A Path To Enlightenment

[dawg]

Tibetan Ice,

 

For the first four days, after about 5 minutes in each session, a kind of wave occured and in the background, behind the focus on the sound of Buddho, I could see visions and what appeared to be dreams occuring. Actually, I recognize them as dreams because if I grasp at any one of them, I find myself in a lucid dream.. And it is typical to feel that "wave" take place which usually anounces that REM is about to occur.

 

The visions are just another attempt by your subconscious mind to distract you…

 

Note…your subconscious mind is in the spirit world… ordinary dreams take place in your subconscious mind.. lucid dreams take place in the spirit world, so can be used as portals into the spirit world… you go into the lucid dream, then don’t follow the flow of the lucid dream, and walk out of the lucid dream into the spirit world…

 

Note... it is the delusion in your subconscious mind, that creates blockages in your chakras...

 

For the last couple of days the dreams/visions no longer occur. Instead, I'm seeing abstract patterns of lights in the background, beautiful colors and patterns. Nothing like I've ever seen before.

 

I suspect that by maintaining focus on the breath and the mantra it is stirring up winds. I think that performing a mantra (even silently) is kicking in the throat chakra, which then creates the dreams and visions (these types of visions).

 

I do admit, it is easier to maintain consistent focus on the objects of awareness (the breath and the Buddho) when they are combined because each new breath brings a new batch of thoughts, but if you are focusing on the sound of the mantra, the new batch of thoughts comes in and then goes out because you are not grasping at them. So, in a way, you are precipitating the natural dissolution and release of thoughts and visions too (when not focused on them). This is sort of like Dzogchen's remaining in the natural state.

 

Is the point of this Buddho practice to purify the subconscious?

 

You use the bhuddo practice, observing the breath as a way to strengthen your concentration…The point of this buddho practice is to keep your concentration strong enough to systematically destroy delusion… (1)… to silence the voice and gain control of the conscious mind… (2)… to then use the conscious mind to purify the subconscious mind starting with “anger”… (3)… then to reach equanimity… (4)… doing body investigation to understand that there is no “us” except the subconscious mind… (5)… destroying the delusion that controls our subconscious mind… and attaining awakening and nirvana…

 

What is the next stage past the abstract light patterns that I am seeing? Will they gradually slow down and fade away when I achieve shamatha? Will I need to drop the mantra at some point?

 

Everybody is different… some people see and hear nothing… some people see visions… some hear beautiful music… or see beautiful patterns of colors…

 

You do the mantra and observe the breath, to keep your concentration strong enough to destroy the delusion… but after you destroy delusion it doesn’t matter…

 

………………………………………….

 

The only way to permanently purify the subconscious mind (6^th chakra) is to destroy the delusion that controls the subconscious mind… and only the conscious mind (7^th chakra) can do that by systematically turning the delusion into neutral awareness…

 

1)… First by “learning to control the “voice of delusion” in the conscious mind, and developing the strength of concentration so that we can turn off the voice” so that our mind is quiet and empty… allowing us to rest our mind… this is simple concentration (Samadhi)…

 

One pointedness is total concentration… the first time I reached one pointedness, I was staying in a Buddhist monastery, living in a monks hut and meditating… I sat down with a clock in front of me, the time was 8:30 AM and I closed my eyes and started meditating… a few minutes later I heard loud noises outside my open window and opened my eyes to see what was going on… it was some workmen throwing some boards in a pickup truck to haul them away…I glanced at the clock, and the clock said 11:15 AM… I thought the clock must be broken, so a got up and got my watch… when I looked at my watch, it said 11:15AM… nothing made any sense… I couldn’t have been meditating for two hours and forty five minutes… I had only been meditating for five or ten minutes at most… then I started looking around, and was amazed at how beautiful everything was… and how peaceful and rested my body felt, and how much energy I had… I went outside and started walking around, gawking at everything because it was all so beautiful… the next morning after breakfast, I went to do some walking meditation on a walking path that was about seventy feet long, and shaded by trees … it had rained all night. so the leaves of the trees were wet and dripping drops of water… I stepped onto the beginning of the path, and paused to empty my mind, and the tree I was standing under dropped all of its water on me… then as I slowly walked down the path, each tree dropped its water on me as I passed under it… by the time I go to the end of the path, I was soaking wet, but laughing with my heart full of joy… the monk that was my teacher said it was the “devas” (heavenly spirits) congratulating me on reaching one pointedness…for the next two weeks, it was like I was walking around in a Walt Disney movie where everything has little sparkles on it… then came the ceremony to mark the midpoint of the “rains retreat”… it started at dusk in the sala (big open air hall) and lasted for about 2 hours… I was not going to go, but everybody said that I should go, so I went… I got there when it was supposed to start and there were not many people, so I sat in the middle of the hall… but people kept coming and coming, so the hall filled up… but people kept coming, so it got crowded… and more people came so the sala was jammed with people… you could not even see the floor…it was so jammed that to leave, I would have had to walk on peoples bodies… I could hear every little sound in the sala… I could smell every little smelI in the sala…I was sitting in a meditation position… and could feel the knees of the people behind me… there were three fat women sitting in front of me who kept wiggling around and trying to scoot back, pushing against my legs (I could smell that one of them was having her period)… to the right of me two women kept talking in wispers… to my left was a mother who kept trying to silence her petulant child… and the abbot’s very large english bulldog was walking around “on” the sea of bodies, drooling on people and trying to sit in their lap… while some woman in the front was offering 5 gold bars to the abbot who was sitting up front…this is when my concentration crashed and burned… I spent the whole night in my kuti sitting with my back against one wall, facing the abbot who was sitting against the opposite wall with the woman offering the five gold bars over and over again… with the two whispering women on my right… and the mother trying to silence her petulant child on the left… while the abbots english bulldog ran about the kuti… I finally got rid of them and regained my concentration just before dawn… and it has been solid ever since… but I learned a lesson… I had not allowed my own delusion to talk me into going to the rains retreat ceremony… but I had allowed other peoples delusion to talk me into going…never again…!

