Microcosmic orbit and Chia.

[Priest]

I intend to cultivate energy and understand opening the microcosmic orbit is the first step.I do not have access to a qualified teacher and will have to do with books and this forum.I have already been good advice on what to do here.

 

I have some of Mantak Chia's books.I am interested in his " Iron Shirt " and " Bone Marrow " nei kung techniques.What is your opinion on them?

 

His " Awakening the Healing Energy Through the Tao " is the book i have which deals with opening the MCO.Is it a good guide? I have heard talk of his books being a little incomplete to his teachings being dangerous.Is this true?

 

What books best show how to properly and safely open the MCO and get the energy circulating? I know having personal instruction is best but i have no access to it unfortunately.

 

I want to first open the MCO and then practice his cultivation of sexual energy, Iron shirt and bone marrow stuff.Is this the correct course or is there something better i should invest time in? He sure does have a lot of books out.

 

Also are there better instructors than he?

 

Here is what i have so far http://thetaobums.com/topic/30487-hi-and-my-goals/

 

Thanks

 

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Back when I was getting into Taoist meditation and looking to get into the MCO, a review on amazon suggested to start with B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" because it teaches you how to identify and resolve blockages. Really, it gets you feeling energy in the first place, and then only after you can feel you begin manipulating it.

 

Yes, you can get the MCO going just by jumping straight into it. Yes, you can cultivate sexual energy just by jumping straight into it, and many people do. But many people also get hurt by these practices.

 

Why? In many cases because they do not know how to perceive when something has gone wrong until it has already gone wrong. What Energy Gates does is teaches you how to identify structures that will cause problems further down the line (these structures may be physical, energetic, emotional, etc) and how to resolve them before starting to add energy into the system.

 

After that, I would suggest the book "Relaxing Into Your Being". This teaches a very good practice for energizing the dantien, and then activating the Dai Mai (belt meridian). Not only will this help energize your body in general, but it will indirectly start to activate the MCO (MCO runs vertically and is intersected horizontally by your Dai Mai, basically from the level of your Dantien around your waist).

 

Still, it's kind of passive, as you let energy flow around blockages. Then, once everything is opened up, THEN start doing the MCO.

 

And then, after you're really clear, THEN start playing with sexual energies. Frantzis actually has an intro to sexual energies in his book "The Great Stillness" and a good practice for feeling and circulating sexual energy (first into the dantien through the central channel, then through the MCO and into the dantien, depending on your level). And of course he recently put out a book "Taoist Sexual Meditation" which is top notch.

 

Sorry if that took you askew on what you were asking about. IMO and in Frantzis' tradition, the MCO is good but it's not really a "starter" practice. At least, most people in modern society have a whole bunch of issues that prevent the MCO from being immediately useful. In the best case scenarios you won't get much out of it (no energy circulating) but in the worst case scenarios things are going to be messed up (a serious blockage you didn't know about until after you started stressing the system with extra energy, ESPECIALLY sexual energy).

 

Since you won't have an energetically sensitive teacher to point out when things are going bad, you are going to need to train up your energetic awareness in order to sense these things yourself, and then work up from there.

 

 

Hate to be a buzzkill but if you want a sustainable, long term, healthy energetic practice that incorporates the MCO and will actually be useful for you, the above is, in my opinion, the best way to go about it.

[joeblast]

Begin with foundational stuff. Do anapana and breathwork, realize what very significant stillness means from an experiential standpoint - being able to ground and settle the energies you work with is very important and will help avoid issues.

[Priest]

I see....from what i have read till now, Chia keeps repeating his warnings about what not to do.He also says open the 2 main channels then the other important ones and circulate it then always bring it down etc...i'll finish the book and will have an idea what to do next.

[Songtsan]

I would say that it would be useful to simply start becoming aware of the body in all its areas - not trying to do too much energy work/focusing, but simply roving around with your awareness, being curious - exploring lightly. Practice stillness and relaxation techniques. Learn to reduce the intensity of the nervous system upon demand. Relax subtle muscular tension, explore what it is like to place the conscious awareness in places other than the head. Get a general idea of the layout/structure of everything. Work on posture, breathing, contemplate your willpower. Maybe some basic 'standing post' exercises just to see what it is to hold a position in a relaxed way while keeping will strong. Study moving from your dantien, which is synonymous with your center of gravity. Also maybe experiment with some spontaneous movement in a non-attached way. Not try to resolve energy blockages, but see if you can locate anything that might be of such nature - see if you can identify unconscious muscle holding patterns - study such systems as Alexander technique, Feldenkrais, Laban movement analysis, etc. to get an idea of how movement patterns are programmed. You could also read up on the meridian systems, etc. just to get a general overview of where you will be going eventually.

