My great realization

[Songtsan]

I have realized what is mostly wrong with me (and right at same time):

 

Here is the duality:

 

Caring for self/caring for others

 

-> let's start with the physical...seeing people suffering, I want to tell them how to heal themselves, teach them exercise, nutrition, etc. I am so polarized towards caring for others, that I am anti-polarized towards caring for self. I have little care for my self - not in a bad way - not self-hatred, not at all...just don't care - not interested - outside focused...I don't exercise like I should, don't eat like I know how I should, don't clean my room, etc etc. Suffering doesn't bother me. I simply am not interested right now - many more important things to do. It could be that excessive Yang extends outward towards others, and has no care for self...its a possibility I will be exploring. If Yin means caring/interest in self, then it makes great sense. My Yin must be small indeed.

 

-mental/emotional/spiritual -> same deal - someone has a problem, I know all kinds of mental health techniques to help it. My mind is crazy...doesn't bother me one lick. It's not my interest right now to care. All my energy us going outwards. This book I am writing, I don't even care if it makes money, I just want people to know the stuff in it. It is also an ego thing - a desire long unfulfilled, so it is caring for myself..but i write best when I am caring mostly for others, worst when I am thinking about my own gain.

 

I am not saying I am Mother Theresa..I still have vices and moments of angst, ego-defenses, etc. I am speaking to the average state of my being.

 

I am not looking for advice here. Please don't post telling me how to learn to care for myself, what I should do, how I should think, etc. Don't waste our time. This is my choice. I am sharing my realization with you, because it can apply to anyone. Everyone already knew this stuff, but sometimes we forget. That's about it.

 

EDIT: within the Yang, lies Yin...it is my great ecstasy to help others, and thus it gets me high, and so I do it for selfish/personal reasons..I am hooked on Yang juice.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

Here is the second part of my great realization:

 

How I am a great hypocrite!

 

...And, I also believe, just about everyone else on this board is as well. This has to do with proselytizing namely. I come here to proselytize others. Oh, I have always known it subconsciously of course, this is nothing new. However, I always explained it to myself as wanting to share my self with others, being excited about my realizations, wanting to share them, etc. What does that entail though? It entails shaping my words to create a carbon copy of my realization in others minds, so that they 'understand' me...However, subconsciously, I want to make that carbon copy not only to be understood, but to shape others' minds! I want to copy my own programming into your hard-drives! I am a walking, talking virus...lol so many of you guys are too in my opinion. This is just my version of you of course! I know absolutely nothing about any of you - only my perceptions of you - my thought construct of you. All we ever see here is the tip of the iceburg. No one knows anyone here - period. Yes, this is an abolutist statement, and so is very flawed, yet it is still so true. The 'Cat,' 'ChiDragon' 'Flofolil,' etc. that can be known is not those people! At all. So what we have here is a system of thought construct wars - delusional in the extreme! Never ever will it be absolutely true, although it may approach a likelihood of truth here or there...These thought construct wars take place in our own minds. Your thought construct wars are different than my thought construct wars. My thought constructs of you are different than your own thought construct for yourself. I can never ever touch the real you. Period. I am not saying this isn't useful though - it really is. The proof is in the pudding.

 

I know this: we come here to proselytize each other - in the extreme. Its not all we come here for! Just a significant part. I cannot say I will not stop, because even now I am still doing it. I cannot speak two words without trying to change you. It is in fact the nature of the beast. Only if I didn't come here at all could I avoid this. Even when I ask questions I am doing it. All words change the reality matrix - all actions in fact. All actions create action/reactions and so thus are about changing the action/reaction matrix. I am very resistant to people changing me - you may have noted this by now that I don't give in easily to others trying to change me. I am this way for a reason. I shall not explain because it is VERY complex and there for a reason. I shall simply summarize and say if you have succeeded in proselytizing me, then you owe yourself a pat on the back because you have cracked a tough nut indeed. Many of you have even if you haven't realized it. My gratitude to you. I am a virtual master of semantics and logic, and so I am hard to penetrate. It takes more than will to get past my defenses - it takes impeccable logic.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

Well, you keep working on that logic.

