Time to reset the clock

[RongzomFan]

I could say the same about you...that was just one website....there are more people who believe my way than yours, and more eminent Indian scholars who go along with those beliefs.

 

you got nothing

[Songtsan]

.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Songtsan

[RongzomFan]

I just realized the reason that so many people dislike you here. There is a reason people call you 'Alwaysoff'

 

One person call me that. And he is just as unknowledgeable about Buddhism as you are.

[RongzomFan]

I guess Songstan admits he just another Tibetan Ice.

 

My work here is done.

[Songtsan]

One person call me that. And he is just as unknowledgeable about Buddhism as you are.

 

I'm done. Have a good evening. You seem to be just an instigator. I kindly request that you not post in my threads anymore.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Songtsan

[RongzomFan]

Citing a Christian New Ager, like Tibetan Ice, is yet another failure on your part.

Edited July 15, 2013 by alwayson

[Songtsan]

Citing a Christian New Ager, like Tibetan Ice, is yet another failure on your part.

 

Exactly what vows have you taken as Buddhist?

 

Any of these ones? Because if so you just broke them:

 

A disciple of the Buddha shall not praise himself and speak ill of others, or encourage others to do so. He must not create the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of praising himself and disparaging others. As a disciple of the Buddha, he should be willing to stand in for all sentient beings and endure humiliation and slander -- accepting blame and letting sentient beings have all the glory. If instead, he displays his own virtues and conceals the good points of others, thus causing them to suffer slander, he commits a Parajika offense.

 

A disciple of the Buddha shall not harbor anger or encourage others to be angry. He should not create the causes, conditions, methods, or karma of anger. As a disciple of the Buddha, he ought to be compassionate and filial, helping all sentient beings develop the good roots of non-contention. If instead, he insults and abuses sentient beings, or even transformation beings [such as deities and spirits], with harsh words, hitting them with his fists or feet, or attacking them with a knife or club -- or harbors grudges even when the victim confesses his mistakes and humbly seeks forgiveness in a soft, conciliatory voice -- the disciple commits a Parajika offense.

 

Aware of the suffering caused by unmindful speech and the inability to listen to others, I vow to cultivate loving speech and deep listening in order to bring joy and happiness to others and relieve others of their suffering. Knowing that words can create happiness or suffering, I vow to learn to speak truthfully, with words that inspire self-confidence, joy, and hope. I am determined not to spread news that I do not know to be certain and not to criticize or condemn things of which I am not sure. I will refrain from uttering words that can cause division or discord, or that can cause the family or the community to break. I will make all efforts to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

 

Aware of the suffering created by fanaticism and intolerance, we are determined not to be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. We are committed to seeing the Buddhist teachings as guiding means that help us develop our understanding and compassion. They are not doctrines to fight, kill, or die for. We understand that fanaticism in its many forms is the result of perceiving things in a dualistic and discriminative manner. We will train ourselves to look at everything with openness and the insight of interbeing in order to transform dogmatism and violence in ourselves and in the world.

 

Aware of the suffering created by attachment to views and wrong perceptions, we are determined to avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. We are committed to learning and practicing non-attachment to views and being open to others’ experiences and insights in order to benefit from the collective wisdom. We are aware that the knowledge we presently possess is not changeless, absolute truth. Insight is revealed through the practice of compassionate listening, deep looking, and letting go of notions rather than through the accumulation of intellectual knowledge. Truth is found in life, and we will observe life within and around us in every moment, ready to learn throughout our lives.

 

Aware of the suffering brought about when we impose our views on others, we are determined not to force others, even our children, by any means whatsoever – such as authority, threat, money, propaganda, or indoctrination – to adopt our views. We are committed to respecting the right of others to be different, to choose what to believe and how to decide. We will, however, learn to help others let go of and transform fanaticism and narrowness through loving speech and compassionate dialogue.

 

We are determined to learn to listen deeply without judging or reacting and refrain from uttering words that can create discord or cause the community to break. Whenever difficulties arise, we will remain in our Sangha and practice looking deeply into ourselves and others to recognize all the causes and conditions, including our own habit energies, that have brought about the difficulties. We will take responsibility for the ways we may have contributed to the conflict and keep communication open. We will not behave as a victim but be active in finding ways to reconcile and resolve all conflicts however small.

[Songtsan]

Damn it! I cant get away from you. I like to argue too much. I must quit, because it is, as I have stated, not worthwhile for me. I hope you are just messing with me, and are not also trapped by such a negative addiction....

[RongzomFan]

Damn it! I cant get away from you. I like to argue too much. I must quit, because it is, as I have stated, not worthwhile for me. I hope you are just messing with me, and are not also trapped by such a negative addiction....

 

You see it that way. I'm just pointing out your ignorance.

[Songtsan]

You see it that way. I'm just pointing out your ignorance.

 

I think you are ignorant, you think I am. Isn't this just dandy? Let's continue on and on until the sun comes up. Let's cherish our own opinions! Let's compare books we have read and assume that those people who wrote them knew more about reality than us, just because they had some letters after their names! You get my drift? This really is a waste of time....dont you have anything better to do? Are you trying to proselytize me? Am I trying to proselytize you? Yes to both. Shall we then become Jehovah's Witnesses for Buddha?

[RongzomFan]

I think you are ignorant, you think I am. Isn't this just dandy?

 

How am I ignorant? Lay it all out.

[Songtsan]

I'd prefer not to...I don't know you. To judge you would simply be a thought construct in my head, judging another thought construct in my head (my version of you, which is built on flimsy information)...then when I type my uninformed judgments of you, and you read them, more is lost in translations, equivalent to what happened to me, but in your head. There is a reason I went back and edited a few posts. It is an illusion. Why lie to myself? Why are you lying to yourself? Don't ever think you know anyone...that is my advice to you. It is more truer than ever thinking that you do know someone.

