Microcosmic orbit and Chia.

[JohnC]

It helped me with understanding of Qi in general and furthering my understanding of qigong in general. It has solid details, and from a master that has studied deeply many systems. As a book to start you off, I think it's a good one and waaay better than most.

 

John

[Priest]

I see.Thank you.How long did it take you to make noticeable progress with this book?

[JohnC]

The book will help you understand and show you options, but is a supplement to a video showing you how to actually do the movements and the like. It's all over the internet too.

 

When I was doing zhineng I progressed quickly.

 

John

[Songtsan]

I still think its safe enough to practice some non-ejaculation/non-orgasm techniques to see what it is like to build up your libido, etc. Just be aware of avoiding congestion of fluids, mainly due to build up of prostate fluids, and congestion in the epididymis. Try going 2 weeks and seeing what the Yang chi in the head is like, then release (i.e. orgasm/ejaculate) a time or two and start over again. The chances of getting Yang energy stuck in head are small from what I have researched, as long as you release occasionally and focus on grounding the energy at all times

[Priest]

Thanks to the both of you.

[DiamonD]

Way of the tao, spring forest, zhineng, hunyaun are all really solid qigongs that I'm impressed by. All of these actually seem to be related, in some way, and draw energy from the surroundings, and progress the practitioner quickly and gently.

Nei yang gong also seems to be really impressive.... but I haven't practiced it nor do I know of anyone.

is "way of the tao" = gift of the tao?

[JohnC]

is "way of the tao" = gift of the tao?

ah.. yea . Typo...

 

John

[Ya Mu]

Slow? Perhaps divine timing plays a part too?

 

What I've heard about Wang Liping is interesting. But the opening need not be greatly painful. In my case, without seeking the opening of the MCO, my daily Stillness-Movement practice allowed it to unfold spontaneously. And what a joyful experience those first MCO flows were.

One problem many folks have run into is to start a "MCO" practice without first doing anything to learn stillness for themselves or even to basically feel the qi. Best to first build Dan Tian so there is actual qi instead of just imagination going through the channels. Without doing this first the qi that does go through the channels can easily become stuck leading to pain and other physical problems. I have physically and energetically worked on my fair share of practitioners who did this.

 

In Stillness-Movement and Gift of the Tao practices ALL the orbits open naturally and gracefully.

[Trunk]

Best to first build Dan Tian ...

 

Yup.

 

In addition to the reasons mentioned above:

If a lower dan tien (LDT) method is not established first as foundational, often people use the mco to avoid the energetics of the lower abdomen. Energy just gets shuttled out of the lower abdomen as a primary solution to build-up there and so true resolution within the LDT doesn't get sufficiently developed. That mistaken approach leads to stubborn troubles down the line.

[hydrogen]

Yup.

 

In addition to the reasons mentioned above:

If a lower dan tien (LDT) method is not established first as foundational, often people use the mco to avoid the energetics of the lower abdomen. Energy just gets shuttled out of the lower abdomen as a primary solution to build-up there and so true resolution within the LDT doesn't get sufficiently developed. That mistaken approach leads to stubborn troubles down the line.

 

How do you know the LDT is established? Is there anyway to check it? Thanks.

[Trunk]

How do you know the LDT is established?

 

What an actual functioning LDT *is*, the parts n' mechanics of it, the methods and steps and remedial corrections ... that thar is a considerable topic in itself and there are varying pts of view. Just to be general, assume that acupoints, the mysterious pass, the breath and stabalized attention are all involved. I don't consider that I have the last word on what it is/isn't. Deep topic.

 

I think that Master Kim (of Sun Do) gave the best simplest ideal for LDT breathing that I've heard, ... imho it doesn't communicate the deepest mystery of the LDT but does address the critical level of basic health, "SILK BREATHING". That is, the LDT breath is steady, at a moderate pace, and smooth ~ as if running your hand along silk. There is not any unevenness nor rough tension. That's the ideal that you want to work towards.

 

I'd say that the ideal of "silk breathing" could be well applied to LDT breathing methods in general. Different LDT breathing methods, different schools. Often the breathing methods are simple and applied as a main portion of daily practice.

 

back to your ? ... I won't presume to assess whether someone's "lower dan tien" proper is established, but I'd say that if your LDT breathing is flowing like silk, then you are at least in healthy territory.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Trunk

[Songtsan]

In reference to the above post, does that mean that there should be no muscle tensions in the area of the diaphragm, abdominal muscles, etc.? With the 'silk breath' that is....

 

I was given to understand that Mantak Chia always started the MCO practice at the Dantien, and at first, for weeks to months, the practitioner would only focus on LDT in order to gain direct awareness of it. Are you guys suggesting that this isn't enough?

 

I do remember him suggesting that if you have been practicing MCO for some time starting at LDT, that even if you haven't directly perceived it there, you start to move downwards, that the LDT would be significantly opened simply from the continual focus there.

 

Interested in hearing more about your views.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Songtsan

[Trunk]

People vary.

Yeah, ok, fundamentals are the same but

Saying that a single method will produce sufficient results in all people; it's just not realistic.

People vary.