 

No, I had no idea you were trying to influence my core understandings. Hehehe.

[Songtsan]

Well, you keep working on that logic.

 

No, I had no idea you were trying to influence my core understandings. Hehehe.

 

every day my friend, every day i make great leaps and bounds...

 

if you can proselytize me towards greater understanding, well then 'We who are about to die, salute you!' You will be my Caesar for a minute.

[Marblehead]

every day my friend, every day i make great leaps and bounds...

 

if you can proselytize me towards greater understanding, well then 'We who are about to die, salute you!' You will be my Caesar for a minute.

Thanks. All I do is state my opinions and understandings. What others do with them is totally up to them.

 

No, I won't lead anyone. But I will walk with you for a while if we are headed in the same direction.

[Songtsan]

I think every action my ego-self takes is an attempt to change reality. Even if it just state my own opinion - in that act of seeking to make myself known, that is seeking to change your thought construct of who I am, and so thus, as your thought construct of who I am is you, I am seeking to change you.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

... I am seeking to change you.

Hehehe. Three wifes tried that and they failed miserably. And they were giving me nooky. How do you figure you have even a very small chance of doing it?

[Songtsan]

Hehehe. Three wifes tried that and they failed miserably. And they were giving me nooky. How do you figure you have even a very small chance of doing it?

 

I already have! hehe ..trust me...I altered you to some small degree already - if you look, you will find it out.

 

In fact, I don't think it is ever possible to interact with anyone on any level without change occuring. No one is ever static anyways. We all change every second regardless, as is the nature of impermanency. This is all co-creation, or interdependent co-origination.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

Honestly, no one can even say one word here without slightly altering the electrons, protons, neutrons, brain chemistry, etc. of someone else. My very presence on this board has co-created a thought construct of Songtsan in your mind. I helped create a piece of your mind. Even the absence of a reply from me in reaction to something you say to me speaks volumes and affects you. Impossible to interact with anyone and not change them. When one realizes the power of this, one gains even more power to change others, if that is their wish. Look at NLP, etc. I am not saying that I intend to manipulate others on purpose, just that I am realizing how far it really goes, and knowing this may and probably will temper the way i choose to interact with people. It is about taking more responsibility for my actions. I have grown leaps and bounds in the last few months here (and everywhere). Had some stumbling blocks, made some mistakes, but I am creating a new and improved (ego-wise) me.

[Marblehead]

I already have! hehe ..trust me...I altered you to some small degree already - if you look, you will find it out.

 

In fact, I don't think it is ever possible to interact with anyone on any level without change occuring. No one is ever static anyways. We all change every second regardless, as is the nature of impermanency. This is all co-creation, or interdependent co-origination.

Okay. I have to give you credit here. Good post. Good thoughts.

 

 

Edit to add: Your last post was a little too much for me regarding how we effect others but I will say that its good that you have noticed changes in yourself. I will make no judgements here but I think it is safe to say that we all can do a little better for ourself if we take the time to acknowledge our shortcomings and faults.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Marblehead

[Songtsan]

It is like this: Everything is one. We are what we perceive - so when you perceive me - you are me! Seer, the seen, and the act of seeing become one. Satchitananda...exactly the same as interdependent co-origination as taught by the Buddha. You will never truly see me, as there is your own ego-mind in the way, and my ego-mind in the way too...but I do influence you highly, although not directly. If your fathers fathers mothers fathers mothers fathers mother had never been born - neither would you have! lol. Every single thing that has ever happened has co-created you/me/they. All parts of the whole are inseparable.

[Marblehead]

Nope. At this point we would have to walk different paths. Remember, I am a Taoist, not a Buddhist. We are of the same source but we are different manifestations of that source (Tao).

