making entheogens legal

[Songtsan]

That's all well and good but just because you've tripped a lot doesn't make your personal opinions worth anything. Not an insult, but supported by statements like "enthrogens make ppl live longer" and other blanket statements about all entheogens. Unfortunately, but inevitably, many impressionable and ignorant ppl read this forum to gain knowledge of such things so i encourage you to be more factual and careful with your words.

 

I am quite convinced and will be stating my opinion on this as I see fit. That is what forums are for. Let's just say that entheogens are a significant part of my religion, and thus my belief in them is based on gnosis, which is as important as rote knowledge and empirical studies, as any enlightened being could point out. I appreciate your concerns.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Songtsan

[Flolfolil]

why does everyone need to justify or legalize?

 

If you see benefits from taking a drug, then do it.

 

If you don't want to get arrested, look at your behavior and see if that is what is getting you arrested and not the illegality of the drug. Someone Who Isn't Me has used drugs from their teenage years up until now and never got caught using drugs unless they were also doing some other type of crime...

 

If a drug is really harmless, live it. Use drugs responsibly and you will not need to tell people it is safe, because they will see it themselves. Be able to fulfill your societal duties, no matter what those may be, and then people will stop looking down on drug users. Just saying what SWIM's father taught him.

[Songtsan]

Albert Hoffman, discoverer of LSD, believed that sub-threshold doses of LSD improved longevity and improved cognitive functioning. He lived to the age of 102.

 

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-psychedelic-future-of-the-mind-how-entheogens-are-enhancing-cognition-boosting-intelligence-and-raising-values

 

the above link describes how entheogens can improve immune functions above other things. Improved immune functioning is correlated with improved longevity.

 

http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/16/magic-mushrooms-can-improve-psychological-health-long-term/

 

psychological wellness and psilocybe muchroom use...please note that psychological health is correlated with increased longevity.

 

http://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20110929/magic-mushroom-drug-anti-aging-effect-personality

 

http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/roberts-immune.html

 

entheogens and immune system boost

Edited July 1, 2013 by Songtsan

[konchog uma]

Albert Hoffman, discoverer of LSD, believed that sub-threshold doses of LSD improved longevity and improved cognitive functioning. He lived to the age of 102.

 

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-psychedelic-future-of-the-mind-how-entheogens-are-enhancing-cognition-boosting-intelligence-and-raising-values

 

the above link describes how entheogens can improve immune functions above other things. Improved immune functioning is correlated with improved longevity.

 

http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/16/magic-mushrooms-can-improve-psychological-health-long-term/

 

psychological wellness and psilocybe muchroom use...please note that psychological health is correlated with increased longevity.

 

http://www.webmd.com/balance/news/20110929/magic-mushroom-drug-anti-aging-effect-personality

 

http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/roberts-immune.html

 

entheogens and immune system boost

 

That's great, really fascinating, and worth much more than your own personal opinions. Thank you for researching.

[Songtsan]

ALL of my personal opinions come from research essentially - some of it so far back that I don't remember specifics...Its not like I have access to a database of journal articles...I am no longer in college. I consider my own personal opinions worth much more than empirical observations. An ounce of direct experience is worth a pound of book knowledge. One thing that I have noted from my own worthwhile experience is that hallucinogens can actively assist in clearing the meridian channels. I need no books to tell me this, just as you need no books to tell you that gravity exists. To me some things are simply axiomatic.

 

People are living books. The average human nervous system contains more information and processing capability than the average supercomputer, and possibly even more than the internet itself. Knowledge is shared between human nervous systems in ways that we do not even comprehend. Perhaps you have confused the things that I state as mere personal opinions when they are in fact based on much empirical evidence and shared wisdom. I am sorry I wasn't able to write a scholarly paper and include references for you, but this site is about thousands of years of compounded wisdom more than it is about rote knowledge from recent studies completed only in the last 100 years or less. Entheogens have been in use since the dawn of man, and the knowledge they teach has contributed HEAVILY to human evolution and spirituality itself. I don't know what spiritual path you are on, but I can guarantee you that it was influenced at many points in the past by entheogen use. I know that some denominations of tantric or esoteric Buddhism have allowed the use of these sacraments to be used as skillful means, and of course I needn't tell you the effects that the use of soma and cannabis have had on the development of the rig vedas and other tantric teachings.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Songtsan

[konchog uma]

im glad you think so highly of yourself lol ... its nothing personal, its just that opinions as they say are like assholes, everybodys got one

 

so its not Your opinions that im not interested in lol.. its just opinions in general

[Songtsan]

im glad you think so highly of yourself lol ... its nothing personal, its just that opinions as they say are like assholes, everybodys got one

