Xiang Gong - Fragrant Qigong

[Vajra Fist]

On 11/05/2021 at 8:37 PM, MPENA said:

Hi, can kids do FQ? I got a 6 yo and an 8 yo who are keen on joining me whenever they see me practice. 

 

I wouldn't advise children to practice any sort of qigong. Their energy systems are still developing. 

[MPENA]

Thanks. Will take note of this.

On 14/05/2021 at 5:33 AM, Vajra Fist said:

 

I wouldn't advise children to practice any sort of qigong. Their energy systems are still developing. 

 

[JohnC]

On 5/13/2021 at 5:33 PM, Vajra Fist said:

 

I wouldn't advise children to practice any sort of qigong. Their energy systems are still developing. 

 

To share a different opinion, Master Lin of SFQG says qigong is great for kids, and because they are young and still developing. Also if they have accumulated any blockages they work them out very quickly.

He also said, they tend to develop very quickly because of those points as well.

Edited May 17, 2021 by JohnC

[Vajra Fist]

On 17/05/2021 at 4:54 PM, JohnC said:

 

To share a different opinion, Master Lin of SFQG says qigong is great for kids, and because they are young and still developing. Also if they have accumulated any blockages they work them out very quickly.

He also said, they tend to develop very quickly because of those points as well.

 

I recall that other teachers, like Damo Mitchell recommend otherwise.

 

It's a bit like whether fasting or weight training is appropriate for children. 

 

Maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but as a parent, would you take the risk?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Vajra Fist

[Creation]

22 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

I recall that other teachers, like Damo Mitchell recommend otherwise.

Perhaps the difference can be accounted for by the different practices being taught. Having children do things that will powerfully effect their jing (neigong and neidan) vs more medically oriented systems.

[Vajra Fist]

18 hours ago, Creation said:

Perhaps the difference can be accounted for by the different practices being taught. Having children do things that will powerfully effect their jing (neigong and neidan) vs more medically oriented systems.

 

Difficult to know which system does what though. Personally, I've found xiang gong to be more powerful than anything I've ever tried before, although technically its a medical qigong. 

 

Stuff like yoga might be appropriate for children, as its more like calisthenics. But as a parent myself, I wouldn't encourage my eight-year-old to do any meditation or qigong, as that works directly on the energy system, which isn't yet fully developed in children. Each to their own though.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Vajra Fist

[小梦想]

24 minutes ago, Toni said:

Thks I will think about this. Now i am doing fragrant qi gong and am very happy about that. I don't think i can mix it with other practices but maybe in the future i will contact you

Be very careful with that practice, it's not something I would ever recommend to anyone. It seems great in the beginning, later it causes problems. There is a reason it was outlawed, more than just the large number of people it attracted.

[senseless virtue]

Just now, 小梦想 said:

Be very careful with that practice, it's not something I would ever recommend to anyone. It seems great in the beginning, later it causes problems. There is a reason it was outlawed, more than just the large number of people it attracted.

 

This is the first time that I hear someone saying anything negative about the Fragrant Qigong practice.

 

Can you please share what are your experiences with it and why you think that "it causes problems later"?

[Toni]

Lol i have been doing this for many months and i only feel better than ever. It is amazing how every week i feel better and better thks to this qigong (i practice twice every day, level 1)

Edited August 22, 2021 by Toni

[小梦想]

Just now, Toni said:

Lol i have been doing this for many months and i only feel better than ever. It is amazing how every week i feel better and better thks to this qigong (i practice twice every day, level 1)

That is great, all the best to you.

[小梦想]

10 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

This is the first time that I hear someone saying anything negative about the Fragrant Qigong practice.

 

Can you please share what are your experiences with it and why you think that "it causes problems later"?

It's not really the purpose of this thread. I don't recommend it, but if you like it and want to do it, go for it. 

[senseless virtue]

3 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

It's not really the purpose of this thread. I don't recommend it, but if you like it and want to do it, go for it. 

 

You wish to teach people. Then you have publicly issued a warning against another well-known teaching with good reputation, but the actual reasons are completely vague so far.

 

You should consider my question as a serious interview and opportunity to show your in-depth understanding and prove that you have no undue bias despite the apparent controversial stance.

[小梦想]

5 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

You wish to teach people. Then you have publicly issued a warning against another well-known teaching with good reputation, but the actual reasons are completely vague so far.

