Karma

[林愛偉]

Edited April 15, 2007 by 林愛偉

[thelerner]

I'm working on the psychological step I from Franz Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics. He has you make a dark mirror. You write down all your bad habits and traits. You do it seriously til you have over a hundred. Then you categorize them into there elemental features. Then put the elemental lists into order of seriousness.

 

Step I is not a matter of problem solving. Its looking at your darker side closely. Seeing the deeper patterns, the triggers, where the emotions and thoughts come from. It takes a few weeks, then you do the same for a 'light' mirror. Things that are you at your best. In later steps you work on self correction, but only after deep contemplation of the mirrors.

 

I think this kind of work is absolutely neccessary. A modern interpretation in seeing karma, beyond the simplistic problem, fixit mode that only looks at and solves surface problems.

 

Michael

[dunbar]

Aiwei

 

what is your school's take on reincarnation? do you feel that taoist and buddhist beliefs about reincarnation are similar? Very insightful post.

 

Jim

[林愛偉]

Aiwei

 

what is your school's take on reincarnation? do you feel that taoist and buddhist beliefs about reincarnation are similar? Very insightful post.

 

Jim

 

 

Reincarnation is what it is. Any differences from either Daoist or Buddhist ideas would just be some small extras or whatnot. It is that we never die, and we never live. There is only a form which results in the thoughts of their being a life, a personality, a being and an ego.

 

Having new forms, reincarnating, is still due to one not able to end the cycle of birth and death. Unless one is a Buddha or a Bodhisattva, reincarnating is not a choice, but an inevitable outcome from past causes.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[Wayfarer64]

I just wanted to add this explanation that I also added to Sean's recent thread... It seems very pertinant to me right now...This is one way that our karma is changed...

 

Sadhana. In mediation when the mind is withdrawn, and the lower kosas are merged into the Supreme, then samskaras can ripen and be expressed when the sadhaka returns to normal consciousness. This is why life can have so many changes and ups and downs after starting meditation.

 

Namaste-Pat

[dunbar]

I just wanted to add this explanation that I also added to Sean's recent thread... It seems very pertinant to me right now...This is one way that our karma is changed...

 

Sadhana. In mediation when the mind is withdrawn, and the lower kosas are merged into the Supreme, then samskaras can ripen and be expressed when the sadhaka returns to normal consciousness. This is why life can have so many changes and ups and downs after starting meditation.

 

Namaste-Pat

Good answer. How many students do you and your wife have at your school in China. That's great that you are helping people get english teaching jobs. Can you talk a little about your school - costs, facilities, etc..

 

jim

[Wayfarer64]

Good answer. How many students do you and your wife have at your school in China. That's great that you are helping people get english teaching jobs. Can you talk a little about your school - costs, facilities, etc..

 

jim

 

YO Jim- Either you grabbed the wrong qoute or think I'm someone else-AiWei -perhaps...In any case please clarify what your going for here...

[dunbar]

the above question is for Aiwei, sorry.

 

jim

[fatherpaul]

the true meaning of karma is causeless action,

a complete action with no reaction.

 

reincarnation is real to those who believe in it, thats it.

[dunbar]

the true meaning of karma is causeless action,

a complete action with no reaction.

 

reincarnation is real to those who believe in it, thats it.

 

actually karma is he law of cause and effect - so I don't know were your getting that unless you are just making up ideas.

[fatherpaul]

actually karma is he law of cause and effect - so I don't know were your getting that unless you are just making up ideas.

 

as you wish

[thelerner]

the true meaning of karma is causeless action,

a complete action with no reaction.

 

 

I've been trying to wrap my mind around this. I believe the opposite of a great truth is another great truth. Still, karma as causeless action...

 

One aspect where I might see this is in children. Same family, same conditions, totally different personalities and traits. We look for why's and causality..but it just is. Accept initial conditions and move on.

 

Thats where I'm at w/ it now. Looking for causalities is just another mind game. Karma accepted is karma denied

 

Michael

[Wayfarer64]

This is an interesting thread. My 2 cents ...

Karma is the level of actual activity that takes place on the mundane plane of existence. It is the web of life and all of its interactions. These may be caused by or effecting other happenings that are related through space/time...

It is not by any means mindless, but it is basic & intrinsic to being - with or without intention, it is what happens on the physical planes of existence.

 

The Artha level is that of community/political interaction which I believe is also common in many other animal species - not just us human-beings.

 

And there is the Dharma -Where spirit exists on or with any and all other levels of being. It transcends all levels and is entwined amid all being and doing... But not all beings are aware of it. To be aware of it is the START of a spiritual life - usually built on compassion...Which then starts to transform one's karma through merit, practice, intent, being etc... It is all one thing in the Tao-which is the irony for me -

Where does free-will end and fate begin?

 

Do we each just get our just desserts?

 

Yum... or is that Yab-Yum?

