Tonglen practice: any evidence of concrete effects?

[C T]

This reference doesn't really help.

Fact-finding is off topic?

 

What am I asserting?

Why is that reference not helpful?

 

Your mission to determine whether tonglen is sutrayana or vajrayana is not relevant to this thread as such, hence a deviation could ensue, which would render this discussion unhelpful.

[RongzomFan]

Your mission to determine whether tonglen is sutrayana or vajrayana is not relevant to this thread as such, hence a deviation could ensue, which would render this discussion unhelpful.

 

I already know tonglen is Sutrayana. But some people are asserting its Vajrayana.

Edited July 18, 2013 by alwayson

[C T]

I already know tonglen is Sutrayana. But some people are asserting its Vajrayana.

This is your assertion, based on your limited understanding.

 

Any Vajrayana teacher will tell you tonglen in its relative aspect is Mahayana (or sutrayana) while in its absolute aspect is Vajrayana, because there is an entry point into fruition from the causal. Since fruition (buddhahood) is possible from assimilating this practice as part of a wider scope, it can be said to contain many elements of Vajrayana. What these elements are can be investigated by anyone who is serious to develop tonglen and make it part of their sadhana.

[RongzomFan]

This is your assertion, based on your limited understanding.

 

Any Vajrayana teacher will tell you tonglen in its relative aspect is Mahayana (or sutrayana) while in its absolute aspect is Vajrayana, because there is an entry point into fruition from the causal. Since fruition (buddhahood) is possible from assimilating this practice as part of a wider scope, it can be said to contain many elements of Vajrayana. What these elements are can be investigated by anyone who is serious to develop tonglen and make it part of their sadhana.

 

From the tantric POV, your primordial nature already has compassion and all the other magnificent qualities built-in.

 

Just recognize it.

[C T]

From the tantric POV, your primordial nature already has compassion and all the other magnificent qualities built-in.

 

Just recognize it.

Sure. Everyone knows they have the enlightening seed inside. Nurturing this is as much a part of mahayana as it is tantrayana.

 

This is a more encompassing view, which btw Vajrayana has as its essence.

[hagar]

Allthough an exegesis into Buddhist doctrine might be interesting, how about what sharing actual first-hand experience?

 

My own interest in Tonglen is not philosophical nor based any adherence to tradition. I find the actual practice in and of itself containing some universal lessons that is beyond lineage and tradition.

 

h

[RongzomFan]

I'm really tired of every other religion stealing Indo-Tibetan concepts like chakras........and now tonglen.

 

Its shameful sir.

[doc benway]

Allthough an exegesis into Buddhist doctrine might be interesting, how about what sharing actual first-hand experience?

 

My own interest in Tonglen is not philosophical nor based any adherence to tradition. I find the actual practice in and of itself containing some universal lessons that is beyond lineage and tradition.

 

h

 

The exegesis into Buddhist doctrine is what should be in the Buddhist sub-forum, I think.

 

It would be nice to focus here on the OP.

 

My good friend performs tonglen as a part of a more personalized system of healing. He can describe many success stories of folks he's helped and I've spoken to a few of them. He's not an internet type fellow, however.

 

I find tonglen to be a profoundly valuable practice for me as the practitioner. I've used it to help my daughter with very immediate results on one occasion, and with my son on another.