...

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[3bob]

that is a deep one...

 

I have not read the text you mention but agree that hate would seemingly have a different meaning there than compared to its common one.

 

My take - A private does what a private can do, a general does what a general can do and both normally have certain designs of their own but only the Great Tao can and does it all; also the greatest virtue in itself is not really held (so to speak) by a great sage for such virtue is itself holding the sage in both human and divine form! (a true sage knows this and is become an egoless and pure matrix for the Great Tao to work through without hesitation or doubt) Further, we can not raise ourselves only by ourselves - for only the trusting hand that reaches out with no hidden designs of it own will be fully taken by the Great hand of Tao and thus raised beyond the limited designs of just mankind, even a well intended mankind and made greater use of in its all inclusively directed design.

 

Edited July 7, 2013 by 3bob

[Chang]

This is indeed a deep question to ponder.

 

With my own practice of meditation I like to think that I am working towards a gradual falling away of negative emotion, returning as it were to the state of the uncarved block.

 

I have had some success and whilst I could not say that I am free from the grip of anger I would say that its hold over me is much lighter than in the past.

 

As regards cats question as to whether we can just say no to the hate as it arises in us? I would have to answer no as regards myself. I could only regard hate as an emotion - which makes it difficult for the rational mind to deal with.

[XieJia]

Modern English is a very precise language, sometimes it have difficulties representing ancient Eastern languages which tends to be more generalized; some ambiguous meanings are lost through translation.

 

From my experience, the only thing blinding the man to his virtue would be his ignorance.

 

The Dao acts through both the ignorant man and the wise man,

the only differences is that

the wise man knows and understand his nature and circumstances; putting his mind and actions in accord to the Dao;
in this virtue, it brings him peace and contentment.

the ignorant man knows not and understand not of his nature and circumstances; putting his confused mind and actions against the Dao; this brings him suffering and disappointment.

 

Thus the saying "Only the man of virtue knows whom to love and whom to hate".

Edited July 6, 2013 by XieJia

[3bob]

the source can not be corrupted... but when relatively away from the source and spun out into the world(s) love can be twisted into hate, yet the return and its untwisting instances of hate frees up the love that was bound.

 

(even though the source never truly went anywhere nor was love ever truly bound)

Edited July 7, 2013 by 3bob

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Perhaps 'whom' could be interpreted not as another entity, but the person you yourself have the potential to be... we have the potential to be someone we should be ashamed of, or someone we should be proud (not as in arrogance) of.

 

Thus, the man of virtue knows how to skilfully handle his mind such that his good qualities blossom, and his negative qualities diminish, but without suppression or fighting against himself.

 

Remember the folk tale of the good and evil wolves fighting within you, the one that wins is the one you feed. The man of virtue feeds the good wolf, and doesn't try to fight the evil wolf directly and get bitten but just redirects it's force skilfully and lets it starve.

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

.... the use of the word 'only' in that sentence. Not sure if it is meant humorously..

 

 

we know of the depth of love and the depth of pain.. do we deny the depth of ignorance?

 

 

Ignorance is either very, very deep or not deep at all. In some way I suspect all ignorance to be deliberate.

[XieJia]

.... the use of the word 'only' in that sentence. Not sure if it is meant humorously..

 

 

we know of the depth of love and the depth of pain.. do we deny the depth of ignorance?

 

the strange thing about ignorance is when we stop denying it...

 

...it disappeared?!

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

From where would stem the deliberateness?

 

Not wanting to know the truth ... preferring to be stupid ... its easier.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

veil upon veil of egoic denial?

 

Well maybe but that makes it sound complicated and difficult. I think its more like when David Icke shouts 'wake up people open your eyes!' and people just sit there enjoying his talk. Its a wilful preference ... a stubborn-ness perhaps ...

[XieJia]

If only that were true. We admit one piece at a time, I guess, and wait for more to unravel.

 

You made me recall a story.

 

One sunny day, after hours of meditation practice.

A students walks out to the pavillion, there was sitting his master holding his warm tea cup gazing the moutians and the crops the villager have cultivated.

Seeing the student, the master asked

"How do you know that Greed, Hatred or Ignorance are not present in your mind?"

 

"Through being mindful at the moment, I know that Greed, Hatred or Ignorance are not currently not present in my mind."

the student replied.

 

Recalling what he heard about the Englightened masters, the student asked "Then how do the enlightened masters always have the mind and the dharma present to them without straying from the path?"

 

The master chuckled, slowly sipped his tea then asked "How do you know that in 7 days, 1 months or 3 years that Greed, Hatred or Ignorance would be present in your mind then?"

 

The student is puzzled, he exclaimed "How!? would someone know that about the future!"

 

Before the student could finish his sentence, the master smiled.

 

The student was silenced...

and then a bright smile broke out on his face and he answered:

 

"In 7 days, 1 months or 3 years; through being mindful with the moment, I know that Greed, Hatred or Ignorance are not currently not present in my mind."

 

The master chuckled, sipping his tea and looking over at the distances at the mountains and the crops the villagers have cultivated.

[3bob]

The chapter below may have some bearing here: (?)

 

T.T.C. 74.
When the people are no longer afraid of death,
Why scare them with the spectre of death?

If you could make the people always afraid of death,
And they still persisted in breaking the law,
Then you might with reason arrest and execute them,
And who would dare to break the law?

Is not the Great Executor always there to kill?
To do the killing for the Great Executor
Is to chop wood for a master carpenter,
And you would be lucky indeed if you did not hurt
your own hand!

 

 

 

 

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

Perhaps it is both what you say and what I said. Perhaps ignorance is energetic murk which entwines like ivy into us so that 'wake up' is met with torpid unconcern.

 

Perhaps the force, the alchemical agent called upon - Baphomet or Jesus or Avalokitesvara - is the agent that dissolves that which has coagulated.

 

Well, I would agree ... in that when we look with our ordinary minds its not possible to escape the murk because our ordinary minds are of the murk ... while Baphomet or Jesus or Avalokitesvara are from beyond the murk entirely ... or at least I can answer for Avalokiteshvara ... at least.

[三江源]

.

Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[Apech]

We have an ordinary mind. Do we have any other mind?

 

Well its a way of speaking I think. Ego vs. Buddha nature sort of thing. they are not-two really.

 

...I've lost the track ... what are we taling about?

[XieJia]

Yes. I am not sure, quite, of the extent of the purification gained by this technique of not holding something in your mind. Does it mean ignorance doesnt exist in your bodymind or your unconscious? Not quite, right, or else it would be easy to achieve rainbow body or status of ramana maharshi. There is more to it.

 

Why is not easy to become as ramana marishi, for example?

 

The student didn't gain enlightened that day, but he realized that much is to do with the present.

Though the technique is not quite "not holding something in the mind".

The thing is there is, while being mindful; the greed, hatred or ignorance that is present in your mind comes to an end.

There is no different between your mind and Ramana Marishi's.

 

The more to it is, most returns to their usual selves through familiarity/memories and karma

while for the Enlightened Masters, that mind is ever presented to them.