[joeblast]

yup, identify signal, attenuate signal, discover how much energy all those signals were using, settle in deep equanimous stillness, bask in the light of awareness...then start the stronger stuff that moves energy around. a good cultivation regimen WILL induce changes. the foundational stuff will help integrate and assimilate those changes as smoothly as possible.

[hydrogen]

I started reading B.K. Frantzis' "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" a few years ago. I didn't get much benefit from his book then because my energy body was totally blocked. His passive water method couldn't get me started at all. I was too insensitive to notice Qi.

 

Two years ago, I started doing Kundalini yoga, It was the first time my concept of Qi came into reality after two weeks.

 

After that I went back to practice some stuff from "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body", I got some real result.

 

Everyone has different physical, energy body and mind. There isn't a "best" path.

[Branderplank]

Go read my personal blog. I also started doing the MCO, then stopped doing it. Now I only do the active exercises from www.Springforestqigong.com

 

Its true that its different strokes for different blokes. But if you put a 100 people through the same system, how many will be successful, and how many will get hurt in the process. Consider that all 100 are trying energy work by themselves, with little guidance but from books, DVD, internet.

 

The slower the better. MCO is an advanced practice! You need to feel qi first, then open blockages, and then practice MCO.

[idquest]

I see....from what i have read till now, Chia keeps repeating his warnings about what not to do.He also says open the 2 main channels then the other important ones and circulate it then always bring it down etc...i'll finish the book and will have an idea what to do next.

Opening the two channels is a good thing, who'd argue. But M. Chia is not very eloquent as to how long it might take. From very good posts above you could get that for the vast majority of practitioners we are talking about years if not decades of diligent practice. You could train your awareness along the route for MCO, but you can't shortcut the foundation training in the long run as JB, SZ, and others have put here.

[Jesse]

If you go the M. Chia route for learning the MCO don't overlook practicing the six healing sounds and inner smile first. Both of these practices help you to feel your energy and release stuck energy. I would recommend practicing the six healing sounds and inner smile practices first for 100 days and really diving deep into them. Also add a movement practice ie Tai chi chi kung, primordial qigiong, etc. Relax into each practice until you own it...don't be in a hurry and try and force anything.

[Alchemistgeorge]

"I intend to cultivate energy and understand opening the microcosmic orbit is the first step.I do not have access to a qualified teacher and will have to do with books and this forum.I have already been good advice on what to do here."

 

hmmm. As others as said, the MCO is not necessarily the first step. I very much like Tao Wizard's post about learning the six healing sounds etc. first - also part of Chia's system.

 

His " Awakening the Healing Energy Through the Tao " is the book i have which deals with opening the MCO. Is it a good guide?

 

I think its a good (but not great) book. The method he explains is safe if you observe the safety precautions. And I recommend you learn the 6HS and Inner Smile first. I learned it all in one weekend in 1987, but I had years of martial arts practice and about 6 months of zhan zhaung (standing qigong) practice as a foundation.

 

I have heard talk of his books being a little incomplete to his teachings being dangerous. Is this true?

 

OK, this is controversial. Here is my take. All Taoist practices are dangerous to varying degrees. And some of the safest practices could be dangerous to a very few certain people - I've even read an account of someone hurting themselves energetically doing Tai Chi!

 

Chia's books, are, imho, pretty well written, and the newer ones are better than the old. And he publishes openly a lot of stuff that was kept secret for a long time - often kept secret for good reasons. I've heard about and read about a bunch of people hurting themselves through qigong, some of them with Chia's material. All the cases that I personally know about involving Chia's stuff boil down to people who did not follow the instructions, did not do the pre-requisites, or ignored the safety precautions. If you spend time with google or search through the archives here you will find different opinions.

 

FWIW in the 70s & 80s if you were on the east coast and got kundalini psychosis often you get sent to Chia or Chia's students who taught you how to open the functional channel and bring the energy down to the lower dan tien and then open the MCO.