 

2)… Then by investigating, understanding, and “letting go of anger and greed”… so we never get angry again… (righteous indignation is also anger)…

 

If you get angry, it is your fault you are angry… because you decided to get angry… no one can make you angry but yourself… it is the conditioning in your subconscious mind that causes you to get angry… because you have been taught (conditioned) as a small child that if people say this or that, or do this or that, you should get angry… your subconscious is already preparing your body to get angry, before you even decide to get angry… there is a split second just before you get angry, when you can decide NOT to get angry… in other words, you can turn off your anger by simply letting go of it when it starts to arise… if someone is angry and being rude to you trying to make you angry, and you get angry, they have stolen your energy… if instead, you calmly look at them and say something like; .”whoa man, how long have you had this problem”.. (making it their problem, not yours)… then look at your watch and say “i gotta go now or I will be late, see you later” as you walk off… as they shout, “I don’t have a problem”…!!! You have simply refused to get angry… and if you have to deal with this person, you do so later when they are not angry…anger is a negative emotion… it is a defilement that blocks your spiritual development… and when you get rid of anger, greed falls away too because it is the other side of the coin that is anger…

 

3)… Then by “reaching equanimity”, and accepting other people and their beliefs just the way they are… their business is their business, and our business is our business… and we never have another argument…

 

we are all the same… it does not matter who we are… it does not matter if we are a man or woman, rich or poor, smart or dumb, beautiful or ugly, young or old, etc., etc., etc…. we are all the same…we are no better, and no worse than anyone else… so we should respect other people as much as we respect ourselves…thinking you are better or worse than others, blocks your spiritual development… that means having respect for other people’s beliefs and way of living, because it is none of your business… if you mind your own business, you will not have the time and energy to mind other people’s business… you must accept other people and their beliefs, just the way they are… and if someone tries to bait you and argue with you that they are right and you are wrong… just tell them that “neither opinion is right or wrong… they are just different… and if you were minding your own business, you would not have the time and energy to try to mind my business”…if they still try to argue with you, just say “you are wasting my time”, and just walk away… it takes two people to have an argument, don’t be one of them…

 

4)… Then doing “body investigation”… and realize that we are a “spirit (subconscious mind) with a body”, not a “body with a spirit”, and realizing that our “body” and “personality” are not “us”, they are temporary just for this life… that our spirit (subconscious mind) is the main event… because it is the eternal “us”…

 

Most people think of themselves as being a body and a personality… and they think of their awareness as being a part of their body… they consider that their body and personality is their self…so they think that when their body dies, their awareness dies with it…they are scared of death, and want to live forever, but don’t realize that their subconscious mind does live forever… that the subconscious mind is the self… the body investigation is a process of analyzing the physical body looking for a self… you can only realize and conclude that the body is a non self that will die and rot away… that your mind is the self… and since your conscious mind can’t remember your past life, but your subconscious mind can… that your subconscious mind is your “eternal self”… and that it is full of delusion, and needs to be purified…

 

5)… Then by “holding our conscious mind in “neutral awareness” (the middle path) until our subconscious mind accepts it as reality… causing our delusion to shatter amid loud rumbling noises, and flashing lights… and we feel as if we have just awakened from a long hypnotic dream… and now the delusion seems so obvious, that we wonder how it could have fooled us…

