IQ's and the tao?

[ChiForce]

Huh? So you're saying that as we travel the Way, our IQ will diminish? or for that matter, does meditating make you dumber?

Yeah right!

No, you would ace it but, again, why it matters. You have some sorts of super powers and having the ability to heal your body, who cares about IQ..... That's like asking Superman to take an IQ test.

[mYTHmAKER]

If learning consists in daily accumulating and Tao consists in daily diminishing, Where does this leave smart people? does the higher IQ you have meen you dont grasp the tao as easily as a person of lower IQ? What about savants and autistics?

 

Ive take a few iq tests and i had similar results 118 121 123 so i say i have an iq of 121. Anyone else know theres?

People who do well in spelling bees are more in tune with the Tao

[Marblehead]

People who do well in spelling bees are more in tune with the Tao

Hehehe. Have you done well in spelling bees?

[mYTHmAKER]

Hehehe. Have you done well in spelling bees?

Collected a lot of honey

[Songtsan]

I think spiritual pursuits improve IQ...focusing generally increases willpower, and increasing the ability to focus will increase the ability to contemplate ideas and by being focused, keep out extraneous, useless information, thus allowing greater experience of epiphanies no matter what the subject of contemplation.

[Marblehead]

Interesting thought but no further comments.

[xor]

Like someone wise said smart people learn systems fast, even dumb systems...

[Songtsan]

Like someone wise said smart people learn systems fast, even dumb systems...

 

although sometimes smart people are involved in more mind chatter and could be lost in sidetracks for a long while whereas dumber people with more stick-to-iteveness may succeed faster in the short-run or long-run...

[Tsunami_MAPUA]

IQ and being able to progress in cultivation aren't directly connected, and smart people have a hard time letting go of concepts.

 

However, smart people can more easily notice some pitfalls on the Way. They can discern practices that lead to dead tree Zen from those that lead to jhana, for example, by considering the effects of particular approaches on the mind.

 

I would also expect all cognitive functions of a successful cultivator to improve over time. Meditation is already known to benefit memory and meta-cognition. Anyone who has truly achieved shamatha could become a leading figure in most any field they wanted.

 

Even on the level of just knowing stuff, it has been said that bodhisattvas should be masters of everything from literature to psychology to history, not just cultivation. And 'if there is anything he does not know, a Confucian is ashamed'.

 

The Buddha didn't cling to his knowledge, but apparently he was actually pretty good at mathematics.

emphasis mine..

 

 

Exactly! From where I'm coming from, I'm on and off the Phenomenal Memory (pmemory) program and will be restarting this week. Aside from the drills, there are ancillary exercises you have to do to develop the skills needed for effective memorization.

 

http://study.pmemory.co m/student-area/addexercises.php

 

1. One is like trataka Meditation. The aim is to improve your concentration.

 

2. One is like Quantum Entrainment. The aim is to quiet your mind so that when you do the lessons, your monkey mind will be quiet.

 

3. A set of drills to improve visualization, since pmemory is entirely built on visualization and encoding information into images.

 

So these drills are meant to cultivate what Carlos Castaneda (as cited in Lesson 8 of pmemory) calls "The Great Silence."

 

 

The habit of inner speech must be regarded as a bad habit formed during your school

years. In order to create many fast connections you need to get rid of this bad habit. This does not mean

you must never speak to yourself or inside your head. This means that you have to switch off the inner

speech when it is necessary – for instance, to view a large number of memorized images in your

imagination (one of the repetition methods).The habit of inner speech must be regarded as a bad habit formed during your school years. In order to create many fast connections you need to get rid of this bad habit. This does not mean you must never speak to yourself or inside your head. This means that you have to switch off the inner speech when it is necessary – for instance, to view a large number of memorized images in your imagination (one of the repetition methods).

 

With that said, I find it hard to digest OP's suggestion that the higher your IQ is, the more is your level of intelligence a hindrance to enlightenment. At the very least, pursuing enlightenment - either in Taoist or Buddhist terms - may in fact help you become smarter with the added benefit of being stripped of your ego, the source of your suffering.

 

Now, let me add some thoughts on being smarter. I got this idea from a person in another forum who claims to be a neuroscientist.

 

He said that IQ tests only measure your ability to do well on such tests. It's limited and can't really measure other metrics of being smart such as problem-solving in the real world, such as using old ideas to solve new problems where the old ideas weren't even developed to be used in such new contexts; or coming out with new and better ideas to solve existing problems.

 

It all boils down to neuroplasticity - the ability of your brain to form new connections. You cultivate this by being willing to learn new things and unlearn old habits. In short, letting go!

For example, one suggestion by another neuroscientist is to learn at least one foreign language every ten years.

 

 

Therefore, if being smart is about learning and unlearning, of adding new things while letting go of old stuff, how can that be a detriment to being one with the Tao?

 

Isn't it by definition being smart to let go of negative emotions? to learn Taoist breathing techniques to improve your health? to learn Chi Kung and internal martial arts? etc. etc. ?

Edited June 29, 2013 by Tsunami_MAPUA

[Songtsan]

A good book to read about building memory palaces is titled, "Moonwalking with Einstein," forgot authors name but easy enough to find it...teaches you how they used to memorize things in the olden days before writing allowed everyone to store everything in books. Fascinating read, one of my favorite books.

[松永道]

Intelligence helps. But intelligent is a hindrance too. Daodejing has a passage on this: "When a fool hears of the Dao he laughs. When an intelligent person hears of the Dao, he practices it sometimes".

