Subconscious mind maps to objective reality...

[Jeff]

Many traditions say that one should focus inwardly and then at deeper levels go on to say things like "the inner and the outer are the same". This is because all that is and can be perceived is an aspect of "mind". The Lankavatara Sutra describes it well...

 

Then Mahamati the Bodhisattva-Mahasattva spoke to the Blessed One, saying: You speak of the erroneous views of the philosophers, will you please tell us of them, that we may be on our guard against them?

The Blessed One replied, saying: Mahamati, the error in these erroneous teachings that are generally held by the philosophers lies in this: they do not recognize that the objective world rises from the mind itself; they do not understand that the whole mind-system also arises from the mind itself; but depending upon these manifestations of the mind as being real they go on discriminating them, like the simple-minded ones that they are, cherishing the dualism of this and that, of being and non-being, ignorant to the fact that there is but one common Essence.

On the contrary, my teaching is based upon recognition that the objective world, like a vision, is a manifestation of the mind itself; it teaches the cessation of ignorance, desire, deed and casualty; it teaches the cessation of suffering that arises from the discriminations of the triple world.

 

The term "mind" is probably better described as universal/shared mind in the above context. For most people, the "conscious" mind focuses only on the perceptions of the local body-mind. Broader aspects of objective reality are components of what is commonly called the "subconscious" parts of the mind. Meditation and practices help one to let go of the issues and fears in our subconscious that act as obstructions to us noticing the deeper components of universal mind.

 

Each person's conscious mind is a subset of the broader universal shared mind. In simple terms, all humans share lower depths of the subconscious mind. Things like "astral travel" are possible because the person has begun to break down the obstructions between the perceived local body-mind and the broader universal mind.

 

Clear out the attachments, fears and obstructions in your mind and you will move beyond philosophical theory; you will realize that the inner and the outer is the same.

 

Best wishes on your path.

[Marblehead]

For most people, the "conscious" mind focuses only on the perceptions of the local body-mind. Broader aspects of objective reality are components of what is commonly called the "subconscious" parts of the mind. Meditation and practices help one to let go of the issues and fears in our subconscious that act as obstructions ...

Well, I can agree with this part of your post.

[Jeff]

Well, I can agree with this part of your post.

 

Hi MH,

 

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your perspective. So does that mean that you do not believe that things like astral travel or possible? Or, that it just does not relate to broader aspect of "mind"?

 

Regards.

[Marblehead]

So does that mean that you do not believe that things like astral travel or possible? Or, that it just does not relate to broader aspect of "mind"? Regards.

That is a difficult question for me to answer. I have had experiences, some would call them astral travelling. I don't. These experiences happened either when I was in deep (empty-minded) meditation or I was totally "inside" music that I was listening to. For me, it was just my subconscious brain doing its own thing.

 

Yes, I hold to the concepts of "conscious mind" and "sub(un)conscious mind" but there may be more to the brain than just those two levels. I have, at base, agreed with Jung's concept of "collective unconscious" but in my mind the line can run only through the female and her offspring. I can't see where just the male's sperm could be a part of that concept.

 

So yes, I believe that our brain has more capacity than most of us ever use. Can I prove it? No. Nor have I seen enough proof to cause me to hold it as a truth.

[Jeff]

That is a difficult question for me to answer. I have had experiences, some would call them astral travelling. I don't. These experiences happened either when I was in deep (empty-minded) meditation or I was totally "inside" music that I was listening to. For me, it was just my subconscious brain doing its own thing.

 

Yes, I hold to the concepts of "conscious mind" and "sub(un)conscious mind" but there may be more to the brain than just those two levels. I have, at base, agreed with Jung's concept of "collective unconscious" but in my mind the line can run only through the female and her offspring. I can't see where just the male's sperm could be a part of that concept.

 

So yes, I believe that our brain has more capacity than most of us ever use. Can I prove it? No. Nor have I seen enough proof to cause me to hold it as a truth.

 

Hi MH,

 

I would definitely agree that the mind has more than two levels. It could probably be described as infinite levels. By "subconscious", I meant everything that one is not conscious of.

 

Thanks for the discussion.

 

Regards, Jeff

[Marblehead]

Hi MH,

 

I would definitely agree that the mind has more than two levels. It could probably be described as infinite levels. By "subconscious", I meant everything that one is not conscious of.

 

Thanks for the discussion.

 

Regards, Jeff

Yep. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Is it that the world is actually created by the mind, or is it that there is an objective reality but our perception is subjective?

 

I disagree with the former, because it begs the questions of what stimuli prompted our first thoughts, and how we managed to lose the ability to consciously mould reality as in a lucid dream, in the first place.

 

JMHO. Issues like these are really things to realise at higher levels of cultivation, not to try to intellectually wrangle out, so I may well be wrong.

[Marblehead]

Is it that the world is actually created by the mind, or is it that there is an objective reality but our perception is subjective?

 

I disagree with the former, ...

So do I. And I am in total agreement with the latter.

[Jeff]

Is it that the world is actually created by the mind, or is it that there is an objective reality but our perception is subjective?

I disagree with the former, because it begs the questions of what stimuli prompted our first thoughts, and how we managed to lose the ability to consciously mould reality as in a lucid dream, in the first place.

JMHO. Issues like these are really things to realise at higher levels of cultivation, not to try to intellectually wrangle out, so I may well be wrong.

If ones experience is consistent with (or believes) Buddist sutra, then it is the former. All of "reality" is perception (or manifestation) of mind. Siddhis are not magical powers, but really the change or adjustment in deep aspects of universal mind. A buddhamind is conscious of it all, where for most it is just obscured aspects of the subconscious.

 

But yes, we are describing the difference between the beginning of self realization and Buddhahood.

 

(edit - replace than with then)

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jeff

[Jeff]

From a reference on DW, a little more on the point from Gompopa's "Jewel Ornament of Liberation":

 

"The Hearer (Arhat) and Solitary Realizer (Pratyekabuddha) families are inferior by virtue of the fact that they fully purify their families by dispelling only the obscuration of afflicting emotions. The Mahayana is superior because it fully purifies its family by dispelling two obscurations--afflicting emotions and the subtle obscurations to enlightenment. Therefore, the Mahayana family is superior and unsurpassed."

 

Gompopa goes on to say that the Buddha "encourages" Arhats and Pratyekabuddhas to attain Buddhahood.

 

"...light radiates through the Buddha's wisdom and touches the mental bodies of the Hearers and Solitary Realizers. As soon as the light reaches them, they arise from their unafflicted meditations."

 

He then goes on to tell them that their experience of nirvana is not the final nirvana, and that they should work towards the realization of the Buddha.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jeff