Questions about Phowa

[norbu]

Phowa is the tibetan name for a process to assist a being in leaving his/her body

at the time of death. It is also a method which can be used to change bodies if circumstances call for a sudden change of venue. I have studies and practiced both methods, so if any ave questions I will certainly do my best to answer them. But to reply to idiot_stimpy's thread from January, (1) No, if the Spiritual Being leaves the body it doesn't mean the body will die...unless the Being fails to return. Sometimes it happens as a stimulus to the person involved. I first left my body consciously in 1960. I sat there above my body looking at it and mentally "scratching my head" re "What on earth is this about." I found little help in books so went to see a practitioner of Zen I knew in Honolulu. From there I followed a trail of questions. Each question leading me further along toward the Tibetan Lama with whom I have trained for awhile.

It is nothing to fear. It can be learned by anyone I suppose, but you need to locate a Tibetan Lama who will teach you. I personally have found the best Lamas at this instruction are the Bon Lamas.

They can assess whether or not you have the background to assimilate and practice this art.

If you have questions I'll try to answer them.

Norbu

[silent thunder]

I've had a few trips outside the meat suit.

Never voluntary though, a very impressive feat that.

[ralis]

Phowa is the tibetan name for a process to assist a being in leaving his/her body

at the time of death. It is also a method which can be used to change bodies if circumstances call for a sudden change of venue. I have studies and practiced both methods, so if any ave questions I will certainly do my best to answer them. But to reply to idiot_stimpy's thread from January, (1) No, if the Spiritual Being leaves the body it doesn't mean the body will die...unless the Being fails to return. Sometimes it happens as a stimulus to the person involved. I first left my body consciously in 1960. I sat there above my body looking at it and mentally "scratching my head" re "What on earth is this about." I found little help in books so went to see a practitioner of Zen I knew in Honolulu. From there I followed a trail of questions. Each question leading me further along toward the Tibetan Lama with whom I have trained for awhile.

It is nothing to fear. It can be learned by anyone I suppose, but you need to locate a Tibetan Lama who will teach you. I personally have found the best Lamas at this instruction are the Bon Lamas.

They can assess whether or not you have the background to assimilate and practice this art.

If you have questions I'll try to answer them.

Norbu

 

I attended a teaching on Phowa by Lama Rinchen many years ago. Although I felt it, there wasn't enough detail. What Bon Lamas are available? Location? Can you provide further instruction?

[norbu]

Of the Bonpo Lamas I know here in the US, I would say the best instructor is the Geshe at the Gyaltsen Institute in Los Cerritos, CA. I may be wrong on the address, but I know it is around Berkeley area. There is also a Lama, Geshe Tenzin (Not Tenzin Wangyal) but I don't kow if he is currently teaching in the US or not.

I would not attempt to instruct another in the art. It requires a top quality instructor. This is not much help Iknow, but if you don't locate Geshe Chapur at Gyaltsen, then post again and I'll email him and ask where he is teaching and if he plans a Phowa teaching soon.

Norbu

[ralis]

Of the Bonpo Lamas I know here in the US, I would say the best instructor is the Geshe at the Gyaltsen Institute in Los Cerritos, CA. I may be wrong on the address, but I know it is around Berkeley area. There is also a Lama, Geshe Tenzin (Not Tenzin Wangyal) but I don't kow if he is currently teaching in the US or not.

I would not attempt to instruct another in the art. It requires a top quality instructor. This is not much help Iknow, but if you don't locate Geshe Chapur at Gyaltsen, then post again and I'll email him and ask where he is teaching and if he plans a Phowa teaching soon.

Norbu

 

I looked up Geshe Chapur and don't see any Phowa teachings scheduled.

[Jainarayan]

Is this a case of being outside the body as if (in this plane, this world) one is physically looking at a different person, or is it a feeling of being on the outside looking in, as in a reflection in a mirror or glass, almost that you are an illusion to yourself? Did that make sense?

[Jeff]

Phowa is the tibetan name for a process to assist a being in leaving his/her body

at the time of death. It is also a method which can be used to change bodies if circumstances call for a sudden change of venue. I have studies and practiced both methods, so if any ave questions I will certainly do my best to answer them. But to reply to idiot_stimpy's thread from January, (1) No, if the Spiritual Being leaves the body it doesn't mean the body will die...unless the Being fails to return. Sometimes it happens as a stimulus to the person involved. I first left my body consciously in 1960. I sat there above my body looking at it and mentally "scratching my head" re "What on earth is this about." I found little help in books so went to see a practitioner of Zen I knew in Honolulu. From there I followed a trail of questions. Each question leading me further along toward the Tibetan Lama with whom I have trained for awhile.

It is nothing to fear. It can be learned by anyone I suppose, but you need to locate a Tibetan Lama who will teach you. I personally have found the best Lamas at this instruction are the Bon Lamas.

They can assess whether or not you have the background to assimilate and practice this art.

If you have questions I'll try to answer them.

Norbu

Hi Norbu,

 

Thank you for your generous offer. I would be interested in your sharing more details relative to the "sudden change of venue". How does one integrate into a different body? Also, would that be a kind of possession with respect to the consciousness of the other person?

 

Best wishes.

[ralis]

Hi Norbu,

 

Thank you for your generous offer. I would be interested in your sharing more details relative to the "sudden change of venue". How does one integrate into a different body? Also, would that be a kind of possession with respect to the consciousness of the other person?

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Glen Mullin's book discusses this but the detail is missing. There is a brief mention of being able to control the life force which can reanimate a corpse. It would be nice to have some further instruction on this.

Edited June 26, 2013 by ralis

[ralis]

Mods,

 

Will you move this over to the general discussion. Important topic!

[Simple_Jack]

An excerpt from an article I posted in another thread:

 

http://huayanzang.blogspot.in/2012/12/innumerable-buddhas-and-mystical.html

 

"...The practice of phowa is likewise remarkable. Later period masters developed methods of ejecting the consciousness out of the body either at death or before. It is one of the six yogas of Naropa. It is still actively practised today in Tibetan schools of Buddhism, one modern master being Ayang Rinpoche. Experienced practitioners are able to euthanize themselves through this meditation if they must, although this method is usually used at the time of death as an aid in the transference of consciousness. In an interview for Australia’s Broadcasting Corporation Lama Choedak Rinpoche explained how monks used phowa when the Chinese invaded Tibet:

 

“There were lots of stories about people when some of the monks were arrested and loaded in the truck, ready to take to the prison. They had already done their self phowa which we may call Buddhist version of euthanasia, to take themselves without allowing their captors to having to commit the terrible karma of killing or torturing them. They instead saw no purpose or meaning for them to remain in this hired body and therefore they wanted to leave in grace rather than in disgrace. So that kind of a sign and ability exists in the good practitioners.”

5

Powers describes the basic method:

 

“...pronouncing the mantra hik sends the consciousness out, and the mantra ka causes it to return. The process is repeated three times, and one sign of success is the appearance of a small hole (or sometimes a pustule) at the fontanel, out of which a small amount of blood or lymph flows.”

6

[Simple_Jack]

I looked up Geshe Chapur and don't see any Phowa teachings scheduled.

 

You have a chance of learning this from Ayang Rinpoche who teaches phowa from the Nyingma and Drikung Kagyu lineages:

 

http://ayangrinpoche.org/2013-north-america-teaching-schedule-announced/

 

He's been going around teaching this for some years now.

 

Mods,

 

Will you move this over to the general discussion. Important topic!

 

This should be moved back to the Buddhist sub-forum:

 

1. So it won't get lost in the General Forum.

 

2. Because phowa is directly tied to bardo experiences of the Pure Lands, which is a Buddhist Mahayana theme (e.g. sukhavati or the pure land of Guru Rinpoche).

[ralis]

 

You have a chance of learning this from Ayang Rinpoche who teaches phowa from the Nyingma and Drikung Kagyu lineages:

 

http://ayangrinpoche.org/2013-north-america-teaching-schedule-announced/

 

He's been going around teaching this for some years now.

 

 

 

This should be moved back to the Buddhist sub-forum:

 

1. So it won't get lost in the General Forum.

 

2. Because phowa is directly tied to bardo experiences of the Pure Lands, which is a Buddhist Mahayana theme (e.g. sukhavati or the pure land of Guru Rinpoche).