 

You should consider my question as a serious interview and opportunity to show your in-depth understanding and prove that you have no undue bias despite the apparent controversial stance.

Please create another thread or message me privately if you wish to discuss this. I only asked to not let this thread which is about teaching authentic neigong turn into a thread about fragrant qigong.

[senseless virtue]

TDB member "小梦想" has issued a warning against Fragrant Qigong practice:

 

46 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

Be very careful with that practice, it's not something I would ever recommend to anyone. It seems great in the beginning, later it causes problems. There is a reason it was outlawed, more than just the large number of people it attracted.

 

 

I asked him in return:

 

19 minutes ago, virtue said:

You wish to teach people. Then you have publicly issued a warning against another well-known teaching with good reputation, but the actual reasons are completely vague so far.

 

You should consider my question as a serious interview and opportunity to show your in-depth understanding and prove that you have no undue bias despite the apparent controversial stance.

 

小梦想 has agreed to discuss the matter in detail in a more appropriate place, so here is a long-running Fragrant Qigong discussion thread for that. Hopefully we will get in-depth explanations now.

[senseless virtue]

9 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

Please create another thread or message me privately if you wish to discuss this. I only asked to not let this thread which is about teaching authentic neigong turn into a thread about fragrant qigong.

 

The discussion could really have had merit also here, but per your request:

 

 

[小梦想]

Fragrant qigong is not meant to be practiced with anything else, it's stated to drop anything you are doing and focus solely on it. This in itself is fine, not really an issue. What it doesn't make clear is the fact that it uses qi, quite a lot of it to do the healing that it promises. 

 

Not unlike taking herbs which can drain qi to get the desired effect, like blood stasis removal formulas and the like. This means those who practice neigong, or certain qigongs, can in the long term drain their qi to dangerous levels, which can cause serious harm. Their bodies have been altered and rely on their practice and the higher levels of qi produced from practice, which when stopped and then practicing fragrant qigong, can result in big problems. Once you have drained your bodies qi to dangerous levels, a horrible cycle starts, one where the body produces less qi, can hold less qi, which results in less qi being produced and being able to hold even less qi.

 

It's not the practice itself which is the problem, but the issues which it creates from a lack of knowledge and understanding on both neigong/qigong practices and the effects they have on the practitioners body, and how fragrant qigong works. How is one to know that previous neigong or qigong can result in problems with it. There are a few videos online which shows the practice, without any real instruction or warnings, and considering how detrimental it can be to certain people, i just outright don't recommend it. I could be that someone brand new to qigong would have no ill effects from practicing it, but those who are practicing more serious practices like neigong or neidan, who then decide to move over to frangrant qigong, can injure themselves. People do like to jump from one practice to the other, or whos health status was limiting their development, could give it a try without understanding this. 

 

Because there are no warnings like this, and the understanding in the west on the physical alterations to the function of their energy system from neigong/neidan practices, result in it being a dangerous practice in my opinion. The higher your previous cultivation, the quicker you will see problems and the bigger they will be. Not to mention the charging of the water, which does not drain the qi in non cultivators, but can massively drain the qi of a cultivator. 

 

Hope this explanation is good enough for you.

[senseless virtue]

14 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

Hope this explanation is good enough for you.

 

Thank you. It's good enough for understanding your point.

 

My quick comment: You may not wish to continue the discussion, but I assure you that I will have Sifu John Dolic look at your claim and share his perspective in return. He has continually practiced this and many other Qigong styles and internal martial arts for three decades, and outside of the usual caveats (no unnatural breathing and elaborate mental focus allowed) he has mentioned no drawbacks or adverse effects whatsoever.

[小梦想]

Just now, virtue said:

 

Thank you. It's good enough for understanding your point.

 

My quick comment: You may not wish to continue the discussion, but I assure you that I will have Sifu John Dolic look at your claim and share his perspective in return. He has continually practiced this and many other Qigong styles and internal martial arts for three decades, and outside of the usual caveats (no unnatural breathing and elaborate mental focus allowed) he has mentioned no drawbacks or adverse effects whatsoever.

I don't know who he is but by all means have him give his perspective.

 

The debate about dantian function is old and long on here. I have always and still maintain my stance that dantian development cannot happen without dantian activation. Most everyone else disagrees with me on this topic so I am used to strong opposition in terms of some of the things I say. The issue might be what I consider dantian development and qi and what is widely believed in the west. 