[Songtsan]

Nope. At this point we would have to walk different paths. Remember, I am a Taoist, not a Buddhist. We are of the same source but we are different manifestations of that source (Tao).

 

I am a Taoist too, and yet not - and I am a Buddhist, yet not a Buddhist. I never said we walk the same exact path, just that our paths intersect from time to time...sometimes you follow in my footsteps, sometimes me in yours. It depends on who is ahead. You are ahead of me in some ways, I am ahead of you in some ways. And then of course all that is untrue. If you dont believe in interdependent co-origination, let me explain it further. The piece of paper sitting on your desk (assuming there is one somewhere). It didnt appear out of thin air. A tree grew somewhere. The tree grew there because someone planted it, or a tree seed dropped, etc. The water fell from the sky and gave it some juices it needed. The sun shined on it and helped it make sugar. It found elements in the soil that it needed to grow, which came from dead animals, nitrates that were produced from bacteria, etc. Someone came and chopped that tree down, that person would not have been able to chop that tree down if they hadnt been born. Someone made the chain saw that that person used to chop the tree down. Someone has to process that wood. Someone had to ship that wood to the paper mill. Someone had to build that paper mill. Someone had to ship that paper to the store. Someone had to build that store. Someone had to work at that store to sell you the paper. You had to go to the store to get that paper. You would have never gone to that store if you hadnt lived in that town/city. You wouldnt lived in that city if your parents hadnt raised you where they did. You can expand this infinitely in every direction. Butterfly wings start hurricanes. This is the web of life. Everything affects everything in this web. I affect you, you affect me. If you had never came into this thread and posted, I would not be posting what I am right now. You co-created my actions right at this moment. You manipulated me! You manipulator you! I am your puppet! Do you see that we co-manipulate each other? It is like this. You cant step one foot outside your door without being co-created by others all day long. You will never forget me. I have changed you permanently whether you admit it or not. Same goes for me and you vice versa.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[Marblehead]

Thanks but all you have said, and yes, I know that for some reason it is important to Buddhists, is not an issue for me.

 

That I need air (oxygen) to breath and water to drink and food to eat is a given.

 

Because you have free will you can totally ignore me if you wish. I could do the same. And you know what? we would continue to live however we chose.

 

If you have been influence by me then it is because you wanted it to happen. You made the choice.

 

And we are still two separate individuals who are having a conversation.

[Songtsan]

Thanks but all you have said, and yes, I know that for some reason it is important to Buddhists, is not an issue for me.

 

That I need air (oxygen) to breath and water to drink and food to eat is a given.

 

Because you have free will you can totally ignore me if you wish. I could do the same. And you know what? we would continue to live however we chose.

 

If you have been influence by me then it is because you wanted it to happen. You made the choice.

 

And we are still two separate individuals who are having a conversation.

 

I am not sure what you think I think anymore...that O2 isn't necesary? I never said that I like oxygen - I'd be dead without it. Let's reset here: is there an argument? what is it? We should regroup know as I am getting confused, seriously!

[Marblehead]

I am not sure what you think I think anymore...that O2 isn't necesary? I never said that I like oxygen - I'd be dead without it. Let's reset here: is there an argument? what is it? We should regroup know as I am getting confused, seriously!

Okay.

 

Reset.

 

I was only pointing out that all living beings have basic needs and as most of us cannot provide our own we must rely on others to offer them to us for a fair price. And just because we have a business arrangement doesn't mean we have somehow bonded and become pseudo brothers and sisters.

 

I don't buy into the "we all are one" and "we all are the same person" stuff. We each are individuals, special and unique. Just because my butt is sitting on the chair doesn't mean the chair has become a part of me.

 

I don't argue with you saying that we influence others. It may be in a positive way or it may be in a negative way. And then many time we have encounters with others and when the exchange is over all is forgotten within minutes because someting else has come up in our life.

[Songtsan]

Okay.

 

Reset.