 

"I want to first open the MCO and then practice his cultivation of sexual energy, Iron shirt and bone marrow stuff.Is this the correct course or is there something better i should invest time in? He sure does have a lot of books out."

 

I think the Iron Shirt practices, done properly (without force), are quite good. Mostly they are zhan zhuang - standing qigong. I'm a huge fan of zhan zhuang (wikipedia).

 

Personally I have mixed feelings about the sexual practices - I no longer teach them because I haven't found students who (a) want to do them as an integrated part of a whole system and ( students who are willing to do the necessary (imho) daily grounding practices and meditations to stay in balance, stay grounded & rooted. I think there is a lot to say for Giles Marin's practice of having students learn the Fusion meditations before they learn the sexual practices.

 

The sexual practices - well, I think that is pretty complicated topic - better for you to know more before you decide to undertake that.

 

Bone Marrow practices are, IMHO, very powerful. I used to have before & after x-rays that showed results. I wouldn't do the weight lifting without an instructor - its not the the lifting and hitting - that is pretty easy to learn safely, but you want someone to keep an eye on you and the effect the practices have on you. Its, imho, more a question of making sure you "stay in balance." The practice is sort of intrinsically unbalancing.

 

FWIW I was a certified instructor in Chia's system although I haven't taught in 10 years.

[Priest]

Thank you all for the wisdom you have doled out.I will look at his inner smile and 6 sounds book.

 

What do you mean the before and after x rays? Did your bones thicken? Can bone marrow practice be done with calisthenics rather than weights?

 

I am small boned.Can i increase the size and strength of my skeletal structure by BM practice?

Edited July 18, 2013 by Priest

[Republic Of Zen]

Relax into each practice until you own it...don't be in a hurry and try and force anything.

 

Best advice.

[JohnC]

I don't believe the mco is advanced. It actually occurs to me as a very SLOW practice, that requires a very serious practitioner to open up unassisted(Wang li ping helps, etc).

 

Reading about the theory and practice of zhineng qigong, they create the entire body as a dantien, which is something you would do once you opened up the mco, they just skip right to it. I'm really impressed with the system and it's ability to move people cleanly and clearly to high levels.

 

John

[joeblast]

the 3 dantiens method is also slow, directly proportionate to length of breath. 12 of 'em.

Edited July 18, 2013 by joeblast

[doc benway]

A few personal thoughts about the MCO.

 

 

Before being taught the MCO, I practiced Zhan Zhuang for about a year, along with Tai Ji Quan.

My teacher won't teach the meditation until a student is established and demonstrates a certain level of dedication and integrity.

According to my teacher, the MCO is both a basic, foundation practice and a highly advanced practice.

It is the first practice we focus on (after the basic standing). After about a year of MCO practice, I was given the opportunity to learn more advanced methods, however, no matter how advanced the practice becomes, there is always more one can benefit using the MCO method.

 

My opinion and experience with Daoist methods is a bit different that most of what I read online and in books. Most resources focus on and emphasize the flow of the MCO, opening blockages, and the like. That is all well and good but the fundamental practice for me has really been about developing a very high degree of skill and accuracy in working with the 意 - Yi (mind of intent) and awareness of the internal environment. For me, it is analogous to discovering a 6th (if you are Buddhist oriented, let's say 7th) sense and learning how to utilize this in exploring the internal universe and, ultimately, the external universe (both of which are one and the same).

 

Lots of good points made in this thread but I'd like to reinforce Songstan's recommendations in particular. This is all about paying attention to your inner world in every aspect of it's existence. Learning to feel what it feels like inside your skin. Specific points and paths are valuable but somewhat arbitrary as evidenced by the wide variety of different schools and methods.

 

And, IMO, people inexplicably ignore the emotional and psychological aspects of themselves in these practices. It's fine to develop an awareness of internal energy and to create the energy body and all of that, but I think it's equally (?more) important to attend to the emotional and psychological aspects of mind. How do you feel? How do you deal with it? Why did you choose to do this over that? Why do you react this way to him and that way to her? Are your choices moving you to a place consistent with your core values, and so on...

