"Ego", "Illusion"

[Flolfolil]

If you criticize someone for acting through their ego aren't you acting through YOUR ego to tell them that? If you criticize someone for giving into illusion aren't YOU giving into illusion?

 

Yo dawg, we herd u liek cars so we put a car in yo car so you can drive while u drive...

[becomethepath]

Yes, we must be open to everything, if someone is smoking a cigarette in the car, one shouldn't be like "I don't like cigarettes, throw it out please", one should say "I like the smell of cigarettes"

Edited July 14, 2013 by becomethepath

[de_paradise]

If you are realized then when you criticize someone, it doesnt have the same effect of drawing you back into your ego delusion, so its not the same consequences as an unrealized person. Unrealized people trade "its your ego" criticisms all the time, its silly. If you are like me, a little bit of realization and stumbing around in a body and mind used to criticizing people, having conversations with friends speaking ill of others, etc, tits ass, and making distinctions all day long, then you have to catch your mistakes one by one, repent them if you want to be consistent with the truth of non-distinction.

[Ish]

Yes, we must be open to everything, if someone is smoking a cigarette in the car, one shouldn't be like "I don't like cigarettes, throw it out please", one should say "I like the smell of cigarettes"

 

 

Sarcastic?

 

If not then it's a pretty unhealthy attitude to take i would say.

[Marblehead]

Yes, we must be open to everything, ...

You won't find me playing that game.

[becomethepath]

Sarcastic?

 

If not then it's a pretty unhealthy attitude to take i would say.

No, we must be open to everything. We shouldn't argue with someone or put someone down. Let's say you have children. You wouldn't want someone to say, "people who have kids are stupid" to you. It's creates negative emotions.

Edited July 14, 2013 by becomethepath

[Marblehead]

No, we must be open to everything. We shouldn't argue with someone or put someone down.

Ah!, a true Pacifist. Best wishes with that.

[konchog uma]

lol im with you marblehead

 

if we were open to everythind we'd all be speaking german right now

 

we'd all be neanderthals because homo sapiens would have been like "wow man thats a nice club you wanna hit me with that thing and have sex with my wife? oh yeah thats groovy baby youre a freak show me how you do it"

 

its hard to deal with aggression but as they say someones gotta do it

[konchog uma]

if you're smoking in my car i'll tell you to put that stinky shit out right now.

 

but i wanted to reply to the OP, that i was just saying something in vmarco's thread in the pit about healthy sanghas about this. So heres a link

 

a person who has realized the nature of illusion can point out illusion to others in a way that isn't ridiculous, and that a person who has gone beyond their own ego can reduce the egos of others skillfully. Most times the case is that someone who read in a book that everything is illusion is trying to tell you this without any realization of their own, or someone who is coming from a place of ego is calling you egotistical, but not always.

[Flolfolil]

very good point! It makes sense to me that if a person wanted to "get rid" of their ego, they might have an easier time if they first purified it

[de_paradise]

I was reflecting upon how it is that your posts are so apposite, wise, and truly helpful, and yet your posts largely spark no discussion and the conversation goes on around your posts as if they werent there. I reckon it is to do with your refinement of energy and your work on your ego.. I reckon you have an energy signature that doesnt register on lots of frequencies. If I were you I'd take this as a sign of great success.

Thanks Cat, but I think its because I generally don't edit my posts for ambiguities and run-ons, nor do I restate the major points. I'm just happy to finish them as notes strung together rather than convincing argument. It does seem hard for quite a few people to grasp why their speech and mind should have their ego (doubts, distinctions, fears, desires, etc) ironed out as a result of their own effort, although its a major part of the Buddhist path, and there is plenty of literature. Often people point out how a realized person's points of views come from the same ego as anyone elses, thinking there is some logical inconsistency, but we know that the definition of "ego" has shifted with spiritual liberation. And whats important is not whether they are being nice or jerks, its whether their behavior lands them back in an unelightened state. Not for the permanently realized, things just wash by. For me, I definitely feel what pulls me back or lower, so I know first hand by trial and error what type of thoughts, emotions and behaviors to iron out, and what thoughts, emotions and behavior to maintain.

[Marblehead]

if you're smoking in my car i'll tell you to put that stinky shit out right now.

Well, sure. If I were to ride womewhere with you I would first ask if you mind if I smoke. I don't smoke in my friend's SUV or at his house. His family are non-smokers.

[Ish]

No, we must be open to everything. We shouldn't argue with someone or put someone down. Let's say you have children. You wouldn't want someone to say, "people who have kids are stupid" to you. It's creates negative emotions.

 

There are harmful things on all levels, the physical, energy and mental...

 

Smoking is harmful, period. So you absolutely don't want to create negative emotions, why would you allow smoking?

 

You don't have to argue or put someone down to make a reasonable point - its called tact.

 

 

Being a doormat is ridiculous. You create bad results for not only yourself but for the person you allow to do stupid things.

[Flolfolil]

when i eat bad food, my stomach ache is a lot worse if i repeatedly scold myself for eating bad food

[Marblehead]

when i eat bad food, my stomach ache is a lot worse if i repeatedly scold myself for eating bad food

Yes, whenever we concentrate on our pain it will always grow stronger.

[Songtsan]

If you criticize someone for acting through their ego aren't you acting through YOUR ego to tell them that? If you criticize someone for giving into illusion aren't YOU giving into illusion?

 

Yo dawg, we herd u liek cars so we put a car in yo car so you can drive while u drive...

 

agreed!

[Songtsan]

No, we must be open to everything. We shouldn't argue with someone or put someone down. Let's say you have children. You wouldn't want someone to say, "people who have kids are stupid" to you. It's creates negative emotions.

 

No one must be anything...the only law that applies is 'do what thou wilst.' this is the bottom line...everyone can do whatever it is in their power to do. Or as Captain Jack Sparrow said, " The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do." I dare anyone to refute this. You must prove that this rule doesn't apply, or that your rule applies by logic.

 

EDIT:

 

I should add that action/reaction rules always apply, but they are secondary to the initial act of choosing, although they also lie immediately before the act as well...they are before, during, and after. The choice exists only in the moment, you cannot choose your past, or future, as they have already occurred or have yet to occur. Choice in the moment, action/reaction all the way through and through.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Songtsan

[becomethepath]

I read in buddhist books that we need to be open and not create arguments..Put ego to a side that what the book is telling me.

 

Like you're invited to a family dinner, however the family cooked all meat and you're vegetarian. They realized they made a mistake, however you let go of ego and eat the meat.

 

I don't know.

[Songtsan]

The more rules you make for yourself, the more you will suffer as you constantly break those rules in your head. Sorry it's like this. There are always better ways to be..each day presents us with this opportunity to become actual masters of ourselves. By placing one's own mind in the cauldron of lust, you can achieve greatness with great speed! Follow your desire and it will show you the way.

[idiot_stimpy]

Who is being a master of who?

 

 

Until you find out the credibility of the 'I', 'Me' and 'Myself', you are pruning the tree without cutting the root.

[Songtsan]

Who is being a master of who?

 

 

Until you find out the credibility of the 'I', 'Me' and 'Myself', you are pruning the tree without cutting the root.

 

Exactly. There is simply awareness awakening to what it is. When it realizes what it is doing, it takes control of the crazy mind-monkeys again. It stops making them, knowing that it was them, and it begins to make divine monkey-beings. Maybe? I don't know I am too sleepy right now to be clear...

[C T]

The more rules you make for yourself, the more you will suffer as you constantly break those rules in your head. Sorry it's like this. There are always better ways to be..each day presents us with this opportunity to become actual masters of ourselves. By placing one's own mind in the cauldron of lust, you can achieve greatness with great speed! Follow your desire and it will show you the way.

Its not so much being led by the nose with desires as hooks, but to see thru the basic assumptions of what noses and hooks are, beyond the norms of mediocre interpretations, so that one attains freedom from conceptual overlays of everyday forms. To become unbound, so to say.

[Songtsan]

Its not so much being led by the nose with desires as hooks, but to see thru the basic assumptions of what noses and hooks are, beyond the norms of mediocre interpretations, so that one attains freedom from conceptual overlays of everyday forms. To become unbound, so to say.

 

the way I illustrated is also a valid path. One can follow desire with the wisdom eye open and quickly learn the rules that way as well. This is also a way of direct perception, and is inherent in many Tantric paths. This is what I do. Its a more fiery, vs. cool path, and involves more chances to mess up and go insane. I seem to have passed muster so far. It is Shiva riding the snake, letting the snake lead, blissfully aware the whole time what the snake is doing. The way you mention is more Krishna-esque - taking control of the reigns of the chariot, which are attached to the horses of the mind. I like them both, but I must confess, those Latin women are the best.

[konchog uma]

The more rules you make for yourself, the more you will suffer as you constantly break those rules in your head. Sorry it's like this. There are always better ways to be..each day presents us with this opportunity to become actual masters of ourselves. By placing one's own mind in the cauldron of lust, you can achieve greatness with great speed! Follow your desire and it will show you the way.

 

actually tantric practice is about sublimating lust, and is full of rules.

[Songtsan]

actually tantric practice is about sublimating lust, and is full of rules.

 

there is more than one...left hand is different. I am very Aghora-esque. I am Kundalini-driven. She is my guru and all i will ever need. She is Kali - and Kali is Tantra to the core. Rules don't exist with Kali - she does whatever she feels like and you can place no rules upon her. In the end, we become what we are surrounded by, and as I am surrounded by Kundalini, I become that, or the aspects that she chooses to show me, which are divinely compassionate + divinely/demonically cruel.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Songtsan