Chogyal Namkhai Norbu - Direct Introduction soon.

[Jeff]

The transmission given this time around is a direct introduction to your own state.The principle of the transimssion is to introduce the individual to their own state so that they can discover it for themselves.

If you can't discover it at the time of introduction(wich is the case for 90% of us) there are methods wich you can apply on your own in your own time until you discover it.

 

The present transmission doesnt transfer any keys but allows you to practice the methods mainly related to the discovery of your nature the rushens or the various types of guru yoga.

If you want to practice the various deities, trulkor you need the specific transmission of those deities with their mantras and so on...

Hi Anderson,

 

Thank you for your response. I am just trying to compare the transmission to other primordial traditions. Would it be fair to say the transmission shares a state of "true presence" and one either notices it or not at the time?

[Jeff]

Its not a kundalini transmission, it has more to do with mind and the nature of mind than with shakti. Yes have experienced shaktipat ( and 1 on 1 direct introduction though not in the context of the 4th abhisheka.) At any rate I am speaking from my own experience.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. So rather than a "body energy" sort of thing, would you say that it is transmission sort of "showing clarity of mind"?

[RongzomFan]

Hi Anderson,

 

Thank you for your response. I am just trying to compare the transmission to other primordial traditions. Would it be fair to say the transmission shares a state of "true presence" and one either notices it or not at the time?

 

Its just an initiation.

 

You are not expected to recognize anything.

 

You just have to participate to the best of your abilities.

[konchog uma]

You'll have to get the transmission and compare for yourself. I think you are constantly trying to intellectualize about what is essentially beyond concepts and based in practice and experience, I don't want to feed that by telling you anything no offense I'm just not going to get into these conversations with you.

Edited July 12, 2013 by konchog uma

[Creation]

I'll be attending.

 

There will be free teleconference class explaining the particular guru yoga to be utilized on the anniversary of Padmasambhava. Details here:

http://tsegyalgar.org/theteachings/webcastcalendar/wwt/

 

 

Is is worth getting the transmission if you aren't a sworn Buddhist?

I have heard many reports that Rinpoche said you can belong to any religion and practice Dzogchen. So I'd say, definitely yes.

[Simple_Jack]

Whats wrong with God?

 

Its just a fictitious entity like Count Chocula.

 

 

That's hilarious.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. So rather than a "body energy" sort of thing, would you say that it is transmission sort of "showing clarity of mind"?

 

Just attend the transmission and you'll figure it out from there.

[Simple_Jack]

Its a prerequisite initiation. There is no shaktipat in Buddhism.

 

I shouldn't have used the word "shaktipat", since this has a specific definition and meaning within those respective traditions.

[Simple_Jack]

 

I have heard many reports that Rinpoche said you can belong to any religion and practice Dzogchen. So I'd say, definitely yes.

 

Does that include Scientology? I've identified with Scientology ever since I heard that Tom Cruise was a part of this.

[Anderson]

Hi Anderson,

 

Thank you for your response. I am just trying to compare the transmission to other primordial traditions. Would it be fair to say the transmission shares a state of "true presence" and one either notices it or not at the time?

 

Yes, it is spoken of an "instant presence".

However i wouldnt know if this is similar to what is important in the nondual traditions of advaita or other such traditions.

 

What you are introduced to during this transmission is this instant presence or primordial state and if you discover it you will have knowledge of it.That knowledge is callled rigpa.All you have to do from there onwards is to rest in the knowledge of your primordial state.

[Anderson]

I'm pretty sure the general transmission gives permission for trul khor. You just need to watch the DVD's.

 

That's right.

My mistake.....

[Jeff]

Yes, it is spoken of an "instant presence". However i wouldnt know if this is similar to what is important in the nondual traditions of advaita or other such traditions. What you are introduced to during this transmission is this instant presence or primordial state and if you discover it you will have knowledge of it.That knowledge is callled rigpa.All you have to do from there onwards is to rest in the knowledge of your primordial state.

 

Thanks, your answer was very helpful. I would agree that it is not the same or comparable to nondual advaita traditions. They do not have the similar concept of "transmission of a state of knowledge" or "sharing presence". I was comparing to other primordial (Dzogchen like) traditions. In things like gnostic Christianity it is often called things like the "Thunder path".

[Jeff]

You'll have to get the transmission and compare for yourself. I think you are constantly trying to intellectualize about what is essentially beyond concepts and based in practice and experience, I don't want to feed that by telling you anything no offense I'm just not going to get into these conversations with you.

 

I was trying to compare the underlying "transmission" of respective (Dzogchen-like) traditions, but no problem. Thanks for responding, I appreciate the thought behind it.

 

Have a good weekend.

[Jeff]

Just attend the transmission and you'll figure it out from there.

 

Fair enough.

[Ish]

You mean www transmission on the 18th?

 

Just wanted to be clear, as a "world wide transmission" could mean something very different.

 

It is the "world wide transmission" in the sense that its available all over the world .

 

 

But to get the benefit you have to participate so unfortunately not a 7billion person transmission

Edited July 12, 2013 by Ish

[RongzomFan]

(Dzogchen-like) traditions

 

There is no such thing. Dzogchen is different than even Mahamudra.

[konchog uma]

I was trying to compare the underlying "transmission" of respective (Dzogchen-like) traditions, but no problem. Thanks for responding, I appreciate the thought behind it.

 

Have a good weekend.

 

i understand the question. I even respect, to a point, the intention behind it. But all the paths you are trying to compare involve cutting through the veil of constant discursive thoughts and opening ones experience to direct connection with the present moment The freshness of that experience is, in my experience, dulled by trying to grasp it with the intellectual mind. The problem with the intellectual approach is: once you think you know something about something (like nonconceptual practice) the inquisitive nature of your mind is muted, and you think "oh i know this" instead of resting in appreciation for that fact that there is nothing to know intellectually (see the quote at the end of my posts).

 

All the philosophy in the world is useless IMO unless it is the basis of a practice which propels one beyond the confines of philosophy. So really, no offense, i just would rather you got the transmission and practiced for yourself than try to verbalize a bunch of concepts and nonsense which are just going to impede your realization of a state that is nonconceptual, and dull your natural inquisitiveness with the delusion that you actually know anything definative.

[Jeff]

i understand the question. I even respect, to a point, the intention behind it. But all the paths you are trying to compare involve cutting through the veil of constant discursive thoughts and opening ones experience to direct connection with the present moment The freshness of that experience is, in my experience, dulled by trying to grasp it with the intellectual mind. The problem with the intellectual approach is: once you think you know something about something (like nonconceptual practice) the inquisitive nature of your mind is muted, and you think "oh i know this" instead of resting in appreciation for that fact that there is nothing to know intellectually (see the quote at the end of my posts).

 

All the philosophy in the world is useless IMO unless it is the basis of a practice which propels one beyond the confines of philosophy. So really, no offense, i just would rather you got the transmission and practiced for yourself than try to verbalize a bunch of concepts and nonsense which are just going to impede your realization of a state that is nonconceptual, and dull your natural inquisitiveness with the delusion that you actually know anything definative.

 

Hi knonchog uma,

 

I agree in general with your comments regarding philosophy and intellectualization. I am sorry that you consider my questions "nonsense", but am not interested (or trying to compare) the philosophy at all. My questions are about the "experiential reality" and the transmission/teaching techniques of the Dzogchen tradition. I have my own direct experience with what I consider to be similar/parallel paths. I was just looking for the qualitative feeling/description of initiates for comparison.

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

[konchog uma]

K'u -- just curious... You make these suggestions to Jeff...is this based upon your assumption that he has not yet realized his original nature...?

 

no. Its just in response to the line of questioning. I can never tell what anyone has realized.

[konchog uma]

Hi knonchog uma,

 

I agree in general with your comments regarding philosophy and intellectualization. I am sorry that you consider my questions "nonsense", but am not interested (or trying to compare) the philosophy at all. My questions are about the "experiential reality" and the transmission/teaching techniques of the Dzogchen tradition. I have my own direct experience with what I consider to be similar/parallel paths. I was just looking for the qualitative feeling/description of initiates for comparison.

 

Best wishes,

Jeff

 

i didn't call your questions nonsense. i said that what i would say to you would be nonsense.

 

best luck w your practice.

[konchog uma]

from a certain pov, all words are nonsense, and every time nonconceptual practice comes up, i have observed jeff to take the approach of asking many questions which basically boil down to "so would you conceptualize it like This, or perhaps like That" and so on. I feel that grasping some kind of answer as truth will only get in the way of practice, in that it is fabricated by the intellect.

 

That is what i am trying to offer. Not judgement of what anyone has realized, or trying to shut down the whole conversation at all, just not taking part in it myself as an expression of what i think is most helpful to realization : stopping the comparison, nominalization, and dualistic distinctions of the intellect, and just letting go and doing it.

[Simple_Jack]

from a certain pov, all words are nonsense, and every time nonconceptual practice comes up, i have observed jeff to take the approach of asking many questions which basically boil down to "so would you conceptualize it like This, or perhaps like That" and so on. I feel that grasping some kind of answer as truth will only get in the way of practice, in that it is fabricated by the intellect.

 

That is what i am trying to offer. Not judgement of what anyone has realized, or trying to shut down the whole conversation at all, just not taking part in it myself as an expression of what i think is most helpful to realization : stopping the comparison, nominalization, and dualistic distinctions of the intellect, and just letting go and doing it.

 

I don't appreciate your condescending tone in this post. I'm reporting you to the MODS.

 

[RongzomFan]

nevermind

Edited July 12, 2013 by alwayson

[Anderson]

If you receive transmission and don't discover what you are supposed to discover, ask someone to slap you unexpectedly when you go about your bussiness the usual way.

 

I'm not suggesting that you are in need of a slap.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Anderson

[rex]

If anyone can get to the UK this October then they can also see Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche in person:

 

http://www.dzogchencommunityuk.org/activities-events/events-calendar/chnn-london-retreat-2013.html

 

 

 

 

[Jeff]

from a certain pov, all words are nonsense, and every time nonconceptual practice comes up, i have observed jeff to take the approach of asking many questions which basically boil down to "so would you conceptualize it like This, or perhaps like That" and so on. I feel that grasping some kind of answer as truth will only get in the way of practice, in that it is fabricated by the intellect.

 

That is what i am trying to offer. Not judgement of what anyone has realized, or trying to shut down the whole conversation at all, just not taking part in it myself as an expression of what i think is most helpful to realization : stopping the comparison, nominalization, and dualistic distinctions of the intellect, and just letting go and doing it.

No problem. I understand (and appreciate) your thought that I am "grasping [at] some kind of answer" and that "rather than shut down the whole conversation", you are only trying to "stop the comparison" and stopping what you believe is "nominalization, and dualistic distinctions...".

 

Like you, I am a huge fan of "just letting go and doing it", but I find it useful when people share perspective. Hopefully, some of the readers of these threads will also come to understand that things like transmissions are "real".

 

Have a great weekend. Thanks for the discussion.