 

Delusion is entirely a result of the concept of “good” and “evil” (bad)… labeling everything as good or bad is delusion, because the only thing that is good or bad is the intention of our actions…everything else just is, and is neutral in itself… the world must be seen entirely as neutral cause and effect… our intention (good or bad) is the “cause” and “karma” (good or bad) is the effect… if our intentions are neutral, we make no karma… this is why an awakened person makes no karma… and this is why we need to hold this mind set in our conscious mind until our subconscious mind accepts it as reality… in order to reach awakening…

 

6)… We have purified our subconscious mind (sixth chakra) permanently and destroyed the delusion in it, so there is no longer a voice of delusion… so now our conscious mind (seventh chakra) is blissfully empty, serenely peaceful, and all we can hear is silence…the sound of one hand clapping…

Once you destroy delusion, your subconscious mind is permanently purified…

 

 

Dawg

Edited November 28, 2014 by dawg

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Dawg,

Thank you for the story about concentration.

 

One pointedness is total concentration the first time I reached one pointedness, I was staying in a Buddhist monastery, living in a monks hut and meditating I sat down with a clock in front of me, the time was 8:30 AM and I closed my eyes and started meditating a few minutes later I heard loud noises outside my open window and opened my eyes to see what was going on it was some workmen throwing some boards in a pickup truck to haul them awayI glanced at the clock, and the clock said 11:15 AM I thought the clock must be broken, so a got up and got my watch when I looked at my watch, it said 11:15AM nothing made any sense I couldnt have been meditating for two hours and forty five minutes I had only been meditating for five or ten minutes at most then I started looking around, and was amazed at how beautiful everything was and how peaceful and rested my body felt, and how much energy I had I went outside and started walking around, gawking at everything because it was all so beautiful the next morning after breakfast, I went to do some walking meditation on a walking path that was about seventy feet long, and shaded by trees it had rained all night. so the leaves of the trees were wet and dripping drops of water I stepped onto the beginning of the path, and paused to empty my mind, and the tree I was standing under dropped all of its water on me then as I slowly walked down the path, each tree dropped its water on me as I passed under it by the time I go to the end of the path, I was soaking wet, but laughing with my heart full of joy the monk that was my teacher said it was the devas (heavenly spirits) congratulating me on reaching one pointednessfor the next two weeks, it was like I was walking around in a Walt Disney movie where everything has little sparkles on it then came the ceremony to mark the midpoint of the rains retreat it started at dusk in the sala (big open air hall) and lasted for about 2 hours I was not going to go, but everybody said that I should go, so I went I got there when it was supposed to start and there were not many people, so I sat in the middle of the hall but people kept coming and coming, so the hall filled up but people kept coming, so it got crowded and more people came so the sala was jammed with people you could not even see the floorit was so jammed that to leave, I would have had to walk on peoples bodies I could hear every little sound in the sala I could smell every little smelI in the salaI was sitting in a meditation position and could feel the knees of the people behind me there were three fat women sitting in front of me who kept wiggling around and trying to scoot back, pushing against my legs (I could smell that one of them was having her period) to the right of me two women kept talking in wispers to my left was a mother who kept trying to silence her petulant child and the abbots very large english bulldog was walking around on the sea of bodies, drooling on people and trying to sit in their lap while some woman in the front was offering 5 gold bars to the abbot who was sitting up frontthis is when my concentration crashed and burned I spent the whole night in my kuti sitting with my back against one wall, facing the abbot who was sitting against the opposite wall with the woman offering the five gold bars over and over again with the two whispering women on my right and the mother trying to silence her petulant child on the left while the abbots english bulldog ran about the kuti I finally got rid of them and regained my concentration just before dawn and it has been solid ever since but I learned a lesson I had not allowed my own delusion to talk me into going to the rains retreat ceremony but I had allowed other peoples delusion to talk me into goingnever again!

 

I've had that experience of post meditation glitter and silence quite a few times. I didn't think it was possible or a goal to stay in that state permanently. Ajahn Brahm talks about exactly that experience too in his book called Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond.

Actually, those experiences were a precursor for the experiences of an immense pool of silence, bliss, love and the feeling of "being everything" which came out of my heart through the eyes. Perhaps I will go back to single pointed concentration instead of focusing on the kati channel and the visions, however spectacular they may be.

 

I really appreciate your taking the time to share your personal experiences with everyone. It means allot to me as I'm sure it does to most others here.

