mewtwo Posted June 28, 2013 If learning consists in daily accumulating and Tao consists in daily diminishing, Where does this leave smart people? does the higher IQ you have meen you dont grasp the tao as easily as a person of lower IQ? What about savants and autistics? Â Ive take a few iq tests and i had similar results 118 121 123 so i say i have an iq of 121. Anyone else know theres? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted June 28, 2013 Did you get those from internet tests? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewtwo Posted June 28, 2013 one was from internet test the other two were from mensa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yondaime109 Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) My IQ is between 96-104 based on the ones I've tooken on the internet. Scored a 108 on one based on pure fluid intelligence though. Edited June 28, 2013 by yondaime109 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted June 28, 2013 one was from internet test the other two were from mensa. Â Interesting, my understanding was that the internet tests were really inaccurate but the scores are similar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewtwo Posted June 28, 2013 anywho what are your thoughts on my questions on tao and smarts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ish Posted June 28, 2013 anywho what are your thoughts on my questions on tao and smarts? Â Â I'd say some intelligence is very helpful. It can help you to have a better perspective on the world. Â IQ however is very unimportant to spiritual stuff in my opinion. The skills they are testing don't apply at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 28, 2013 Hahahah...once you know the Tao and understand the Tao, you are more or less a god. IQ???? You may process some sorts of super powers and having the ability to heal yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 28, 2013 Be careful when considering the concepts submitted by Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu regarding accumulating and deminishing. Â There is nothing wrong with accumulating knowledge for the purpose of gaining wisdom. Once we have the wisdom we can forget the knowledge. Â Deminishing our ego and our desires will give us freedom. Â In the end we will be free and wise. Â In the most part IQ tests test only knowledge. I agree with the above that the tests have nothing to do with spirituality. And wisdom is rarely required to attain a good score on the test. Â I think mine was 37 but I'm not sure as I can't remember. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewtwo Posted June 29, 2013 what do you think lao tzu was talking about with "not learning"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) 37 would put a person at the level of a frog Ha ha ha ha That ain't right Mh Edited June 29, 2013 by Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted June 29, 2013 what do you think lao tzu was talking about with "not learning"? I think is to unlearn. To decondition our mind. Learning is a social conditioning. Knowledge allows us to see the world with a set of assumptions or paradigms. Knowledge can also obstruct our views of the world. Once you have unlearned your mind, you would begin to see the Tao as impermanence, in a state of change, and empty. This wisdom would give rise to new forms and new births. That's when you gain "super powers." "Super insights" about the world because your mind can pierce through the true nature of phenomena without being deluded by learned knowledge and thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted June 29, 2013 Of course it depends on the individual, but if you have your whole sense of self worth and self esteem caught up in your IQ, which is incredibly common with intelligent people in this society, then it can cause problems because it is harder to get out of your mental attachments and concepts of life and into what is really going on, and can create a false sense of superiority. I live in Cambridge which has many of the brightest students in the world but there is little spiritual realization or even exploration around these parts, it is all a big intellectual circle jerk most of the time leading nowhere. Â If you can be really intelligent without becoming really attached and identified with that intelligence then that is something wonderful, the really smart people come to realise how little they know, but the people with high IQ often glorify themselves in the miniscule fraction they have worked out 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 29, 2013 37 would put a person at the level of a frog Ha ha ha ha That ain't right Mh I had to make it like it really wasn't right. Doesn't matter my scores. Actually, I have had two full tests, the first when I joined the Army and then one just before I retired. I did four years of college after I got out so I likely got dumber from that. Â Yeah, my frogs and I have some really nice conversations; mostly about eating bugs and how to properly call a female for mating. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewtwo Posted June 29, 2013 moo oh wait bark bark bark no thats not it eather hum must have forgot frog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vmarco Posted June 29, 2013 If learning consists in daily accumulating and Tao consists in daily diminishing, Where does this leave smart people? does the higher IQ you have meen you dont grasp the tao as easily as a person of lower IQ? What about savants and autistics? Like this question....and would like to see if there are any correlations between IQ and the awareness beyond the 6 senses. I had an individual IQ test when I twelve at Villanova Univ, consisting of 4 different lengthy tests,...and thus would challenge the validity of an internet test. Â The larger problem with the question however,...how to locate those whose awareness goes beyond the 6 senses, and give the an IQ before and after their uncovering of awareness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted June 29, 2013 There are so many different types of intelligence - emotional, social, mathematical, spatial, and so forth...then there is memory ability. For example, their are idiot savants like rain man (who was actually real by the way and had memorized entire encyclopedias). But beyond the ability to recall facts is the ability to link supposedly unconnected mental objects to each. This is where genius comes in, and insanity too. Paranoia is when you make links that are delusional and odd, but you believe them to be true. This same ability is what also gives one epiphanies about reality - deep spiritual understandings. So the ability to link information - and the number of objects one can hold in the memory at the same time (most people can hold 5-7 objects in their heads at once) determines your ability to grasp concepts in some ways. Something as complex as the nature of reality must require one to hold various mental objects in the head and grasp the relationships between them. Of course this is all just mind, and mind must be dropped. I think there is more than one path. One can certainly unify with the Tao without understanding the Tao with mind...in fact, can the Tao ever truly be understood with mind? Well, you know the saying that goes with that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DalTheJigsaw123 Posted June 29, 2013 I averaged 115? However, when I was younger, I was in special ed for Math, go figure! LOL:) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami_MAPUA Posted June 29, 2013 Huh? So you're saying that as we travel the Way, our IQ will diminish? or for that matter, does meditating make you dumber? Yeah right! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted June 29, 2013 IQ and being able to progress in cultivation aren't directly connected, and smart people have a hard time letting go of concepts. Â However, smart people can more easily notice some pitfalls on the Way. They can discern practices that lead to dead tree Zen from those that lead to jhana, for example, by considering the effects of particular approaches on the mind. Â I would also expect all cognitive functions of a successful cultivator to improve over time. Meditation is already known to benefit memory and meta-cognition. Anyone who has truly achieved shamatha could become a leading figure in most any field they wanted. Â Even on the level of just knowing stuff, it has been said that bodhisattvas should be masters of everything from literature to psychology to history, not just cultivation. And 'if there is anything he does not know, a Confucian is ashamed'. Â The Buddha didn't cling to his knowledge, but apparently he was actually pretty good at mathematics. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) moo oh wait bark bark bark no thats not it eather hum must have forgot frog Did you know that the health of frogs is one of the best indicators as to the health of the environment of this planet? They are amongst the first species to die off when water and air pollution increases. Edited June 29, 2013 by Marblehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 29, 2013 Huh? So you're saying that as we travel the Way, our IQ will diminish? or for that matter, does meditating make you dumber? Yeah right! No, No, NO!!!!! Hehehe. I think you might have misunderstood or perhaps you have read someone who has misrepresented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted June 29, 2013 I think its being in your head too much that diminishes chances to live in the Tao. Seeing thoughts as oneself instead of ones tool. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 29, 2013 I think its being in your head too much that diminishes chances to live in the Tao. Seeing thoughts as oneself instead of ones tool. One point for you and worthy of repeating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