Phowa is not exclusive to Buddhists. To claim ownership for a practice that can be found in other traditions is disingenuous.

[silent thunder]

Phowa is not exclusive to Buddhists. To claim ownership for a practice that can be found in other traditions is disingenuous.

 

Isn't Phowa the name of a specific buddhist practice for mastering out of body travel to aid in averting fear at death?

If so, seems very natural to put it with other buddhist practices and discussions.

[Simple_Jack]

Phowa is not exclusive to Buddhists. To claim ownership for a practice that can be found in other traditions is disingenuous.

 

Bon teachings are said to have originated (on this planet) from a buddha called Tonpa Shenrab, so technically Bon is a Mahayana doctrine descended from buddhas (not to mention that their organizational structure and teachings are modeled after Vajrayana; effectively making them a "buddhist" sect of sorts).

 

Please, enlighten me as to other non-Buddhist traditions which have teachings on rebirth in a pure buddhafield. I'm not referring to long-lived god realms nor the pure abodes of non-returners.

[Simple_Jack]

Bon teachings are said to have originated (on this planet) from a buddha called Tonpa Shenrab, so technically Bon is a Mahayana doctrine descended from buddhas (not to mention that their organizational structure and teachings are modeled after Vajrayana; effectively making them a "buddhist" sect of sorts).

 

Bon also has it's own lineages of terma teachings from tertons such as Vairocana and Padmasambhava (who are also associated with Buddhism).

[ralis]

Bon teachings are said to have originated (on this planet) from a buddha called Tonpa Shenrab, so technically Bon is a Mahayana doctrine descended from buddhas (not to mention that their organizational structure and teachings are modeled after Vajrayana; effectively making them a "buddhist" sect of sorts).

 

Please, enlighten me as to other non-Buddhist traditions which have teachings on rebirth in a pure buddhafield. I'm not referring to long-lived god realms nor the pure abodes of non-returners.

 

 

Your post is based on unproven myth which attempts to make this practice exclusive to one group of select individuals. What I am talking about is a transference of consciousness or phowa if you like to call it that, can be seen in many traditions. Phowa is just another name and adherents of believe they will be born in some superior buddhafield.

Edited June 26, 2013 by ralis

[Simple_Jack]

Your post is based on unproven myth which attempts to make this practice exclusive to one group of select individuals. What I am talking about is a transference of consciousness or phowa if you like to call it that, can be seen in many traditions. Phowa is just another name and adherents of believe they will be born in some superior buddhafield.

 

Are you serious? You said you have received these teachings before.

 

Why do you think specific pujas are done for the deceased so that they can be reborn in a pure land?

 

You're associating this with astral projection and the ability to possess a corpse which are regular siddhis (the latter you can read about in this book http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1559392991).

 

The main goal(s) of phowa is to either become enlightened in the intermediate period after death or to be reborn in a pure land (which exist separately from the 3 realms). Like how I mentioned above: you can help guide sentient beings at the moment of death to a pure land, through specific means.

 

Also, I found another website to an Anyen Rinpoche who teaches phowa courses: http://www.phowafoundation.org/

 

This will you give a bit more information on phowa: http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Phowa

Edited June 27, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[norbu]

"Thank you for your generous offer. I would be interested in your sharing more details relative to the "sudden change of venue". How does one integrate into a different body? Also, would that be a kind of possession with respect to the consciousness of the other person?" Jeff.

 

When I was being trained my teacher offered her body. The "test" was to occupy, fully describe the scenery, people around etc. Enough so she could tell I was there, and sort of grade me based on accuracy of the data I could report.

It isn't, to my experience, any different than how do you integrate within your own body. My own feelings are that should I have to suddenly move out of this, and into another body, I would simply take the body over and the previous owner would be ejected. I took over 2-3 bodies briefly just to see how it felt, and I don't think the previous owner even knew I was there.

 

Re Gshe Chapur, I am not sure when he will offer phowa. You just have to watch the website. A close friend of mine and some others recently visited Menri Monastery in India for Phowa which was taught by H.H. Menri Ponlop (my teacher in Bon) and when they returned to the states she couldn't wait to show me the photos of them with the stalk of Kush grass sticking out of the hole in the top of the heads of all of them.. This is a sign of success in the training.

Norbu