 

[Anoesjka]

5)… Then by “holding our conscious mind in “neutral awareness” (the middle path) until our subconscious mind accepts it as reality… causing our delusion to shatter amid loud rumbling noises, and flashing lights… and we feel as if we have just awakened from a long hypnotic dream… and now the delusion seems so obvious, that we wonder how it could have fooled us…

 

Delusion is entirely a result of the concept of “good” and “evil” (bad)… labeling everything as good or bad is delusion, because the only thing that is good or bad is the intention of our actions…everything else just is, and is neutral in itself… the world must be seen entirely as neutral cause and effect… our intention (good or bad) is the “cause” and “karma” (good or bad) is the effect… if our intentions are neutral, we make no karma… this is why an awakened person makes no karma… and this is why we need to hold this mind set in our conscious mind until our subconscious mind accepts it as reality… in order to reach awakening…

 

That's really a very clear way of pointing the way. Thanks Dawg, this is most helpful indeed.

 

I have a question I'd like to ask you. What is the use of a kundalini awakening? Is it also just a byproduct along the way? Is it something to ignore?

[dawg]

I have a question I'd like to ask you. What is the use of a kundalini awakening? Is it also just a byproduct along the way? Is it something to ignore?

 

Anoesjka,

 

The sixth chakra is our subconscious mind (and our third eye)… the sixth chakra controls the five chakras below it… but our subconscious mind has been programmed with “mundane reality” which is “delusion”. So it is controlled by “delusion”, so it does not make good decisions… and it creates blockages in our lower five chakras… when we raise the kundalini, it sweeps away the blockages in the lower five chakras, and the sixth chakra, opening the third eye… but it does not permanently destroy the delusion in the subconscious mind, it just temporarily suppresses the delusion… so the delusion creeps back in, and recreates all the blockages to the lower five chakras, that the kundalini swept away… so that raising the kundalini gives you a temporary taste of awakening, but is not permanent…

 

Dawg

[Maddie]

Anoesjka,

 

The sixth chakra is our subconscious mind (and our third eye)… the sixth chakra controls the five chakras below it… but our subconscious mind has been programmed with “mundane reality” which is “delusion”. So it is controlled by “delusion”, so it does not make good decisions… and it creates blockages in our lower five chakras… when we raise the kundalini, it sweeps away the blockages in the lower five chakras, and the sixth chakra, opening the third eye… but it does not permanently destroy the delusion in the subconscious mind, it just temporarily suppresses the delusion… so the delusion creeps back in, and recreates all the blockages to the lower five chakras, that the kundalini swept away… so that raising the kundalini gives you a temporary taste of awakening, but is not permanent…

 

Dawg

 

 

Hey Dawg

 

Thanks for all the great answers so far. I have a question about mundane reality itself. I don't really like mundane reality, the whole idea of having to have some job to sustain myself seems so pointless to me. I see all these people act like their job is this really big deal but from my point of view I just see them doing it lifetime after lifetime and it seems rather pointless. I realize that the most obvious solution would be to become a monk so one does not have to deal with that sort of thing and one could focus on issues that are more important (such as becoming enlightened) but for a couple reasons I can not do that now (such as student debt, and too much attachment to the idea of a relationship). So my question is that since for the moment I must live within mundane reality what if anything can I do to improve my situation within it? I really don't like my job at the moment and it seems like I've never really had much luck in being successful career wise. I realize part of this is my lack of interest in the mundane world so I just can really get into it, but I'm sure my lack of interest and enthusiasm relates to my lack of success in the physical world as well. I'm really baffled about what to do. Any suggestions related to this topic?

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Dawg.

I have two questions, or topics.

The first one is about the voice in the mind. Here is the analogy. There is a speaker and a microphone in the head (mind). It is what creates the sound of "talking" or non vocalized mind chatter. I'm trying to figure out, within the context of your model, if the conscious mind controls the microphone, or if the subconscious mind does. Or, perhaps they both share it?

Would you say that the subconscious mind has the microphone most of the time and through it it speaks to the conscious mind? Would it also be fair to say that the conscious mind also grabs the microphone to talk to the subconscious mind? It appears that way to me. Yesterday, I grabbed the mike, and looked directly at the other part of the mind that was talking and asked it who it was. The voice went totally silent. First time in a long time, it had nothing to say. It almost seemed like it had been hurt or that someone had told it to shut up. In this analogy, then, wouldn't mantra repetition be the case where you are trying to take the mike back from the subconscious?

 

The second topic I would like your opinion on is this... There is a center of awareness in the middle of the head in the mind that flits about, moving from one thought, sensation, sound or stimulus to another as they occur. It is like a limp finger that points to the various stimuli, somewhat like a periscope from the heart (I've traced it back to the heart). Typically this periscope is hard to control and jumps around to the next most exciting stimuli willy nilly. Would you say that this periscope is controlled by the subconscious mind, or at least that the subconscious mind uses it to look around? Is not the point of breath meditation to learn to gain control of his periscope and keep it focused or controlled by the conscious mind?