 

Like i said in my opening post, neigong and things like reiki where you send energy or emit universal energy into someone or something is not compatible. Fragrant qigong falls into that category for me and would have been something discussed prior to teaching anything.

[Toni]

10 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

I don't know who he is but by all means have him give his perspective.

 

The debate about dantian function is old and long on here. I have always and still maintain my stance that dantian development cannot happen without dantian activation. Most everyone else disagrees with me on this topic so I am used to strong opposition in terms of some of the things I say. The issue might be what I consider dantian development and qi and what is widely believed in the west. 

 

Like i said in my opening post, neigong and things like reiki where you send energy or emit universal energy into someone or something is not compatible. Fragrant qigong falls into that category for me and would have been something discussed prior to teaching anything.

This is NOT true. Fragrant qigong is not for emiting qi nor to heal others. It just heals those who practice

[小梦想]

2 minutes ago, Toni said:

This is NOT true. Fragrant qigong is not for emiting qi nor to heal others. It just heals those who practice

Maybe double check your facts...

[Toni]

Level 1 and 2 are for self healing

[senseless virtue]

6 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

There is a reason it was outlawed, more than just the large number of people it attracted.

 

By the way, what are you referring by this? The reason you gave wouldn't affect CCP policy making for sure.

[Vajra Fist]

8 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

What it doesn't make clear is the fact that it uses qi, quite a lot of it to do the healing that it promises. 

 

Thanks for your reply, definitely an interesting perspective. Personally, I found it to massively increase my appetite in the time I practiced it. I'm very much a novice, but would appetite be related to the increased qi demands of the style on its effect on internal healing?

[senseless virtue]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:11 PM, 小梦想 said:

Like i said in my opening post, neigong and things like reiki where you send energy or emit universal energy into someone or something is not compatible. Fragrant qigong falls into that category for me and would have been something discussed prior to teaching anything.

 

I have been investigating your argument, and I am starting to think there is substance to it. Not entirely as you have put the matter, but still.

 

Qigong styles have different means of energetic operation. We have authentic Neidan styles that cultivate the Dantian, ordinary TCM compatible medical styles that stimulate meridians, spontaneous practices, and very rare methods like Flying Phoenix that tune into Samadhi states similar to Dhyana and activate powerful spinal energies akin to the Tibetan Buddhist Tummo. Maybe there is a list somewhere about how many different unique mechanisms there are among known Qigong styles?

 

You brought up "universal energy". Some styles of Qigong work by connecting with particularly strong energy fields which will interact with the environment. Fragrant Qigong is one of the most powerful ones in this type. Reiki is another type of practice that works through energy fields, even though it's often and incorrectly conceptualized as emitting energy. We can certainly see that there is no Faqi involved, therefore the authentic Reiki healing uses some other mechanism. I suspect because of the lineage presence and connection in both Fragrant and Reiki that there is some type of harmonizing Shen aspect that clears causes of illness and promotes vitality. With steady practice from the beginning, this connection would grow to become stable and intertwined with the practitioner's own energetic matrix.

 

What happens when the advanced practitioner with ample Qi tunes into the Fragrant Qigong practice for the first time? The energy field of the Fragrant Qigong starts to tune his energetic matrix to match Fragrant's unique specification and Shen resonance. Turns out that his Qi isn't already imprinted with the same quality as Fragrant's resonance would ask for, so the energetic matrix begins "pouring out" the energy which it recognizes as "unhealthy" or not having been generated or imprinted by the Fragrant practice. Therefore, the advanced practitioner unwittingly loses his correctly gained Qi.

 

This is my speculative take on the matter, but I find it a reasonable theory based on how the different Fa Shen (I can't remember if this was the term I had seen used elsewhere) mechanisms work in various Qigong styles (like Falun Gong and the vastly superior Wu Wei Qigong by George Xu).

 

Thank you 小梦想 for bringing up the matter. It's always great to learn something new about the technicalities of internal arts and thus avoiding possible pitfalls.

 

Update: I discussed with Sifu Dolic and have concluded that this theory can't be true. This often is the fruit of speculation: uselessness and vain grasping.

Edited August 26, 2021 by virtue
Update

[Toni]

Is there any way to enhance fragrant practice? Maybe training in the outside to better connect with these energy fields?