 

The most important aspect of Daoist meditation methods is to achieve what is referred to as a tranquil mind. If you read the old scriptures, like the Nei Yeh, you will find that this is virtually identical to what is being pointed to in other systems, Dzogchen in particular. As the mind begins to settle, all sorts of repressed stuff will surface. It can be distracting, terrifying, and even dangerous. This is why a credible teacher is so critical in these practices. All of the bad stuff that comes up needs to be faced, and eventually accepted and released. I like the analogy of "making space" for these things. They may or may not leave but we can find room for them, make peace with them (or at least a truce), and generally they lose their power.

 

I've never used any of Chia's methods, so I can't comment on him. I've read a few of Bruce Frantzis' books and his basic methods are sound. That said, based on what is written in some of his books, I don't think he has a more than a superficial understanding of the "fire" methods, which includes the MCO.

Edited May 9, 2014 by steve

[JohnC]

Slow? Perhaps divine timing plays a part too?

 

What I've heard about Wang Liping is interesting. But the opening need not be greatly painful. In my case, without seeking the opening of the MCO, my daily Stillness-Movement practice allowed it to unfold spontaneously. And what a joyful experience those first MCO flows were.

 

I don't mean via stillness movement which isn't microcosmic orbit (xiao zhou tian). Stillness movement continues past the mco, as much as I understand of it. But opening the mco is a step on the path while practicing stillness movement.

 

The practice of the microcosmic orbit, in what I've seen takes forrreeever and many never accomplish it. Aka moving your awarness through the channels, which then clears obstructions.

 

John

[Priest]

zhineng qigong - Is this what i should do first?

 

IF MCO takes so much time, can i start iron shirt now in parallel? I understand there is no fixed path.But everyone seems to say feel the energy first...which ways can i use to do this?

 

I will give Chia's inner smile and 6 sounds a shot..but is there a more sure way?

[ChiDragon]

zhineng qigong - Is this what i should do first?

 

IF MCO takes so much time, can i start iron shirt now in parallel? I understand there is no fixed path.But everyone seems to say feel the energy first...which ways can i use to do this?

 

I will give Chia's inner smile and 6 sounds a shot..but is there a more sure way?

 

Please get a thorough understanding of what Chi Kung is all about first. People might tell you something in the middle and give you bunch of run around. Start with the basic fundamental concept.

Edited July 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[JohnC]

zhineng qigong - Is this what i should do first?

 

IF MCO takes so much time, can i start iron shirt now in parallel? I understand there is no fixed path.But everyone seems to say feel the energy first...which ways can i use to do this?

 

I will give Chia's inner smile and 6 sounds a shot..but is there a more sure way?

MCO can move you forward... I'd find what you are drawn to. I've just seen many more effective practices, and in America there aren't many that have actually opened their mco to be able to speak about it, and levels beyond it. It is a powerful practice though.

 

Zhineng(chilel) qigong is a system I'm amazed by that also has opening the mco as an marker of progress within it, just opening the mco isn't it's aim. And the moving awareness over the mco to open it can take a long time. Here is an interview with it's developer, who learned from a number of masters and created his own qigong.

 

It depends what you want, and move towards that. I want to point out though, any solid qigong will have it's practictioners showing markers of progress quickly, and you can usually see them in the students of the teacher. Not this 'develop a dantien in 10 years!' bs.

 

Way of the tao, spring forest, zhineng, hunyaun are all really solid qigongs that I'm impressed by. All of these actually seem to be related, in some way, and draw energy from the surroundings, and progress the practitioner quickly and gently.

Nei yang gong also seems to be really impressive.... but I haven't practiced it nor do I know of anyone.

 

Foundational stuff though to get a good feel would be zhan zhuang, and you can learn all about it from Master Lam's channel here http://www.youtube.com/user/StandStillBeFit. From there let your gut guide you .

 

John

Edited July 19, 2013 by JohnC

[JohnC]

Based on your goals, you can pick any one of the qigong's I've listed and they will help you on your way.

[Priest]

SO i should focus on feeling the energy.And if what i am doing is correct i should see results fairly quickly?

[Priest]

Is this a good book?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Life-More-Abundant-Principles-Practices/dp/0741400731

[JohnC]

I liked it.

[Priest]

I understand it is written by the founder of the zhineng qi gong and therefore should have most of the principles.Did that book help you with your practice ie get you to feel the energy and make good progress?