It certainly seems like that is the whole point that you are talking about. I, meaning the conscious mind, can direct the periscope to remain aware of a whole cycle of the breath, of knowing the breath, but it never stays put. With meditative practice I've managed to get to the point where I can keep the periscope focused for tens of minutes at a time and see nimittas and enter a few jhanas. Would you say that this whole practice is the training of the subconscious mind, by the conscious mind? It is like the conscious mind is not in control, and the task is to take control back. I can envision that if the conscious mind had perfect control over the subconscious, then in a sense the conscious mind would be controlling the giant that you speak of. Is the whole point to use the conscious mind to gain single pointedness in order to penetrate and shatter the delusion that has settled into the subconscious mind? I think I am on the right track, trying to map your explanations to my understanding and experiences. Would you agree?

Edited November 29, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[allinone]

The self who is aware is the "voice of delusion".- Samsara

The deletion of intention is when you remove the self or the "I" who is aware. Hindus "i am" or objectless concentration.- Nirvana

 

i assume Dawg entered Nirvana. He didn't made it as a object(objectless object) and realize it. Thats why Dawg is numb to ignorance and thinks he destroyed it.

 

objectless object is mind. Object is matter. Samsara and Nirvana are equal, in a sense at the end of objectless concentration you take objectless object as object and dissolve it, after coming out of that jhana you can attain pranja wisdom.

 

from 4th jhana i think Dawg entered Obe attained the yin powers and now clinging to them and making them better.

Edited November 30, 2014 by allinone

[Maddie]

Hey Dawg another question lol...

 

 

You have talked about the spirit world quite a bit. What can one do if the spirit world is making trouble for someone in the physical world?

 

Matthew

[dawg]

Tibetan Ice

 

 

I have two questions, or topics.

The first one is about the voice in the mind. Here is the analogy. There is a speaker and a microphone in the head (mind). It is what creates the sound of "talking" or non vocalized mind chatter. I'm trying to figure out, within the context of your model, if the conscious mind controls the microphone, or if the subconscious mind does. Or, perhaps they both share it? …

 

most people think they have only one mind, and that the voice is their one mind thinking… and believe they make the descisions they make… and they don’t realize that they have two separate minds, a conscious mind and a subconscious mind… and that their subconscious mind totally controls them, feeding them conditioned responses that it has been programmed with…once you realize this, the only tool you have to regain control of (to liberate) your subconscious mind is your conscious mind… unlike the subconscious mind, the conscious mind can think outside the box of its conditioning…

 

 

Would you say that the subconscious mind has the microphone most of the time and through it it speaks to the conscious mind? Would it also be fair to say that the conscious mind also grabs the microphone to talk to the subconscious mind? It appears that way to me. Yesterday, I grabbed the mike, and looked directly at the other part of the mind that was talking and asked it who it was. The voice went totally silent. First time in a long time, it had nothing to say. It almost seemed like it had been hurt or that someone had told it to shut up. In this analogy, then, wouldn't mantra repetition be the case where you are trying to take the mike back from the subconscious? …

 

Yes!... it is a method to silence the voice of the subconscious mind…

 

 

The second topic I would like your opinion on is this... There is a center of awareness in the middle of the head in the mind that flits about, moving from one thought, sensation, sound or stimulus to another as they occur. It is like a limp finger that points to the various stimuli, somewhat like a periscope from the heart (I've traced it back to the heart).

 

 

The subconscious mind controls the 5 lower chakras… you could say they are extensions of the subconscious mind… but we feel the emotions of the chakras where they are located in the body, not in our subconscious mind…

 

Typically this periscope is hard to control and jumps around to the next most exciting stimuli willy nilly. Would you say that this periscope is controlled by the subconscious mind, or at least that the subconscious mind uses it to look around? Is not the point of breath meditation to learn to gain control of his periscope and keep it focused or controlled by the conscious mind?

 

Yes…

I can envision that if the conscious mind had perfect control over the subconscious…

 

it is not “controlling the subconscious mind, but destroying the delusion that controls it… then your subconscious mind becomes your best friend and soul mate…

 

 

then in a sense the conscious mind would be controlling the giant that you speak of.

 

(the conscious mind can process 40 bits of information per second, but the subconscious mind can process 40,000,000 bits per second, and it keeps our heart pumping blood, the lungs breathing, etc…the conscious could could never ”control” the subconscious mind… it is liberating the subconscious mind…

 

Is the whole point to use the conscious mind to gain single pointedness in order to gain the necessary concentration to penetrate and shatter the delusion that has settled into the subconscious mind? I think I am on the right track, trying to map your explanations to my understanding and experiences. Would you agree?