[RongzomFan]

You already judged me as ignorant.

 

I just want to know why.

[RongzomFan]

Its good you understand the conceptualizing mind. That doesn't make you a Mahasiddha though.

[RongzomFan]

Usually though I stick with scholars from the country in question, ones who grew up in that culture, and are at least a few dozen years old to boot, and then I try to find the best translations

 

I could say the same about you...that was just one website....there are more people who believe my way than yours, and more eminent Indian scholars who go along with those beliefs. .

 

 

I am Indian raised Hindu and am familiar with the academic controversies revealed in "Invading the Sacred" and "Breaking India".

Edited July 15, 2013 by alwayson

[Songtsan]

You already judged me as ignorant.

 

I just want to know why.

 

Damn I wrote this nice reply and my internet dropped and i had to reset.

 

OK - everyone is ignorant of many things. Knowledge is transitory. I used to believe in the Easter Bunny but now I don't. I used to be atheist, but now I am not. Enlightenment does not equal omniscience. The Buddha couldn't cure smallpox, or design an airplane - my educated opinion. There is always room for improvement. If there wasn't - we would all be frozen in time. This is why I am non-traditionalist. I imagine you have read more Budhhist material than me, as you hold strictly to that path it seems. I don't know you though. I have probably read about a thousand books on Buddhist philosophy. Some of my favorite authors are Thanissaro Bikkhu, the Dalai Lama, Lama Yeshe, and many others...I think I am fairly well versed in the basics. I am only arguing the basics here - I do not get into advanced Buddhist discussions because I am not a specialist. I believe in my views on Tantra though, as I have researched it just as thoroughly. I associate equally with Indian and Tibetan Tantric views. I reacted to the way you reacted to me out of anger. We were basically arguing about books and authors and interpretations and views. Buddha said not to be attached to views, and I know why - because it holds you back. You become enlightened slower. If you and I both stayed away from this den of 'view cherishment' and just meditated all the time, we would be greater people - at least it seems that way to me. I have studied books and authors you haven't studied and vice versa. I would be happy to debate with you in a safe and sane manner, one that didn't involve personal attacks. I think we could expand eachother. When people start personally attacking me I get mirror-ish on them and do the same thing back. The reason I went and edited some of my posts above is that I am trying to quit that shit - its getting old, and I want to be a better man. I would love to debate philosophy with you all day long if you are game. Just realize that I have a tendency to get loco. I am very confident in my beliefs, as belief itself is the driver of the ego. We are only just playing ego games here. I am down for ego battles with you if you would like tear mine up...let's just do it more respectfully. I respect the Buddha so much that I want to be him - just not all the way. Please re-read my posts when you have time and you will see this. I lean more towards Vajrayana than Hinayana is all. I would rather be Avalokitesvara than Buddha if i was forced to choose. I would rather be Tilopa. I would rather be Tsongkhapa. I am less civilized than Buddha was and I like it this way. Me trying to be pure Buddhist is like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

 

EDIT: there is a reason I added you to my friends list!

Edited July 15, 2013 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

I am Indian raised Hindu and am familiar with the academic controversies revealed in "Invading the Sacred" and "Breaking India".

 

In some ways I don't think these arguments even matter - it is like playing 'he said, she said' games. If we all search for the truth, which is forever changing, we will forever change our own beliefs. To become stuck in one belief system is to become frozen. This is why I will not ever settle down. I dislike stagnation. It leads to loss of interest in life. I prefer continual creation, as in accords with the ever-changing Tao wheel. I will never ever subscribe to one system and only one system - I pick off the gold and leave the lead behind. I can only carry so much at one time, and I would rather be full of gold than lead. It's worth more - you grok me?

 

Let us destroy all ignorant views and exist in immaterial bliss through divine gnosis! Constantly re-creating and improving ourselves and everything around ourselves, as 'it' allows us to do. Basically, I am insane and insanity is simply this: being different than the norm. I expand the envelope to break the seal. Let's be friends and re-create the wheel.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Songtsan

[idiot_stimpy]

Its good you understand the conceptualizing mind. That doesn't make you a Mahasiddha though.

 

I wouldn't want to be labelled a Mahasiddha or a dzogchen practitioner

[RongzomFan]

I have probably read about a thousand books on Buddhist philosophy.

 

If you have read a thousand books on Buddhist philosophy, something basic would be Madhyamaka.

 

So I would like to hear which Madhyamaka books you have read.

[RongzomFan]

I lean more towards Vajrayana than Hinayana is all.

 

Vajrayana is my main interest as well.

[Songtsan]

If you have read a thousand books on Buddhist philosophy, something basic would be Madhyamaka.

 

So I would like to hear which Madhyamaka books you have read.

 

It will take me time to re-collect all that stuff. I love Madhyamaka stuff so much you would puke your guts out if you knew! lol I will try to make time, but it might take a while as I have so many projects on the pan right now.

[RongzomFan]

It will take me time to re-collect all that stuff. I love Madhyamaka stuff so much you would puke your guts out if you knew! lol I will try to make time, but it might take a while as I have so many projects on the pan right now.

 

I just wanted to know the titles.

[Songtsan]

Vajrayana is my main interest as well.

 

Do you use Shakti? She could catapult you further than ever before, if you let her. That's where my main focus is at right now.

[RongzomFan]

If you and I both stayed away from this den of 'view cherishment' and just meditated all the time, we would be greater people - at least it seems that way to me.

 

I don't believe in meditation. From the Vajrayana point of view, it is contrived and conceptual.

[Songtsan]

I just wanted to know the titles.

 

That will take time..I will get back to you, as I am falling asleep now. Sorry I was busy doing something else related, and i will post later as its not finished and my brain is bombing out.