Jesus was a Tao Bum

[ion]

Although the religions themselves have very different messages, I think it is interesting how the tao can be observed in religious concepts/axioms, but most interesting is that it seems to me, that two of the worlds biggest religious icons followed Tao, and taught it.

 

Neither was religious; if anything they taught against religion because what they taught gave people independence from religion, a form of self salvation. I'm talking about Jesus & Buddha.

 

Both people, if you look at their lives and how they dealt with everything, seemed to walk with the tao and I believe the messages they gave basiclly expounded on fallowing tao and taught it as a life style.

 

Jesus was a leader. When he was crucified they made a spectical and mockery of the fact that people were calling him the king of Jews, but he definitely didn't seize power, or coerce anyone into givving him power. He gained influence over people maybe by performing miracles or having deep wisdom, but a big part of it was his lowly humble demeanor.

 

I know the popular belief is that he was a carpentar, a polished and refined craftsmen but actually the aramic word which is what the gospels were originaly written in say he was a hadok or madok or something like that, I dont remember but it translates into someone who works with their hands, so more like a laborer then a craftsman.

 

He lived in humility and washed the feet of his disciples, and his last commandment to his disciples is that they do the same for each other, to serve each other.

 

He taught that the lowly will be exaulted and the high brought down low, to love your brother/neighbor as you love yourself, and to do unto others as youd have them do unto you.

 

Buddha was also made a leader. He inherited a royal title yet renounced it and left a fortune and high position to perform a service for mankind. This in a time after becomming enlightened, he livved as a beggar and never gained wealth, he stayed a beggar til his death and to his culture at the time, he was considered a baggar factory, convincing people to leave house and householding for homeless life. This in a time and place when beggars were considered the lowest caste in their spiritual strata. If you were a beggar, you were considered spiritualy deficit and that you deserved to serve out your karma as a beggar til death, and likewise that if you were wealthy and powerful, then you were spiritualy evolved and deserved to keep your power and exploit the wealth. Yet buddha followed tao to, and dwelt in humility in that lowly place. Also anyone with wealth and power would have to "lower" themselves to seek wisdom from Buddha, because to go to a beggar for spiritual advice would be humiliating and humbling.

 

Personally, I see that at least in some of the buddhist text and schools, particularly zen the message is the same, or that they are continuations of eachother. Appearently Im not alone in that, there are buddhist temples in China that sport the tai chi symbol, and also taoist temples with statues of buddha.

 

I believe that if you follow tao with sincere devotion, make a life of it that you will be also practicing manythings from buddhist philosophy even if indirectly and that the advances made in buddhism, serve as advances made for the follower of tao. My personal preference is for tao, I see all the things that I see anywhere in the TTC, but much more eloquently simple and compact, but in the same way that if a person followed tao just a little way before getting caught up on an idea, they might go join the military to serve their fellow country man, I believe that if a person followed itmuch further, they would find themselves in a position like buddha was, where they renounce it all, what ever it is, enter into homelessness for a life of searching out the cure to end suffering for everyone, to bring harmony into everyones lives and relationships.

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Great Jesus fits everywhere

 

 

 

[RongzomFan]

Buddha was also made a leader. He inherited a royal title yet renounced it and left a fortune and high position to perform a service for mankind. This in a time after becomming enlightened, he livved as a beggar and never gained wealth, he stayed a beggar til his death and to his culture at the time, he was considered a baggar factory, convincing people to leave house and householding for homeless life. This in a time and place when beggars were considered the lowest caste in their spiritual strata. If you were a beggar, you were considered spiritualy deficit and that you deserved to serve out your karma as a beggar til death, and likewise that if you were wealthy and powerful, then you were spiritualy evolved and deserved to keep your power and exploit the wealth. Yet buddha followed tao to, and dwelt in humility in that lowly place. Also anyone with wealth and power would have to "lower" themselves to seek wisdom from Buddha, because to go to a beggar for spiritual advice would be humiliating and humbling.

 

 

Buddha was a Sramana, not a beggar.

Edited July 13, 2013 by alwayson

[rene]

Although the religions themselves have very different messages, I think it is interesting how the tao can be observed in religious concepts/axioms, but most interesting is that it seems to me, that two of the worlds biggest religious icons followed Tao, and taught it.

 

Neither was religious; if anything they taught against religion because what they taught gave people independence from religion, a form of self salvation. I'm talking about Jesus & Buddha.

 

ion, hi, nice post and I agree. There might be one more name you can add to those two: LaoTzu.

 

The same thing happened downstream from LaoTzu (Taoism), that happened to Jesus (Christianity) and Buddha (Buddhism).

 

 

warm regards

[林愛偉]

 

ion, hi, nice post and I agree. There might be one more name you can add to those two: LaoTzu.

 

The same thing happened downstream from LaoTzu (Taoism), that happened to Jesus (Christianity) and Buddha (Buddhism).