 

Yes I agree !

 

Dawg

[dawg]

The self who is aware is the "voice of delusion".- Samsara

The deletion of intention is when you remove the self or the "I" who is aware. Hindus "i am" or objectless concentration.- Nirvana

 

i assume Dawg entered Nirvana. He didn't made it as a object(objectless object) and realize it. Thats why Dawg is numb to ignorance and thinks he destroyed it.

 

objectless object is mind. Object is matter. Samsara and Nirvana are equal, in a sense at the end of objectless concentration you take objectless object as object and dissolve it, after coming out of that jhana you can attain pranja wisdom.

 

from 4th jhana i think Dawg entered Obe attained the yin powers and now clinging to them and making them better.

 

allinone

 

I appreciate your concern, but it is obvious that your spiritual attainment is not high… and that you have no knowledge of the path I took to reach awakening… nor do you understand how consciousness or delusion works… When you speak, your ignorance shows and gives you away…

 

I reached complete awakening when I destroyed my delusion… a person is either awake or not awake, you can not mistake it… there is no in between, and it is permanent… end of story… if you ever aspire to reach awakening, you will need to understand why I say what I say…

 

Dawg

[dawg]

ALL KARMA IS NEUTRAL

 

TO THINK THAT THERE IS “GOOD KARMA” AND “BAD KARMA” IS DELUSION

 

Karma is Karma… there is no such thing as “good Karma” or “bad Karma”, there is only “Karma”... “Karma” is neutral, neither “good” nor “bad”… Karma is neutral “cause” and “effect”… our intention is the “cause”, Karma is the “effect”… we call some Karma “good, because we like it, and want it… we call some Karma “bad” because we don’t like it, and don’t want it… but all Karma is neutral… it just is…!

 

It is “delusion” to call Karma “good” or “bad”… if you cling to “good Karma”, you are also clinging to “bad Karma”… they are the two sides of the same coin… you cannot have one without the other… if you cling to good Karma, you will not reach awakening… the highest level you can attain is a high heaven called a “Brahmin Realm”… it is not good Karma that gets you to awakening… it is destroying delusion that gets you to awakening…

 

Dawg

[allinone]

@Dawg

what you are saying is just an idea because you are clinging to knowledge. To say something right is you are clinging to wrong.

 

if you know you are awakened you are actually not.

Edited December 2, 2014 by allinone

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Ocean Form

[allinone]

Interesting how people get less and less adamant the more posts they have on here....

 

Its like a fellow slave has broken out and leaving other slaves still prisoned. Reference to the body and mind. Mind liberated, body is still caged.

Edited December 2, 2014 by allinone

[Infinity]

Hi Dawg,

 

To begin with many thanks for this thread it is very interesting and I have been reading it and rereading it for a while. Really love your very pragmatic down to earth approach.

 

I have some questions:

 

Why cannot the Karma (unconscious minds conditioning) of this life be removed? Surely entering a thoughtless state (nirvana?) would allow you freedom from conditioning now?

 

Also if you are fully concious do you still sleep (go unconscious)?

 

Years ago I stopped all thought on three successive nights where by my body filled with energy and buzzed in ecstasy until I felt and heard the pressure in the centre of my head crack open. My forehead seemed to open from the front and fold back as feeling of my body disappeared, kind of like a telescope roof opening). As it happened I felt as if I was sinking in to the bed and in this state I was just awareness. There were no objects just my awareness looking through my eyes (also no more ecstasy?). Do you 'see' division now or is everything a feeling that is you? And what in your opinion happened then to me? My practice at that time was to stop all thoughts (world description) and see what is real at all costs.

 

I have studied hypnosis and have always played with it and the idea of using it to unhypnotise/unconditional myself would you advocate this way too to assist in getting to no thought silence.

 

Last one, what in your opinion is possible? I feel anything is? In the state I mentioned Above I now wonder what was possible as when I focused the energy on my arm (before head crack) it became like a rock. It seems a possibility to me that anything is possible but maybe without the egos description it's not that important anymore. Plus the new perspective would give new insights I guess. So what is possible?

 

Again many thanks and all my respect to you for travelling on the nobelist path and your achievements on the way.

 

Peter S

Edited December 2, 2014 by Infinity

[allinone]

trying to stop the thought is like trying to stop the loud noise from a person who is yelling for help suffering in hell.

[Infinity]

trying to stop the thought is like trying to stop the loud noise from a person who is yelling for help suffering in hell.

Maybe but understanding that thoughts are illusions stops it by taking away it's power.

 

So stoping thoughts is easy with greater awareness.

 

Hope that helps and clarifies things.

 

All my best.