Edited April 21, 2007 by Wayfarer64

[Taomeow]

One aspect where I might see this is in children. Same family, same conditions, totally different personalities and traits. We look for why's and causality..but it just is. Accept initial conditions and move on.

 

No, it's not the same conditions, ever. Birth is the greatest learning experience of a lifetime, and even twins (like my son and daughter) had different-conditions births. Since it's the first, and most important, life-and-death event that systemically teaches the whole person how to survive an extreme life-and-death stress, the very process that succeeded, whatever it was, will be imprinted as THE response to any future stressful events. In emergency, or in what is subjectively perceived as an emergency, the brain is designed to scan its own history for a solution, for a successful "been there done that, survived it this way, so this way is the way to do it again." (That's the reason people have "all their lives flash before their eyes" in an extreme life-threatening situation.) So whatever one's birth was like will be re-interpreted by "higher" consciousness later but the model, the blueprint, will remain intact, the rest will morph itself to this pattern. So no two children in the same family are ever "like that for no reason" -- there's always a reason.

 

Karma is reality's memory. And reality, no matter what else can be said about it, has never suffered from amnesia --

unlike proponents of assorted ideologies who seem to unconsciously believe they have started existing only at some later date, later than their birth, infancy, and early childhood... perhaps they were made already grown up and "a certain way for no reason" on some assembly line on Mars and launched to Earth in this condition? -- or else how can they possibly explain their flat refusal to seek answers to their assorted existential questions in their own developmental history?..

Edited April 21, 2007 by Taomeow

[goldisheavy]

actually karma is he law of cause and effect - so I don't know were your getting that unless you are just making up ideas.

 

Yes, you heard that's what it was, therefore that must be it. Looks like Paul took it a step further and actually contemplated it, so his mind didn't remain at the "this is what I've heard" stage.

[Pero]

Unless Paul is a totally realized being, he can`t truly fully understand karma, as can`t any of us. But according to teaching karma is law of cause and effect. If there is no cause, then there is no karma, since obviously there can`t be any effect. I don`t know if there is such a thing as causeless action, however it certainly isn`t karma.

[dunbar]

Yes, you heard that's what it was, therefore that must be it. Looks like Paul took it a step further and actually contemplated it, so his mind didn't remain at the "this is what I've heard" stage.

 

I didn't hear it and believe it and how would you know what I have and have not done? I studied the buddhas teaching and applied it and, further, experienced it. If you want to talk about karma, then know the meaning of the word. If you want to talk about causless action- come up with a different word. Dog doesn't mean cow, etc...

[林愛偉]

Good answer. How many students do you and your wife have at your school in China. That's great that you are helping people get english teaching jobs. Can you talk a little about your school - costs, facilities, etc..

 

jim

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

Our school isn't a usual school. There are training grounds, but they are not in a formal center. We train outside in parks, mountain sides or at temples. Various times given the schedules we may have while living here. Cost of classes are on donation. The cost for travelling to different temples and eating are the student's responsibility.

We do help one find a cheap hotel, under 15 U.S. dolars a night. The cheapest hotel I may find would be about

9 U.S. dollars. 3 meals a day can be eaten in my home.

My students are scattered throughout China and Europe, America, and South East Asia right now. Some have already come to China and spent time here studying with me, some are corresponding through emails until they come to China, or until I go travelling to them...eventually. We have Chinese students and foreign students.

 

Helping people find jobs is free. If you search the "off topic" section, you will find postings I left for teaching in China.

 

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

[Cameron]

From link

 

 

 

A famous meeting

 

Bodhidharma sailed to China in 521. When he disembarked at the port city of Canton, he was received with great ceremony by a local official, Shao Ang, who immediately reported Bodhidharma's arrival to Emperor Wu of the Liang dynasty. The emperor ordered the official to accompany the monk to the capital, Chienkang (now Nanking).

 

Emperor Wu was a devoted Buddhist who had spent a lot of money building temples and duplicating Buddhist scriptures, and he treated Buddhist monks with great reverence. Many government officials followed suit, but they were only playing up to the emperor in the hope of being promoted.

 

When the Emperor Wu met Bodhidharma, there transpired a now-famous conversation between the two. The emperor spoke to the monk very politely. "I have built many temples and translated the sutras into Chinese. I have also laid down the rules for people who want to join the ranks of monks or nuns. Furthermore, I have ruled my kingdom in accordance with the Buddha's teachings. Do I gain any merit from all this? Will I eventually become a buddha?"

 

Bodhidharma looked at him calmly and replied, "Your Majesty, you have no merit at all."

 

The emperor, displeased, asked him, "Why is that?"

 

Bodhidharma replied, "What Your Majesty has been doing belongs to the merit of Hinayana Buddhism, and you will never be truly freed from endless reincarnation."

 

Emperor Wu asked again, "Then what is real merit?"