 

For idiots, the obstacle is getting started. For smarties, the obstacle is diligence. Maybe it's because smart people tend to have poorly developed willpower. When you solve problems fast, the will isn't really exercised. Like a muscle, an underused will atrophies - and with will, the ability to focus, concentrate, persevere and penetrate one thing. Especially when that thing involves consciousness beyond thought.

 

Will and wisdom are homonyms in Chinese. Both are classically ascribed virtues of strong kidney function. To the ancient Chinese mind they're practically interchangeable.

 

Hence, "when a wise man hears of the Dao, he practices it diligently."

 

Incidentally, people with poor kidney function tend to be stuck in their heads. That's not exactly a sign of intelligence, but it tends to be a side effect.

Edited June 30, 2013 by 松永道

[Neophyte]

Strong Yi leads to strong chi. Hence, a stronger intelligence will ultimately lead to progress. A strong Yi is highly concentrated, as opposed to Xin which is emotional, noisy, unrestrained. Regulating the mind is the most important of the five regulations, and developing a strong Yi is essential in doing so.

 

I think that Yi and IQ and self-reinforcing: develop one and the other develops. People with high IQ's already have stronger Yi minds. They can concentrate better, and can control their Xin (monkey minds).

 

In my practice, I am working on my memory skills and knowledge to help develop my Yi. When I become vexed or mad about something, I start thinking of facts and figures, which I find helps control my emotions and regains my focus.

 

When I practice qigong or meditate, it is better to have facts and figures in my head to help enter deep concentration, than having worries, joys, hopes, sorrows, etc, flow through my mind, which would make my qigong or meditation practice useless.

 

Just remember: Strong yi leads to strong chi, and that yi and IQ are very interrelated and interconnected: changing one changes the other.

[ChiForce]

Strong Yi leads to strong chi. Hence, a stronger intelligence will ultimately lead to progress. A strong Yi is highly concentrated, as opposed to Xin which is emotional, noisy, unrestrained. Regulating the mind is the most important of the five regulations, and developing a strong Yi is essential in doing so.

 

I think that Yi and IQ and self-reinforcing: develop one and the other develops. People with high IQ's already have stronger Yi minds. They can concentrate better, and can control their Xin (monkey minds).

 

In my practice, I am working on my memory skills and knowledge to help develop my Yi. When I become vexed or mad about something, I start thinking of facts and figures, which I find helps control my emotions and regains my focus.

 

When I practice qigong or meditate, it is better to have facts and figures in my head to help enter deep concentration, than having worries, joys, hopes, sorrows, etc, flow through my mind, which would make my qigong or meditation practice useless.

 

Just remember: Strong yi leads to strong chi, and that yi and IQ are very interrelated and interconnected: changing one changes the other.

No, Yi consciousness is not IQ. Having a higher IQ, it does not lead to greater Chi or allowing you to complete the microcosmic orbit. Having a strong Yi consciousness, on the other hand, can allow you to control and gather you chi energy. Yi consciousness is the will or the intent WITHOUT attachment, seeing the phenomena as they are. For examples, how does using your IQ you can move your chi along your chi channels? Yi consciousness belongs to the outer 6 senses. That's something your IQ can't comprehend...

[Neophyte]

No, Yi consciousness is not IQ.

 

I know. That's what I said.

 

 

Having a higher IQ, it does not lead to greater Chi or allowing you to complete the microcosmic orbit. Having a strong Yi consciousness, on the other hand, can allow you to control and gather you chi energy.

 

Again, that's essentially what I said. Having a strong Yi consciousness can allow you to control and gather your chi energy. Where we disagree is that having a higher IQ does not lead to greater chi. I said that Yi and IQ--although different--are interconnected and interrelated; improving one improves the other. Whilst having a higher IQ does NOT lead to a greater chi directly--it does so indirectly by empowering your Yi.

 

 

Yi consciousness is the will or the intent WITHOUT attachment, seeing the phenomena as they are. For examples, how does using your IQ you can move your chi along your chi channels? Yi consciousness belongs to the outer 6 senses. That's something your IQ can't comprehend...

 

Using your IQ can NOT move your chi along your chi channels: I agree with you on that. But having a high IQ will be valuable in developing Yi and controlling Xin. Like I was saying in my post, I notice that having facts and figures and calculations bubbling in my mind, is excellent at controlling my xin--monkey mind--when I sit down to meditate (in fact, at any time).

Edited July 1, 2013 by Neophyte

[Stosh]

Intelligence helps. But intelligent is a hindrance too. Daodejing has a passage on this: "When a fool hears of the Dao he laughs. When an intelligent person hears of the Dao, he practices it sometimes".

 

For idiots, the obstacle is getting started. For smarties, the obstacle is diligence. Maybe it's because smart people tend to have poorly developed willpower. When you solve problems fast, the will isn't really exercised. Like a muscle, an underused will atrophies - and with will, the ability to focus, concentrate, persevere and penetrate one thing. Especially when that thing involves consciousness beyond thought.

 

Will and wisdom are homonyms in Chinese. Both are classically ascribed virtues of strong kidney function. To the ancient Chinese mind they're practically interchangeable.

 

Hence, "when a wise man hears of the Dao, he practices it diligently."

 

Incidentally, people with poor kidney function tend to be stuck in their heads. That's not exactly a sign of intelligence, but it tends to be a side effect.

Ha ha aha

 

Very slick ! who wants to be the smart one and who is the fool?

Edited July 1, 2013 by Stosh