 

I was only pointing out that all living beings have basic needs and as most of us cannot provide our own we must rely on others to offer them to us for a fair price. And just because we have a business arrangement doesn't mean we have somehow bonded and become pseudo brothers and sisters.

 

I don't buy into the "we all are one" and "we all are the same person" stuff. We each are individuals, special and unique. Just because my butt is sitting on the chair doesn't mean the chair has become a part of me.

 

I don't argue with you saying that we influence others. It may be in a positive way or it may be in a negative way. And then many time we have encounters with others and when the exchange is over all is forgotten within minutes because someting else has come up in our life.

 

Both sides are true - it is backed up by physics and well accepted nowadays that all energy in the universe exists everywhere at once. Really! Go Google it. We do have separate selves as well. So I agree with what you say, I just agree with what I say too. Would you like a more scientific explanation, or a psychological one, or a spiritual one?

[idiot_stimpy]

Just because my butt is sitting on the chair doesn't mean the chair has become a part of me.

 

Because of mental discrimination. Objectifying what is me and not me.

 

Many look what is underneath that mental discrimination.

[Marblehead]

Many look what is underneath that mental discrimination.

But I have never found a reason to do so. I use a chair for the purpose it was intended and that's all. A chair is to sit on.

[idiot_stimpy]

But I have never found a reason to do so. I use a chair for the purpose it was intended and that's all. A chair is to sit on.

 

I am completely happy for you to not have a reason. Because if I cannot respect your choices, how can I respect my own.

[Songtsan]

OK - why you are the chair - let's start there!

 

When you sit down on the chair, there are various receptor nerves in the skin of your buttocks that are activated...ones that tell your brain the level of pressure that is being applied to your buttocks, the density of the wood, etc. These are electrical sensations that create a mind map. So tactile sensations are electrically based. Next is vision. When you see the chair way over there in your room - your eyeballs do not go out to the chair! Nope. The light from the lamp you are using is reflected off of the chair and hits your eyeballs right where they are at in your head...this stimulates receptors at the back of your eye (cones & rods), which send electrical signals to your brain, which eventually form the perception of colors and shapes. The photons coming from the chair had wavelengths and frequencies. This data was taken from the brain and used to create the color. The color does not exist out there. This has been proven for years now - many many years...all light contains is data - color is created in your brain.

 

So far we have taken care of color and tactile sensations. This should be enough for now. I could do smell, taste, and sound too, but chairs don't make much noise, don't have much smell, and most people don't eat them, so....

 

Color produced in brain, perceptions of density, etc. produced in brain...in reality, atoms are 99% space, when we feel resistance this is due to forces, not solidity - energy forces - so everything is energy...

 

Everything you perceive, while being part of a greater whole (which is why you are everything, as this is all a process/relationship), for the purpose of this discussion is occurring in your brain. You are that. You are that energy in your mind. You are the perception of chair-ness. If you were hallucinating on the right drugs, someone could take that chair away and you could still see that exact chair where its at. If someone stimulated certain parts of your brain with electrodes, you could be faked into thinking that ants were crawling on you, or that your hand had become a football - this has all been documented for years and years and years.

 

We are the mind. It is mostly separate from the real world (delusionally speaking) until we truly understand (enlightenment!).

 

You inter-exist with the photons, with the chair, with everything you have ever known. You are in relationship with it.

 

I can expand if you wish?

[nine tailed fox]

lol posted in wrong topic

Edited July 15, 2013 by nine tailed fox

[Songtsan]

I think suffering is largely based on fear, obsession, rumination, anxiety, worry, hatred (self/others), anger (self/others), disdain, and so on. We hate these things, we don't like how they taste (in general - some people like 'em), that is suffering. Espcially when we can't stop them, but we keep trying to run from them.

[idiot_stimpy]

Driven through desire.

[Marblehead]

I can expand if you wish?

Please don't. My chair has never been that complicated. Could it be that sometimes you think too much? Hehehe.