 

Bodhidharma answered, "True merit comes from unselfish giving, spiritual cultivation, and dedication to the Buddha and to all living creatures. If Your Majesty can do all this, you will gain true merit."

 

The emperor was not happy with this reply or with the monk, and he started to doubt his true identity. In order to find out whether he was really who he claimed to be, Emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma, "What is the first sacred law of Buddhism?"

 

Bodhidharma replied, "There is no such law in Buddhism."

 

Emperor Wu asked very angrily, "Do you know who is standing before you?"

 

Bodhidharma replied, "No, I don't."

 

What was going on here? Was Bodhidharma out of his mind or was his head still spinning from seasickness after travelling from India to China by boat? No, it was nothing like that. Through their conversation, Bodhidharma knew that Emperor Wu was only interested in gaining merits and attaining buddhahood, but that he had no understanding of the essence of Buddhism. In the end, Bodhidharma left the palace and went north.

 

As he traveled, he kept hearing talk of Shaolin Temple in Henan Province. The temple had been founded in 496 in honor of an Indian monk named Brahdra, whom Emperor Hsiao Wen of the Northern Wei dynasty had invited to China to preach Buddhism. Bodhidharma had known Brahdra in India, so he decided to go to his temple. Brahdra was delighted to see an old friend and told his students to take good care of him. Bodhidharma meditated before a huge rock in a cave for nine years, in order to find the next patriarch of the Chan sect.

 

It was the beginning of winter when a monk named Shen Kuang (487-593) came to Shaolin Temple. He sincerely told Bodhidharma that he had been searching for a wise teacher to enlighten him, but the old monk seemed to ignore his plea. Shen Kuang thought to himself that the journey to enlightenment was often full of danger, so how could he leave simply because this great monk ignored him? He decided to stand outside Bodhidharma's door to show his resolve.

 

It snowed that night. The snow covered Shen Kuang's feet, but he just stood there. Eventually the snow piled up to his waist. However, he simply stood there and quietly recited Buddhist scriptures. Bodhidharma had in fact seen Shen Kuang, but he was not sure whether the young man was just another curious visitor. Seeing Shen Kuang standing there in the snow, Bodhidharma was touched and asked, "Aren't you cold?"

 

Shen Kuang was a bit surprised to hear Bodhidharma speak to him, but he answered politely, "No, I am not. I am here to learn from you, Master."

 

Bodhidharma then asked him, "What do you want to learn?"

 

Shen Kuang replied, "I want to learn the great compassionate spirit of Buddhism so that I can help the suffering people in the world!"

 

Bodhidharma tested him by saying, "Well, your vow is very lofty, but I am not sure if you can keep it. You should go do something else, or you'll be wasting your time and mine."

 

Shen Kuang firmly believed he could achieve his goal, so he went back to the temple kitchen, took out a knife, and returned to the cave. There he suddenly chopped off his left hand and placed it before Bodhidharma. The old monk then fully realized how sincere the young monk really was. "You are willing to cut off your hand to show your sincerity and determination. This shows that you can comprehend the Buddha's teachings. Now I will rename you Hui Ko."

 

Hui Ko then applied snow to his wound and wrapped up his injured hand with a piece of his clothing. He then asked Bodhidharma to bring tranquility to his mind. Bodhidharma said to him, "Take out your mind."

 

Hui Ko realized then that after studying Buddhism for so many years, he still had not comprehended the true meaning of "mind" and did not know where to find it.

 

At that moment, Bodhidharma shouted at him, "Hui Ko!"

 

Hui Ko was stunned, but his mind suddenly became completely tranquil. Bodhidharma said to him, "I have brought tranquility to your mind."

 

At this, Hui Ko was enlightened and began a new life. News of Hui Ko's enlightenment spread, and many monks came to Shaolin Temple to ask Bodhidharma to accept them as his students.

[fatherpaul]

when the action, actor and activity are one

 

not being directed by ideas

 

this is causeless action with no reaction

 

 

i understand this to be the true meaning of the original sanskrit word for karma

perhaps i am mistaken

[Pero]

when the action, actor and activity are one

 

not being directed by ideas

 

this is causeless action with no reaction

i understand this to be the true meaning of the original sanskrit word for karma

perhaps i am mistaken

 

Well, I`m no sanskrit expert, so I can`t really know what is original meaning of the word karma.

But many others are, and I don`t think they would agree with you (I guess).

 

To me, what you are saying, sounds more like something non dual, which karma isn`t (and is maybe, but it isn`t).

 

Oh wait, I just remembered something...

 

EDIT (couldn`t make new reply):

Ok. So, in Sanskrit there is the word karma, but it can mean two things. First is the usual karma we think of, and then there is the karma of enlightened beings, which you may be referring to. The word for both is the same in Sanskrit, whereas in Tibetan, they have two words (le and trinle).

Edited April 22, 2007 by Pero