 

so its not Your opinions that im not interested in lol.. its just opinions in general

 

If you have ever studied the way research is done in academia, you will know that the opinions of the researchers involved affect the outcome of the results heavily, so regardless of source, opinions are in everything, including empirical science. Statistics can be manipulated to show any desired results. The only thing I truly trust in the academic world are meta-analyses. Also, it is too hard to study the results of entheogens on human longevity, as you can't put humans in labs, or control for other variables, such as diet, genetics, environment, etc. Studies with rats or mice, etc. may not be all that applicable to humans, so given that the subject under discussion cannot really be found all that much in scientific journal articles for humans, one must of course make an educated guess. Opinions are much like educated guesses, based on best fit models. Yes, this is what I do. I will see if I can find some animal models to compare to, since you are so interested and impressed by science (I know I am). It seems obvious to me that entheogens in general can improve psychological health (in general), and it is now generally accepted that in mindbody health, emotional states, mental states, and physical states all interrelate and affect eachother. So thus, besides the aforementioned immune system benefits, and the possibility of improving the health of the meridian channels, the improvement of mind/emotional health will by the simplest of logical formulas (and well accepted theories of the holistic health - proven now by millions of studies and thousands of years of accumulated wisdom), extend longevity. It's simply classical logic. I am enjoying talking with you...it allows me to expend some of my excess Yang energy.

[konchog uma]

Indeed huge problems when it comes to the science. Its just my opinion perhaps that objective research is worth more than people's conjecture. So take that or leave it. Since you value the personal perspective, I will offer that I have done a lifetime's worth of drugs, quite literally i think. I used to eat a ten strip just to go out day tripping, and basically explored hallucinogens, entheogens, and altered states in general until San Pedro, or its emissary, literally took my hand and said "Its time to stop. Put it all down." So i did. I don't even smoke pot anymore, much less drink or smoke tobac. And in the spirit of the worth of the subjective here, i am compelled to share that my life improved tenfold, more, perhaps immeasurably. I have been able to generate lasting happiness and emotional wellbeing as compared to having a wildly fluctuating emotional life... I have been able to maintain meditative stability with almost infinitely greater success, like night and day improvement... i have been able to experience more clarity, in my logical thinking, my visionary experiences, resting in non-conceptual awareness, in dreams, in fact i can't think of an aspect of my psyche that hasn't been affected with greater clarity. Lastly the constant thirst for something external to myself to "generate that next breakthrough" or "have a meaningful experience" lol or any of the delusions i spun for myself, is negated. I have everything I need with my yogic practice (by which i mean all of it, yoga meditation sexual practice etc) and I am literally so much happier that i am jumping up and fucking down on Oprah's couch. its insane. (maybe i'll divorce myself in a year).

 

I enjoy talking to you too, I've just read too much bullshit on the internet to give a god damn what anything thinks. I don't take my own opinions that seriously, and frankly, as much belief and need to prove a point as a scientific study will inevitably be tainted by might exist, I still value science and empiricism more than someone who just thinks something. The mind is too flimsy and self-serving to be trusted if you ask me. What people think is like fog in the morning, and what they say is like the chirping of birds. Whatever. So anyway, thats just my experience, and i dont think its best for everyone, but it has shaped the way i approach mind altering substances (or don't approach them as the case may be). I am just a fool on this ship, but since i have no point of view to speak from but my own, I just thought i would share. I hope it benefits someone.

[Songtsan]

I do like objective research...but I also like my own opinion especially on things that haven't been researched much...if the available research outweighs my own opinion on something, I am most likely humble enough to accede the point. I have also tripped like crazy...10-hit LSDs, ayahuasca, dmt, and dozens of other things, especially research chems. IMO, they are useful in moderation - like maybe once a month max...I tend to use them every few days during certain phases, and then stop using them for years. I like the abrupt personality changes that can occur. I should make a point to never speak in absolutes - its intended, but out of convenience I often fail to state a caveat emptor...so entheogens are clearly not for everybody, and there is advantages to the path of discipline and purity too. Advantages to everything really. I am pretty much exhausted on this topic now as I have said pretty much anything I could say, and its becoming circular. All points good/bad, those who know say nothing. To thine own self be true. Thine own self is an illusion. To thine own illusion be true. Illusions change all the time. To thine own illusion, constantly changing, constantly be the changing truth. Truths are illusions. Mass-truths are more likely to be really true, but definitely not guaranteed. Scientific studies that are compounded more likely to be truer. (why I like meta-analyses). Never stagnate. Beliefs are true lies. Truth never stays true for long. Opinions aren't worth a damn. I like my opinions, but they always are changing. Seek not to hold to opinions. Those who know, say nothing. This is my opinion. For now.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Songtsan