 

Peter S

[dawg]

Infinity,

 

 

Why cannot the Karma (unconscious minds conditioning) of this life be removed? Surely entering a thoughtless state (nirvana?) would allow you freedom from conditioning now?

 

When you awaken all of your active conditioning in your subconscious mind is destroyed and drops away, and you make no more karma…both your subconscious mind and your conscious mind are squeaky clean, all defilements are gone… but there is a record of your present life and all of your past lives in the Akashic Record (which is a permanent record of everything in the universe… so you still owe karmic debts… (if you are not familiar with the Akashic Record, Google it and read up on it… I think you will find it interesting)… using hypnosis, it is possible for a hypnotist to regress you to past lives, and to see your past lives… access to the Acashic Record is from your subconscious mind…

 

 

Also if you are fully concious do you still sleep (go unconscious)? You still sleep, because you need to rest your body, but you are never “unconscious”…

 

your conscious mind goes into your subconscious mind …which is always in the spirit world… normal dreams take place in your subconscious mind… lucid dreams take place when your conscious mind leaves the subconscious mind and goes out into the spirit world… that is to say that “lucid dreams” are you experiencing the spirit world, in your sleep… that is why you can fly in lucid dreams…

 

years ago I stopped all thought on three successive nights where by my body filled with energy and buzzed in ecstasy.

 

the goal of breath meditation is “ to stop all thoughts… when you stop all thoughts it is called “concentration” ( “samahdi”)…(samidhi is said to be a taste of nirvana…) when you are in samahdi you frequently see visions that are called “nimita”… you might hear music, or singing, or see beautiful different colored patterns of colors, or bright lights, feelings, ecstasy, etc…

 

 

Until I felt and heard the pressure in the centre of my head crack open. My forehead seemed to open from the front and fold back as feeling of my body disappeared, kind of like a telescope roof opening). As it happened I felt as if I was sinking in to the bed and in this state I was just awareness. There were no objects … just my awareness looking through my eyes (also no more ecstasy?).

 

 

Once your awareness was focused on the nimitas, your concentration was destroyed… if you had ignored the nimita your concentrate would have continued…

 

And what in your opinion happened then to me? My practice at that time was to stop all thoughts (world description) and see what is real at all costs. you were in your subconscious mind… Do you 'see' division now or is everything a feeling that is you?

 

No...I am completely unified now… but I don’t see my personality and conscious mind as being “me”… my subconscious mind is “me, the spirit that I am… ”my conscious mind is unified with my subconscious mind… and the physical world is unified with spirit world… sometime when I get in my bed to go to sleep, and close my eyes, I find myself in the spirit world… so I lay myself down in the spirit world and go to sleep… sometimes I (my spirit body) wakes up in the spirit world… and I have to open my physical eyes to see the physical world… don’t forget that your subconscious mind is your spirit body…

 

have studied hypnosis and have always played with it and the idea of using it to unhypnotise/unconditional myself would you advocate this way too to assist in getting to no thought silence.

 

You should experiment with it… record several tapes to hypnotize yourself… then try them out and fine tune them…and since hypnosis is aimed at the subconscious mind and what it believes to be true… it could be a very effective tool… you could go to another hypnotist, and have him do a past life regression… if you do it, let me know how it turns out..

 

Last one, what in your opinion is possible? I feel anything ? In the state I mentioned Above I now wonder what was possible as when I focused the energy on my arm (before head crack) it became like a rock. It seems a possibility to me that anything is possible but maybe without the egos description it's not that important anymore. Plus the new perspective would give new insights I guess. So what is possible?

 

Each person is unique… some people could meditate all their lives, and never reach any attainment… other people meditate and reach attainments quickly and easily… it is possible that you are such a person… if you meditated seriously, you might progress quickly...

 

 

Dawg

Edited December 7, 2014 by dawg

[Moonbar]

.

[Infinity]

Thanks Dawg for you response. Going to chew all this further and digest. :-)

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Dawg,

 

You said:

 

Once your awareness was focused on the nimitas, your concentration was destroyed if you had ignored the nimita your concentrate would have continued

 

Are you aware of the Theravada tradition, with the jhanas where you ignore the nimittas up to a point. That point is where you have a bright shiny nimitta that looks like a sun or a moon. Then you are supposed to shift your attention to that nimitta and concentrate on that. That then propels you into one of the jhanas. Refer: Ajahn Brahm, many writings including "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond"

 

Are you following a tradition or are you saying that it doesn't work like that?

[ॐDominicusॐ]

HI Dawg,

So I intuitively felt that you were back on and posting, jumped on taobums, and BOOM, front page. I have some questions.