 

 

warm regards

 

Buddha was before Lao Zi. 1000yrs before 67 A.D., the Buddha's, manifestation, teachings and his entering Nirvana were predicted to come to China. Check the The Scripture in 42 Sections with Commentary by Master Xuan Hua. Then research historical records.

[Marblehead]

Neither was religious; if anything they taught against religion because what they taught gave people independence from religion, a form of self salvation. I'm talking about Jesus & Buddha.

Did you know that both these gentlemen were students of Lao Tzu?

[Marblehead]

 

Buddha was before Lao Zi. 1000yrs before 67 A.D., the Buddha's, manifestation, teachings and his entering Nirvana were predicted to come to China. Check the The Scripture in 42 Sections with Commentary by Master Xuan Hua. Then research historical records.

I think you might want to recheck your referrences. (Not the myths, the facts as far as they are properly known.)

[Jainarayan]

Some people say that quoting the Rig Veda verse "Truth is One, though the Sages know it by many names" (Ekam Sat Viprāha Bahudhā Vadanti) is a misapplication of the original verse. But I don't think so, because history has shown it to be true time and again. We're observing it now in this thread, 5,000 years after it was written. Truth is universal, and there have been, and will be, those wise enough to know it, see it, and apply it: Jesus; Buddha; Lao Tzu; and I daresay Rama and Krishna, both of whom taught and performed duty to be in harmony with the natural order, rather than "religion". Who knows who else may come?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Jainarayan

[林愛偉]

I think you might want to recheck your referrences. (Not the myths, the facts as far as they are properly known.)

 

Also, there were a few other Buddhas on this planet before Shakyamuni Buddha. i don't doubt my resource, but others may. I did at one point doubt my resource, and then I didn't afterwards.

 

And besides, it really doesn't matter who came first, what matters is who realizes enlightenment, and gets off the cycle of rebirth.

 

：-） A lot of "properly known facts" are only set to be that way because of the passing of time, and lots of people with degrees. I rather find out through cultivation, and those who have realized enlightenment, who also cultivate both Buddhist and Daoist methods.

Edited July 13, 2013 by 林愛偉

[Marblehead]

Nice response. And you didn't even give me anything to argue against. Hehehe. Yes, you must hold to your beliefs as long as they serve you positively. (But don't expect me to accept as truth everything you say. Hehehe.)

[ion]

I've heard that the religion buddhism says there were other buddhas before buddha, but I am refering to the historical buddha. Im sure there were others, but they weren't known or refered to as as buddha. Maybe Lao Tzu was one of them, I dunno but the teachings that the religion is founded originated with Prince Siddartha Guatama.

 

Historically, Guatama Buddha was around 1 or 2 hundred after Lao Tzu and I tend to agree because it seems more like Guatama was influenced by Lao Tzu then the inverse, but I wouldn't fight to the death over it.

 

It'd be interesting to hear your sources info.

 

 

Did you know that both these gentlemen were students of Lao Tzu?

Marblehead- could you elaborate on that please?

 

He was most certainly looked upun as a beggar. Even when he gained notiriety it is written everywhere that every day he wentout with his beggar bowl.

 

Prior to his enlightenment he followed every spiritual path available, starting with astecism and wandering if that is what you are refering to, but he was not a part of any religious sect whatsoever, he had renounced them all and to everyone around him, all the people that came to him, he was a beggar and a beggar factory.

[thelerner]

he was a beggar and a beggar factory.

I think the context and method of such begging is different then and how its currently done in monastic areas then here.

How would people characterize such begging? It may be more religious dues paid in food then the dynamic of panhandling here in the west.

 

It'd be interesting to hear from people on both sides of the rice bowl.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead- could you elaborate on that please?

Yes, I will elaborate. It was a joke. However, it's still a neat thought for a follower of Lao Tzu.

 

There is a slight possibility that it could be true though. There were already exchanges between China and India during Lao Tzu's time and there were exchanges between the Indians and the Arabs during that time as well. And Jesus did go into the desert for 40 days, perhaps visiting some place along the trading routes where he heard of the philosohpy.

[rene]

Yes, I will elaborate. It was a joke. However, it's still a neat thought for a follower of Lao Tzu.

 

There is a slight possibility that it could be true though. There were already exchanges between China and India during Lao Tzu's time and there were exchanges between the Indians and the Arabs during that time as well. And Jesus did go into the desert for 40 days, perhaps visiting some place along the trading routes where he heard of the philosohpy.

 

It's a fun idea to play around with, for sure!

 

What might be more likely is that they all followed the same thing, saw the same source, and 'translated' it as best they could into the nomenclature of their own peoples and times.

 

They didn't teach each other - they all had the same teacher.

 

[Marblehead]

What might be more likely is that they all followed the same thing, saw the same source, and 'translated' it as best they could into the nomenclature of their own peoples and times.

 

They didn't teach each other - they all had the same teacher.

How boring! Hehehe.

[rene]

How boring! Hehehe.

 

[Jainarayan]

 

I've heard that the religion buddhism says there were other buddhas before buddha

 

Yes, and will be again. It's also said (I'd have to dig into what schools and sects) that Shakyamuni Buddha has actually appeared over and over and over again through the eons to bring the Dharma. And there is yet to come Maitreya, the next buddha. Fwiw, I believe it as I'll show in the next paragraph:

 

Maybe not so incidentally, Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita that whenever there is a decline in righteousness and an increase in unrighteousness he (Krishna) takes birth to set things aright. He goes on to say that he and Arjuna (and we by extension) have passed through many births; we do not remember them but Krishna does.

 

Of course, this is not to turn this into a Hinduism thread (I almost got my weenie slapped at another site for venturing dangerously close to comparative religion), but to point out similarities, which I think go full circle to original post. Same teachings and truths, different times and names.

 

There was an episode of Star Trek (original series) Requiem For Methuselah wherein the character re-appears throughout history as different personages, giving us arts, literature, science, technology.

 

Personally I think the idea of the same being, whether religious or not, fictional or historic re-appearing at different times and places is really quite trippy and worth thinking about. On a hot and humid Saturday evening in NJ, only the gods know what the brain can come up with.

[Andrei]

 

 

Edited July 13, 2013 by steam

[Stosh]

I find it a trippy thought to consider all of us as reincarnations of the same individual. (Include beasties for extra spice) you me narveen my cat a barnacle buddha Bo Derek....

[Jainarayan]

I find it a trippy thought to consider all of us as reincarnations of the same individual. (Include beasties for extra spice) you me narveen my cat a barnacle buddha Bo Derek....

 

Well in a way we are if one accepts that there is only One. But that too is treading dangerously close to Vedanta, which gives me a headache like the Jackhammer of Satan®. I'm along for the ride and am happy to let God (whatever He, She or It is) sort it out and surprise me when (if?) I get there.

[RongzomFan]

Columbia PhD in Ancient History, Richard Carrier, says that Jesus never existed.

[ion]

I believe the roman catholic church (w/ the help of the self appointed apostle Paul), reinvented Jesus but didn't invent him.

 

I've heard of the prophecy of Maitreya, it's believed he or she is going to be a westerner which makes sense to me because as a society we are so greedy, egotistical and materielistic etc etc.

 

Maitreya is also a good example, (not to go off topic) of how the universal teaching points away from love as an egotistical love/personal relationship. Its said that there will be no more families because everyone will be like brothers (in the ideological sense that brothers are close and love eachother/trust).

 

I think that buddha and jesus probably both heard about a guy in China and a little about his philosophy. I would think that in his years long travels and wanderings amongst the different sects and practices that buddha caught wind of Lao Tzu. Probably more so Jesus, who probably also heard about Buddha, but I dont't think either of them followed any path or ideology. Buddha as I mentioned earlier tried all sorts of stuff and rejected them all as futile means.

 

Word probably traveled a little slower in such a short time frame, (1 or 2 hundred years), between Lao Tzu and Buddha, but Jesus was Livving in the Roman Empire, and it is known that the Essene community which was near by, and maybe his dad had involvement in did study all the known religious texts, buddhist text included, and knowledge of his teachings had most certainly reached jesus, even meditation practice.

 

His 40 days was spent in the wilderness, probably in solitude. I imagine it was not too dissimilar to buddhas meditation under the tree. The description of the temptation from satan fits my understanding of what happens when the self is faced off with in deep meditive states that are attended to from a place of purpose.

 

As it is well known by both schools, one cannot cross over for the self and if any of the awarenesses or senses give themselves slighty to the subtle temptations or thoughts to experience, then one is attempting to attain enlightonment for the self. Even the bible says-"woa to the one who tries to enter the kingdom but through the fold" and that is an indication that one cannot attain enlightonment if it is not for the sake of the people.

 

In regaurds to them "hearing" about Lao Tzu, there is the question of where the hell was jesus from 12 ish to 30 or whatever...I think maybe Egypt was a likely place where he probably learned good work skills, but was also brought there because of his noted genius in the area of spirituality. All the rabbis marveled at his knowledge and his questions... in Egypt he would've had acsess to anything written down about anything of a metaphysical nature.

[rene]

Columbia PhD in Ancient History, Richard Carrier, says that Jesus never existed.

 

That's okay. Jesus never said that Columbia PhD in Ancient History, Richard Carrier existed either.

[Tibetan_Ice]

We are all beggars.

 

We hold out our beggar bowls

Hoping to have them filled

With attention, recognition,

Just the right practice,

The correct understanding,

Spiritual understanding,

An end to suffering,

An awakened heart.

 

Some of our begging bowls are bigger than others'.

Sometimes we don't hold the bowl out long enough.

And sometimes there are holes in the bottoms of the bowls.

 

"At the moment of kindness, emptiness arises nakedly." -

The Aspiration of Mahamudra

 

 

Edited July 13, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat