on certain small parts...if its traditional - its art, and I have no critic at all. I love that kick combo and do it myself and enjoy it, but I always found it to be inefficient as far as energy dispersal is concerned...it leaves such a space open that one could be attacked in that half-second easily as you reverse the energy to come back...

 

really, if I lived near you I would be happy to come and train with you guys...

 

Hi,

 

I'm glad you like the stuff I posted. I will post more on the "He Quan, Quan Jue" soon! My school is the first to publish this in English.

 

That's quite a few arts you have studied! And what a great attitude! No caring what you look like to thers, spontaneous movement ... sounds alot like my way of teaching in the we choose function over form and body-feel as the most important aspecys of that which we do!

 

Our Crane is much softer but that was a "for Youtube" demo! The idea behind the Lotus Kick (outside crescent) Water Element (Yin) is an attack to Spleen 11 followed by a Roundkick Metal Element (Yang) to Gallbladder 31 or into the Liver 13 point lastly followed by the Palm Strike.

 

Thanks for your all too kind comments!

 

Why don't you get back in to the Martial Arts? I'm sure you would love it!

[Ron Goninan]

You are the most humble man who is dedicated to Wushu. You have the virtue of martial arts which is the highest quality of a Kung Fu practitioner could ever possess. BTW The attire was only a minor observation. It is immaterial and not worth to mention again.

 

Thank you very much. I don't know about being humble. Just a seeker like everyone else looking for my own truths. I am certainly nothing special and of little skill and knowledge.

 

Again thank you for you for your views. If I have any virtue of the Martial Arts it is to be found in a never-ending desire to learn.

 

The uniform well as said earlier I like plenty of movement room and the "flowing" sensation of the larger style of attire!

 

Thank you so very much! I am honored to know you.

[ChiDragon]

You welcome and likewise........

[ChiDragon]

Tai Chi Dao:

It is interesting to see a combination of other forms within the Yang style. I see a little Chen style and a martial arts leg movement in it. The form was done in random sequence; or nowadays, perhaps it is called the simplified form or lazy Taiji.

 

The "Jade Lady" form was originally called the "Four Conner". In the simplified form, it has been reduced to only two corners like just left and right. I am wondering are you interested to see its original form of the Yang style...??? Perhaps the "Cloud Hands" too....!!!

Edited June 27, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Songtsan]

Hi,

 

I'm glad you like the stuff I posted. I will post more on the "He Quan, Quan Jue" soon! My school is the first to publish this in English.

 

That's quite a few arts you have studied! And what a great attitude! No caring what you look like to thers, spontaneous movement ... sounds alot like my way of teaching in the we choose function over form and body-feel as the most important aspecys of that which we do!

 

Our Crane is much softer but that was a "for Youtube" demo! The idea behind the Lotus Kick (outside crescent) Water Element (Yin) is an attack to Spleen 11 followed by a Roundkick Metal Element (Yang) to Gallbladder 31 or into the Liver 13 point lastly followed by the Palm Strike.

 

Thanks for your all too kind comments!

 

Why don't you get back in to the Martial Arts? I'm sure you would love it!

 

I need to focus on becoming one with myself and my body first, before I pursue any ego gratifications (such as things that look cool like dance, gongfu, yoga, etc.) I should illustrate. There is a perfect exercise system for every person - one unique to each person and only them, based on their bodies needs. I have a B.S. in exercise prescription and another B.S. in health education, have taught yoga, dance, and done massage, personal training, etc. so I understand a lot about the body and exercise. I am in bad shape right now due to mental illness and life circumstances (karmic too). Since I am in such poor shape, I must focus only on what needs to be done, until I ripen. Then I can pursue things for fun. Right now, I only pursue things for wisdom-fun, and suffering-amelioration. If I had extra impetus, I would also pursue things for flashy-fun, but it is hard enough for me to motivate to pursue healthy-ways as it is, although there are techniques to pursue ego-gratifications and use that desire to attain simultaneous health-improvements - I have done this and I know it works...but if I try to 'become' something too soon - like a wicked samurai ninja, I will set up expectations in my mind, and then when my cyclical depression hits, I will hate myself that I cant continue my training due to lack of motivation and low energy and carelessness. I am developing a system that relies only on pure enjoyment of movement (through spontaneous movement), and that places no expectations on myself. I aim to destroy stress and tension that are produced from failing ones own unnecessary ideals for oneself.

[thelerner]

I mean you no offence (how could I? I don't know you) but what certificates??? There are no certificates posted. Just the Youtube clips! How can you make such an assessement without seeing them?

"Flashy" ... See above.

 

Sorry you feel so negatively.

I apologize. I saw the 'master of dim mak' and let my imagination run with that. Actually your credentials are impressive. While I'm out of the game now, I've spent over 20 years in the martial arts, but your style is so different then mine, I should know better then to claim any expertise by watching it.

 

Again, I apologize for my overly negative post. Too often on the net people write first, often glomming onto an initial impression and think later. <also I edited down my initial writing>

[Apech]

I don't practice martial arts any more but I thought your presentation was good and if I lived anywhere near and wanted to do some I would be happy to learn from you as your energy seems well balanced. I thought the vids were a bit over elaborate and I found the music a bit off putting (but that may be my taste). personally i would have less writing and more action ... or perhaps more talking to explain what you are doing ... but its a matter of style and taste I guess.

[Ron Goninan]

It is interesting to see a combination of other forms within the Yang style. I see a little Chen style and a martial arts leg movement in it. The form was done in random sequence; or nowadays, perhaps it is called the simplified form or lazy Taiji.

 

The "Jade Lady" form was originally called the "Four Conner". In the simplified form, it has been reduced to only two corners like just left and right. I am wondering are you interested to see its original form of the Yang style...??? Perhaps the "Cloud Hands" too....!!!

 

Thank you. Yes my Taiji is influenced by the Chen way as well as by my own White Crane (Kind of in the same way the Huang Xing Xian's Tai Chi was influenced by his Minghe Crane and his Crane influenced by his Taiji).

 

Not sure what you mean or are getting at with the "Lazy Taiji" comment. Perhaps you could explain in a lttle more detail please as I don't want to misunderstand your views?

 

Interesting what you have to say about "Jade Lady" I have never heard that before and find it very interesting as I am always interested in the original essence. Please tell me more! Also "Cloud Hands?"

 

Love to see original anything!

[Ron Goninan]

I apologize. I saw the 'master of dim mak' and let my imagination run with that. Actually your credentials are impressive. While I'm out of the game now, I've spent over 20 years in the martial arts, but your style is so different then mine, I should know better then to claim any expertise by watching it.

 

Again, I apologize for my overly negative post. Too often on the net people write first, often glomming onto an initial impression and think later. <also I edited down my initial writing>

 

Its all cool!

 

I didn't really think you where that negative of meaning any offence.

 

Credentials? Impressive? Hmmm not really interested in that so much. Sure, nice to have but I'm more an "on floor" sort of person.

 

Thanks for sharing your views.

 

What style did you do?

[Songtsan]

Thank you. Yes my Taiji is influenced by the Chen way as well as by my own White Crane (Kind of in the same way the Huang Xing Xian's Tai Chi was influenced by his Minghe Crane and his Crane influenced by his Taiji).

 

Not sure what you mean or are getting at with the "Lazy Taiji" comment. Perhaps you could explain in a lttle more detail please as I don't want to misunderstand your views?

 

Interesting what you have to say about "Jade Lady" I have never heard that before and find it very interesting as I am always interested in the original essence. Please tell me more! Also "Cloud Hands?"

 

Love to see original anything!

 

I love chen style...fast/slow, slow/fast..so perfect, like a striking snake

[Ron Goninan]

don't practice martial arts any more but I thought your presentation was good and if I lived anywhere near and wanted to do some I would be happy to learn from you as your energy seems well balanced. I thought the vids were a bit over elaborate and I found the music a bit off putting (but that may be my taste). personally i would have less writing and more action ... or perhaps more talking to explain what you are doing ... but its a matter of style and taste I guess.

 

Why don't you do Martial Arts anymore??? I ask as it seems to be a bit of a theme here.

 

Politics? Teachers?

 

Thank you for the very nice and positive comment about my energy being well balance. That was very nice. Thank you.

 

Yes the Vids are a bit elaborate (I'd say "over the top!") but it is my first attempt so I am still in the early learning stages. Less writing and more action ... yes definately thats something for the future.

 

Thanks for your views!

[Apech]

Why don't you do Martial Arts anymore??? I ask as it seems to be a bit of a theme here.

 

Politics? Teachers?

 

Thank you for the very nice and positive comment about my energy being well balance. That was very nice. Thank you.

 

Yes the Vids are a bit elaborate (I'd say "over the top!") but it is my first attempt so I am still in the early learning stages. Less writing and more action ... yes definately thats something for the future.

 

Thanks for your views!

 

I have more interest now in internal arts and meditation than MA.

 

If that's your first attempt at vids then its a pretty good start.

 

[ChiDragon]

Not sure what you mean or are getting at with the "Lazy Taiji" comment. Perhaps you could explain in a lttle more detail please as I don't want to misunderstand your views?

 

Interesting what you have to say about "Jade Lady" I have never heard that before and find it very interesting as I am always interested in the original essence. Please tell me more! Also "Cloud Hands?"

 

Love to see original anything!

 

In regarding to the "Lazy Taiji", the tradition Taiji classes was taught in the 108 from. Since they were simplified to the shorter forms, people were joking that the shorter forms are the lazy forms of Tai Ji Chuan.

 

Thank you for being interested in the original famous "Jade Lady" form which was known as the "Four Corners".

For your interest, here are the two forms of Jade Lady and Cloud Hands.

 

The Four Corners.....

 

The Cloud Hands and Repulsive Monkey......

Edited June 28, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Ron Goninan]

Thank you. I don't see it as "Lazy Taiji" ... smart Taiji yes. Why? Well I think that it can help spread Taiji to the masses in a form that while still retaining the traditional concepts and principles is an easy learnable form. From here people may just go on to study deeper.

 

Thanks for the clips. Is that you? The Jade lady Four Corners was interesting to see as an Individual practice on its own.

 

Repluse Monkey is similar as to how I have practiced it in other longer forms as is Cloud Hands.

 

Thank you for sharing!