 

1. So what's your take on Intuition? It is also connected to Subconscious, but cannot be wrong? I've seen people on the path argue about who was right when they were both going by intuition, but choosing different.

 

2. Why can't karma be transcended? The seeds completely uprooted and just transcend the whole karmic system so as to not play out what's left? It seems unfair that stuff done in ignorance, and because of it, then has to be tallied up after ignorance is snuffed out.

 

3. Can one navigate the spirit realms to get to the Highest heaven by whatever modes, stealth, love, thought-less awareness with intention, or even some mystics say you have to keep repeating that "you are from the first and highest pre-existent realm," and that it acts as a one way ticket, then Enlightenment can be gotten at that highest realm.

 

4. Can you speak on Absolute Beingness, it is the state on which Unity seems to rest on, yet is prior to it, unborn, unmanifest, and seems to be linked to the Lower Dan Tian as a doorway to it.

 

5. Which brings up next question. 3 Dan Tian System, or Chakra system, or are they united?

 

6. Also what about radiating Metta to all beings? Is this vital, as it is in a number of Buddhist branches?

 

7. Also, it seems Adviata Vedanta can do the same as a mantra, by constantly detaching from and no longer identify with any thoughts/thinker/body, access to the source of Thought manifests, and in that source, there is no thought. So are there other legit Paths to manifest Enlightenment in the manner of what you have reached?

 

8. What is left for you now? Any more cultivation of any additional aspects?

 

Much Love and respect

[dawg]

Tibetan Ice

 

Are you aware of the Theravada tradition, with the jhanas where you ignore the nimittas up to a point. That point is where you have a bright shiny nimitta that looks like a sun or a moon. Then you are supposed to shift your attention to that nimitta and concentrate on that. That then propels you into one of the jhanas. Refer: Ajahn Brahm, many writings including "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond"

Are you following a tradition or are you saying that it doesn't work like that?

 

 

I follow the tradition of Ajahn Mun… (but I translate the Pali language words into English)… the abbot of the monastery where I meditated was a student of Ajahn Mun… both were enlightened… I followed the meditation instructions of the abbot, who followed the meditation instructions of his abbot … Ajahn Mun died around 1950… the abbot where I meditated died in 2011, age almost 98 years…he appeared to me shortly before I awakened… and smiled at me… the first time he ever smiled at me… he knew…!

 

I know what jhanas are but was strongly discouraged from doing jhanas… and the few mediators that passed through the monastery where I was , who did do jhanas did not seem to have much attainment… they still had all the defilements in their subconscious mind that would prevent them from reaching awakening… the whole point of the meditation I was doing, was to get rid of the defilements in my “Citta” (subconscious mind) step by step by sitting in Samahdi” (concentration)… so I could reach awakening… I see the jhanas as high states of concentration that are useless unless you have already reached awakening… and even then useless if you are living in the mundane world…

 

Dawg

Edited December 13, 2014 by dawg

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Dawg.

Thank you very much for explaining that. I'm trying to understand the point of view.

I have found an interesting video, perhaps one of the most profound and revealing videos I have seen in a long time. Not only does it caution about attachment to visions, but perhaps it explains the true definition of the Middle Way.

I hope you don't mind me posting it here...

 

Edited December 13, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

I also found an interesting book which talks about the visions, nimittas of Ajahn Mun. It seems he could obtain teachings from nimittas...

 

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/acariya-mun.pdf

 

Those monks who are naturally inclined to perceive external phenomena possess the necessary psychic ability to receive such advice on their practice. This is known as listening to Dhamma by way of nimittas appearing in meditation. That is, the teacher presents his teaching in the form of a nimitta, while the disciple understands that teaching as he perceives the nimitta. This may seem rather mysterious to those who have never heard about it or experienced it for themselves. Some people may reject such psychic communication out of hand as being sheer nonsense; but in truth, it does occur. Practicing monks having a natural psychic inclination perceive various external phenomena in the same manner. However, this talent is not shared by all practicing monks. Rather, individuals possessing this capability are special cases, meaning they have previously developed the specific virtuous qualities suited to such psychic achievements. For instance, the Buddha and the Arahants appeared in Ãcariya Muns meditation as nimittas, so he was able to hear their teachings in that way. Similarly, disciples of Ãcariya Mun, who possessed similar psychic tendencies, were able to perceive nimittas of him, or of the Buddhas and the Arahants, and so hear their teachings. In principle, it can be compared to the nimitta that the Lord Buddha used to teach his mother when she resided in the Tãvatiÿsa heavenly realm. But the Lord Buddha constitutes a very exceptional case, one which people consent to believe in far more readily than that of someone less exalted, even though both share the same causal basis which makes it difficult to further elaborate on this matter.

 

Edited December 13, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice