Xiang Gong - Fragrant Qigong

[DSCB57]

I am very interested in this discussion. I have been practising the level 1 form from videos found on Youtube for getting on for 2 years now. In my case I am practising in order to hopefully resolve some spinal injuries and other health issues. Now, just as I was about to begin the second level practice I just found several new videos which contradict pretty much each movement in the level 1 form, so now I am hesitant. My Qigong level is sufficient to enable me to quickly feel the differences in terms of the efficacy of one practice as compared to another, but I am not prepared to mix and match. I want to learn the form as Master Tian teaches it, preferably from an authorised source, such as one of his own instructors. However I am based in Europe (Spain) and have very limited income as I am unable to earn my living due to my present condition, although it has improved over the past couple of years...

[SmilingPenance]

Hi just discover this style and would like to learn more. can anyone point be to a book or video of these practices done correctly. want to start on the right foot

[DSCB57]

Smiling Penance. I doubt you will find anyone here willing or able to accede to your requests, as Master Tian has disappeared off the map. Apparently, his children still teach the system in China.

For what it's worth, I discovered the Flying Phoenix Qigong system as taught by GM Doo Wai, and have now been practicing it for the past year with far better results than those I achieved through practicing the Fragrant Qigong system for significantly longer, and it is an incomplete system, as the third part of the system can only be transmitted directly in person and there are no videos published of that part of the system whatsoever.

If you are interested in hearing more about Flying Phoenix Qigong I recommend doing a search on these forums. If you want to practice in order to heal yourself or others, I know of no comparable system to that of the Flying Phoenix Qigong system. I was skeptical at first until I began to practice the meditations. Now there's no looking back. 

I hope you find this useful.

[Leif]

On 8. 9. 2017 at 0:09 PM, SmilingPenance said:

Hi just discover this style and would like to learn more. can anyone point be to a book or video of these practices done correctly. want to start on the right foot

 

Possibly this:

 

 

Can't vouch for this with any certainty, but with same question as you have, just some time back, somehow I ended up with this video (quite likely recommended in an older thread here on TDB, not sure anymore).

Edited September 17, 2017 by Leif

[DSCB57]

At least the movements are fairly consonant with the written instructions for Level 1, but performed very poorly in my humble opinion. The practitioner obviously has no idea where the LDT is (she circulates around the Middle Dantien), nor the Laugong points, which are supposed to be aligned throughout the movements. The movements are also quite a bit too fast and too rigid. Also, the eyes should be closed in the meditation in prayer mudra. The Daoyin Fa at the end of the video is definitely not correct.

[nyerstudent]

I haven't received any formal training in Fragrant Qigong so I have no idea how good / bad my form is, but for awhile I followed these videos and the movements 'felt' right. A few small tweaks I'd make is to keep my elbows tucked to the side of the body and fixed throughout the motion (here they are a bit relaxed about that):

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by nyerstudent

[Vovi]

On 7/29/2016 at 0:00 AM, Leif said:

Another interesting aspect of this system, while in others you are often told to practice some long times to achieve serious results, here it's the opposite: "At most, three times a day, no more than this. Otherwise the results will be bad."

 

Exactly. One of my colleagues did practice level 1 three times in a row and she got headache and hypertension right after that. It is recommended that one does it no more than 3 times a day and there should be at least 6 hours between sessions.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Vovi
typing error

[Vovi]

On 9/20/2017 at 6:41 PM, nyerstudent said:

I haven't received any formal training in Fragrant Qigong so I have no idea how good / bad my form is, but for awhile I followed these videos and the movements 'felt' right. A few small tweaks I'd make is to keep my elbows tucked to the side of the body and fixed throughout the motion (here they are a bit relaxed about that): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA9sB8SKxNU

 

 

The below two clips are taught by Grandmaster Tian's daughters so IMHO they are the most precise demonstrations found on the web.

 

This clip is for level 1 taught by Grandmaster Tian's younger daughter Tian Aifang. At the end of the clip Grandmaster Tian teachs us on a detox method too.

 

The following clip is for level 2 taught by Grandmaster Tian's elder daughter Tian Shufang:

 

 

Both clips contains some of Grandmaster Tian's healing session fragments/interviews. It is a pity that they are in Mandarin so most of us non-Chinese cannot understand.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Vovi
upload links

[Vovi]

15 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I never heard of practicing six hours between sessions, as the way it was practiced in Beijing for Shifu Dolic's experience is that you could do all 3 sessions in a row and that was fine. Some people do two rounds of Level 1 and then one round of Level 2, or just three rounds of Level 1. When I practiced, I just did three rounds of Level 1 in the morning to no ill effect. 

 

My guess is that there was probably either a healing crisis and those problems were coming out, or the forms may have been done slightly wrong such as drinking water less than 20 minutes before or after, as well as the whole list of don'ts before practice (such as practicing alone at night in the dark or on an eclipse). 

 

Just reviewed the Xiang Gong manual there was no rule for idle time between sessions. Maybe I heard or saw it somewhere else. And maybe my colleague broke some rules as she was a new practitioner, or it was a sign of strong healing inside her body.

[Vovi]

15 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

If you forward these clips to Shifu Dolic, he can give you some comments on this as well. 

 

Hi Earl, how can I contact Sifu Dolic? Thanks.

[Vovi]

Thanks a lot Earl.

[tao stillness]

I want to reply to these posts about Fragrant Qigong. It is something I learned about 2 weeks ago and the first day that I tried it, a health condition that I had symptoms of for over 20 years, maybe even 30 years, healed in a major way literally over night with the combination of a very simple qigong method from a different form. This was the first miracle healing I ever experienced. And my experience includes 44 years of daily TM meditation, and 20 years of consulting with a top ayurvedic medical clairvoyant and all of his recommended herbs and supplements, 26 years of Reiki, and trying at least 80 different styles of Qigong. So obviously I am indebted to Master Tian for teaching this form. I learned it from the online videos of his daughters teaching the form which I have to assume is the correct way. Earl Grey was kind enough to tell me how to get in touch with his teacher who visits the Tian family.

I then exchanged emails with Earl's teachers and read about Fragrant Qigong on his website and then obtained his book on Qigong. Few Westerners have accomplished in TCM and qigong what this teacher has. Therefore, if he has said that he has visited Master Tian who is alive and well, then that is good enough for me. And my guess would be that Master Tian would prefer to have a group of 5,000 to learn Fragrant Qigong because that many people creates a strong Qi field and the stronger the Qi field, the stronger the healing for the participants. That is also when people can smell the fragrances, in very large groups. 

The Chinese government does not allow large groups to gather to practice qigong, but they do allow large tai chi groups because that is a martial art and not qigong, according to their paranoid thinking. Fragrant Qigong was eventually banned because of the large crowds filling soccer stadiums. So just like the large numbers of Falun Dafa people were a threat to the Communist Party, so was the large numbers from Fragrant Qigong. The Chinese government is known to use propaganda to discredit whomever they fear. I also want to say that many people on this blog have probably wondered over the years why I have tried do many different qigong methods. I often even questioned myself about this. But I finally realized the reason after the healing I had from Fragrant Qigong. In spite of the great test results about what each qigong method was doing for me according to what my medical clairvoyant was seeing each of them do for me, I still had this strong sense that I am not really experiencing that many benefits in daily life other than more energy. So my search for the right qigong method for myself has really paid off. Now I am glad that to my own self I remained true. As Grandmaster Doo Wai says on some of his qigong videos, the proof of the method is if it gives you results. 

[Victor]

Hi, I'm really interested in Fragrant Qigong and I have some questions about it.

 

The first is how massage techniques relates with this qigong and in general with others practices. Personally I found it to be quite relaxing and energizing but master Tian warns not to mix Fragrant Qigong with other methods, so I don't want to keep doing it and eventually cause problems.

 

The other question is about the feeling during sessions: i feel some tingling and mild numbness all over the body, especially lower back, hands and rear legs, but I never experienced the strong fragrances that the Master talks about; does this mean that my practice is not completely correct?

 

Anyway I'm an almost total novice in energy practice, but for now this qigong set made me feel the strongest energy sensations and helped me the most in comparison to others methods (five elements, eight brocades), but still in a really subtle scale. For this reason I'm eager to know if other people persisted in its practice and which kind of benefits they reported.

 

Happy practice to everybody!

[Fa Xin]

Not everyone smells fragrances.  It doesn't mean your practice is not correct.  

[tao stillness]

I have received some advice from a teacher of Fragrant Qigong who studies TCM and qigong for several years in China and he has visited the Tian family. He told me that other qigong methods can be done with Fragrant Qigong just as long as they do not involve unnatural breathing methods and do not use visualization or guiding the Qi mentally. I have never smelled any fragrance but my wife smelled fragrance strongly the first time she tried Fragrant Qigong and each time she has tried it. She also can taste flowers in the Fragrant Qigong water that I make following Master Tian's method for that. But I have never tasted anything from the water. Yet the method works regardless of what is being sensed or not sensed. Some people base their evaluation of qigong methods by the experiences or sensations that they have from it. That would be a mistake since you cannot determine what the Qi is really doing for you during the practice. 

I want to clarify the post that I wrote in January of 2018 when I said that Earl Grey's teacher visited Master Tian's family and Master Tian is alive and well. I since have spoken with that person and he said he visited the family but Master Tian was not there. So it would be incorrect for me to report that he said Master Tian is alive and well. From what I read in the book it seems that Fragrant Qigong is most powerful for healing when done in very large groups. But I have also heard of testimonials from people doing FQ alone. 

As for learning the method from videos I have John Dolic's dvds and I find that the posted youtube videos on this thread done by Master Tian's daughters are done in the same way that John Dolic performs them. But you do need instruction for the do's and don'ts so you would need John's dvds for level one and two if you do not understand Mandarin. And a reminder that different qigong methods do different things for different people. I did Flying Phoenix Chi Kung for 2 years and did not heal anything. I did Fragrant Qigong and after the first night it improved a medical condition that I had for 20-30 years. So different strokes for different folks. 

But if someone wants to feel chi very strongly, then Flying Phoenix most likely will do that for most people. I always enjoyed doing Flying Phoenix but my lifestyle never permitted enough time for it. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by tao stillness
to embelish

[Starjumper]

On 1/15/2018 at 3:42 PM, tao stillness said:

I want to reply to these posts about Fragrant Qigong. It is something I learned about 2 weeks ago and the first day that I tried it, a health condition that I had symptoms of for over 20 years, maybe even 30 years, healed in a major way literally over night with the combination of a very simple qigong method from a different form.

 

Someone asked me about Fragrant chi Kung so I looked at this thread.  I'm impressed that such a strong healing effect can be had from such a limited type of chi kung.  It looks like medical chi kung to me and the focus appears to be mostly in the heart and solar plexus area, to balance and to do a lot of 'mixing'.  So if someone needs that kind of healing in that area it's good.  From the videos shown here it can be seen that there is no focus on cultivating chi power, vitality, or spiritual growth.

 

I'm curious, what other chi kung did you blend this with?

Edited July 23, 2018 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

23 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

It is a very strong form for psychic and physical development, as at level 3, teleportation is possible, but that level is only reserved for those who are worthy of learning it, and those have typically been within the family and only those who will take on the lineage. Levels 1 and 2 are gifts to the public and even level 1 has cured deafness. 

 

There is indeed cultivation of qi power, vitality, and spiritual growth, but it does so in a way that is difficult to see without actually doing the form. I stopped because not only was it too strong that even doing a few movements can affect someone who has done it for a while, but because the limitations meant I couldn't meditate and couldn't do my other forms like Flying Phoenix or Spontaneous Five Animals.

 

Well I'm going to try it and see what I feel or what it can do for me.  I seriously doubt it could be too strong for me but we'll see  

 

I can't imagine how it could do much for vitality since it contains no exercise, nor do I see how it works on spiritual growth without having included meditation or an upward focus for energy work; but like I said, I'll try it a few times and let you know,  keep in mind I'm a bit numb to energy compared to some people since I blew all my fuses.

 

23 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

When I say meditate, by the way, I mean their definition is nothing with intense visualization. There's a whole list of dos and don'ts and the only other qigong I was able to practice was physical whether it was Eight Brocades, either seated or standing, or the self-massage form as there was no breathing technique involved, and special breathing is not allowed with Fragrant nor are mental practices like Spontaneous. 

 

My chi kung doesn't contain any special breathing nor mental practices so I think it's OK for me.  Special breathing and mental practices are not compatible with my chi kung either.

[Starjumper]

On 7/27/2018 at 10:15 PM, Earl Grey said:

I'm sending to your e-mail the free public PDF of Level 1 that is available on any search engine

 

OK I got it, thanks.  I find that my initial ideas about this chi kung were a little limited.  I watched and did the level one and see they cover everything between the upper and lower tan tien instead of just heart and solar plexus.  it's a very different kind of chi kung than what I'm used to, but I find that the fast movements do get the chi buzzing pretty well.  It's missing something though, something I get from the slower movements, not sure exactly how to state that feeling.  However it now gets the Starjumper seal of approval.

 

The fast movements offer an interesting possibility, my system includes some fast movements but of a different type, however I was thinking of making a video of some techniques done at fast speed.

 

I also watched excerpts from the second set and it looks like there is a lot of waist movement.  This is also a good technique.  In my system we do it differently, we do it in a way that builds a lot of core strength and is more of a workout, but the important ingredient is there.  This is the video of level 2 which came after the one posted previously.

 

 

 

I need to watch and maybe try the complete level 2 to get a better idea of what it entails.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Starjumper

[tao stillness]

In reply to Star Jumper, I was also doing one method from Chi-Lel/Zhineng along with the Fragrant Qigong. The method from Chi-Lel is a common posture they call La Chi. It is the one where you look like you are playing an accordion. Palms face each other close to each other and you then open them apart and then come back together. In Spring Forest Qigong this posture is known as Breathing the Universe. For the first 10 days that I did these 2 qigong methods I did not have to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, an age related condition of prostate gland. However, after several days things reverted back to how they used to be so that was a brief and temporary healing only. That was disappointing. But it could due to the fact that I slacked off doing the La Chi posture. It was tested that doing it for 30 minutes would be the optimum amount of time. But I stopped doing that much. So I need to go back to doing it for the recommended amount time like I did for the first 10 days to see if the condition again improves.

[tao stillness]

Also to Star Jumper, there is no way to do the level 2 Fragrant Qigong properly from any you tube video unless you understand Chinese. This is because there are movements done where you have to work your legs in a way that is opposite to the side you are moving your hands to, etc. That requires teaching and practice which is available in English on John Dolic's dvd of this form. I learned levels one and two from his dvds. Then you can follow along with the youtube videos of Master Tian's daughters doing the forms. I would not trust any other posted videos of Fragrant Qigong because even as a novice I noticed mistakes being made. My wife strongly smelled the scent of flowers when she tried doing Fragrant Qigong the first time and she smells it when I have done the form in the same room as she is in. But I have yet to smell anything, nor have I felt anything other than the typical chi sensation in the hands. And that is all I have felt from any of the other 80-90 methods of qigong that I have tried.

[Starjumper]

On 8/2/2018 at 3:03 AM, Earl Grey said:

One thing to note for level 2 is that you must not practice without a minimum of 6-12 months of daily Level1 first without missing a day.

 

as I am traveling it is hard to discuss this and will reply more later.

 

Thanks,  I am very happy with my own practice, it keeps me busy and has everything I need.  I was just checking out this Fragrant chi kung because someone asked me about it and it isn't for me so no worries about the levels and how long they should take.  At first I thought it was kind of dumb but upon a closer look I can see it's not so dumb and has some good stuff.   However it seems really strange to me after the training I've had so it's not for me but I can recommend it for others to try.  It did give me some ideas about the benefits of rapid small movements for chi kung and it's something I'm incorporating a little more into my own system.

[Victor]

Hi, just wanted to share my short personal experience with this form and ask something about the second level.

 

I've been doing the first level for about a month and a half, two times a day. I tried to follow strictly the rules for the practice, and I strongly advise to do so to everyone.

As for the healing, I had some nasty condition that involves nerve entrampent and muscle spasm that seems to be like 80% gone.

 

Also, my tinnitus reverted from quite noticeable (45 deciBels to give an aproximation, to almost not udible, I would say 10 dB with a very low buzz tone), so in this regard I'm very happy and looking forward to achieve 1 year of practice.

Generally I feel more confident, have more energy, my mood lifted and my temperament molded a bit. I also find that I enjoy music much more than before and eat less.

 

As for the sensation during practice, I have to say that I am an absolute beginner in QiGong, so maybe I just experienced the normal way of things. My sensations are: buzzing in ears, numbness in hands and feet, deep relaxation of leg muscles, feeling of something dripping inside my throath and inside my eustachian tubes and ears. During the meditation part: intense cold, inexplicable happiness, goosebumps and "vision" of a river and/or a big waterfall when I close my eyes. Never smelled anything unusual, but after practice the smell of things seems to be much stronger.

 

I hope this short report can help someone.

 

For the second level I wanted to ask if it's better to get the Dvd from Master John Dolic?  I understand that learning from the PDF source leads to an incomplete teaching, since the movement are more complicated than the first level. 

 

Also, if you know any knowledgeable master in Europe I could consider to personally learn from him. I'm Italian, so if it's possible to meet him in southern Europe I would be really happy.

 

When I'll complete the 'six months trial' 😂 of this practice I'm considering to introduce my family to it, so hopefully we will do group practice and again test this system with more people.

 

P.S.

(Special thanks to Earl Grey 😀 for solving  some doubts about Xiang Gong practice)

Edited August 10, 2018 by Victor

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Victor said:

Also, my tinnitus reverted from quite noticeable (45 deciBels to give an aproximation, to almost not udible, I would say 10 dB with a very low buzz tone), so in this regard I'm very happy

 

How long did you have tinnitus for before doing the chi kung?  How long did you do the Fragrant chi kung for before you noticed this change?  I've had a little tinnitus for a long time so I might do this level one to see if it will make a difference.  It matters how long you've had it and its' much easier to correct if done early on. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Starjumper

[Victor]

Starjumper: I'm quite young, 21 years old.

 

The tinnitus started when I was 16 probably due to drum practice and incorrect listening hygiene(loud music in headphones, frequent rock concerts ecc), so I think there's a significant hear loss component in that ( on Wikipedia you can read something about cells in the cochela dying and the brain replacing the missing frequencies with tinnitus).

 

However, in my 18 it worsened a lot, and it was linked with a feeling of blocked ears, fullness, and sinusitis. 

 

I started general QiGong practice about 4 months ago, with 8 brocades and five elements qigong series on youtube. One month and half ago I started fragrant, but I made some mistakes for the first ten days or so, so I would say it's one month of real practice.

My tinnitus followed this evolution: 1st month--> no change

2nd month--> down to 8/10, often feeling of dripping in the ear and nose

3rd month---->6/10

now-->2/10, right after practice it tends to zero and raises during the day.

 

Considerations (Always remember that I'm no expert and all this is about my own personal experience): if I refer to my starting condition as 10, I could say that every day of QiGong practice brings it down of 0.1, while incorrect expositions to noises and or music concerts raises it of like 0.5.

 

I'm pretty confident that if you're tinnutus comes partially from fluid in ears it can be helped significantly. About complete resolution, my knowledge is that cochlea cells do not regenerate, so probably we'll never achieve that, almost like no practice can let you regrow an arm (but I sincerely hope QiGong surprises us about this last statement).

 

I know how much distress this condition can cause and I sincerely hope you can solve that, also, when I will have more experience in QiGong I'm going to open a topic about this problem.

 

 

Moreover:

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Just learn from John Dolic. I tried learning from the pdf first and he taught me corrections that are difficult to learn from a document. 

 

I also am a close student of his so feel free to ask for some funny stories about fragrant since he has volumes of stories.

 

Should I ask you directly to Master Dolic or also you?

 

I'm very curios about stories of fragrant practice leading to healing, as anyone I think, but also about how it is possible that this form improves intelligence and concentration quality (I always tought it was a fixated quality for an adult).

 

I'm also surprised by the fact that practice seems to balance my emotions and outcomes with other people, so any story in this regard would be really appreciated! 

 

Again, thank you very much for your knowledge and I apologize if my english is not really delightful to read😂

Edited August 10, 2018 by Victor

[Starjumper]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:45 AM, Victor said:

I'm pretty confident that if you're tinnutus comes partially from fluid in ears it can be helped significantly. About complete resolution, my knowledge is that cochlea cells do not regenerate, so probably we'll never achieve that, almost like no practice can let you regrow an arm (but I sincerely hope QiGong surprises us about this last statement).

 

I know how much distress this condition can cause and I sincerely hope you can solve that, also, when I will have more experience in QiGong I'm going to open a topic about this problem.

 

Luckily it doesn't cause me distress, I guess my meditations have made it easier to accept things.  The main cause was exposure to loud noise since I worked in metal shops for many years and also while building a house for myself and using a staple gun to put roof shingles on and being too lazy to go down off the roof and get my ear muffs.

 

I've also read that the nerve cells in the ear do not regenerate and the noise comes from the brain compensating for the lack of input.  I was wondering if there was any hope for reversing this type of brain activity but there didn't seem to be much hope for that.  However I've learned that chi kung can do some miraculous things so evidently your practice has either generated new nerve/hair cells in your ear or the brain compensation is being turned down.  I think it helps that you are young and the likelihood of generating new hearing cells seems possible.

 

I think it would be a good idea for you to carry ear plugs with you a lot of the time and use them whenever you are in a noisy environment.  I do that now.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Starjumper