 

Think of it terms of something as relatively simple as an automobile. What work would it take to get "automobile x" running well? Well, obviously, that depends... WHICH automobile? What has that auto been through?

 

 

As I've mentioned before, that someone might be young and athletic in a western sense does not give good measurement of where they are in terms of the internal arts.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Trunk

[Songtsan]

People vary.

Yeah, ok, fundamentals are the same but

Saying that a single method will produce sufficient results in all people; it's just not realistic.

People vary.

 

Think of it terms of something as relatively simple as an automobile. What work would it take to get "automobile x" running well? Well, obviously, that depends... WHICH automobile? What has that auto been through?

 

good point...

[joeblast]

In reference to the above post, does that mean that there should be no muscle tensions in the area of the diaphragm, abdominal muscles, etc.? With the 'silk breath' that is....

 

I was given to understand that Mantak Chia always started the MCO practice at the Dantien, and at first, for weeks to months, the practitioner would only focus on LDT in order to gain direct awareness of it. Are you guys suggesting that this isn't enough?

 

I do remember him suggesting that if you have been practicing MCO for some time starting at LDT, that even if you haven't directly perceived it there, you start to move downwards, that the LDT would be significantly opened simply from the continual focus there.

 

Interested in hearing more about your views.

read my breathstuffz again identify and attenuate the signals, in harmonizing, the energetic culminations of superlatively smoothed processes meet and wait, where'd that come from?

[Songtsan]

read my breathstuffz again identify and attenuate the signals, in harmonizing, the energetic culminations of superlatively smoothed processes meet and wait, where'd that come from?

 

I still have yet to read all your stuff - its on my list of things to do - seriously - I have a hand written list and its on there!

[Vitalii]

If you want to practice the real Daoist Small Celestial Circulation, you need to do many things:

- to study “methods of building the foundation” (basic breathing techniques and other methods, which can help to improve the circulation of Qi)

- to study the method of transformation from ussual dantian into alchemical dantian; to make dantian integral and structurised

- to accumulate ussual [Post-Heaven] Qi and then find and feel original [Pre-Heven] Qi etc.

Also you need a deep understanding of Daoist theory.

Now, many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

If a person uses Post-Heaven Qi, it is not a Small Celestial circulation, but only circulation of Qi in the Du mai and the Ren mai.

If a person uses Pre-Heven Qi and understands alchemical processes, it is a real Small Celestial circulation.

[ChiDragon]

 

If you want to practice the real Daoist Small Celestial Circulation, you need to do many things:

- to study “methods of building the foundation” (basic breathing techniques and other methods, which can help to improve the circulation of Qi)

Absolutely. Not many people aware of this: the basic breathing techniques as a good starting foundation to begin with.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

 

Now, many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

This part is uncertain, some people said under this condition was considered to be the Big Celestial Circulation or Macrocosmic Orbit. People also speculate that Chi circulate in both directions, clockwise or counterclockwise. However, learning the basic breathing technique was considered to be the Small Celestial Circulation or Microcosmic Orbit. Indeed, all these hypothesis are not verifiable.

What works was the breathing that took place to make things work the way as they are.

Edited July 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

[Uroboros]

Snoop D O Double G say's - Don't do it, kids!

Edited July 24, 2013 by Uroboros

[billb]

 

If you want to practice the real Daoist Small Celestial Circulation, you need to do many things:

- to study “methods of building the foundation” (basic breathing techniques and other methods, which can help to improve the circulation of Qi)

- to study the method of transformation from ussual dantian into alchemical dantian; to make dantian integral and structurised

- to accumulate ussual [Post-Heaven] Qi and then find and feel original [Pre-Heven] Qi etc.

Also you need a deep understanding of Daoist theory.

Now, many people consider if Qi raises up in the Du mai and drops down in the Ren mai, it is a Small Celestial circulation. However, this is not true.

If a person uses Post-Heaven Qi, it is not a Small Celestial circulation, but only circulation of Qi in the Du mai and the Ren mai.

If a person uses Pre-Heven Qi and understands alchemical processes, it is a real Small Celestial circulation.

How can we tell whether or not we are using post-heaven chi or pre-heaven chi? This is starting to sound like an impossible dream. How many people here can actually feel these 2 types of chi's, tell the difference and circulate both?

[Vitalii]

How can we tell whether or not we are using post-heaven chi or pre-heaven chi? This is starting to sound like an impossible dream. How many people here can actually feel these 2 types of chi's, tell the difference and circulate both?

 

I can not describe all the details of practice here on the forum, because there are certain nuances that should be transfered individually.

Methods, which allow us to understand an exact difference, are studied on the 1st level in the School Zhen Dao. Also, before working with original Qi, you need to learn the "methods of building the foundation", and you need to have a deep understanding of Daoist theory.

From my personal experience I can say that there really is a difference, and that it is significant, and practices of original Qi can be obtained only from the Teacher, but not from books or forums.

[ChiDragon]

How can we tell whether or not we are using post-heaven chi or pre-heaven chi? This is starting to sound like an impossible dream. How many people here can actually feel these 2 types of chi's, tell the difference and circulate both?

 

Both Chi, post-heaven(postnatal) chi and pre-heaven(prenatal) chi, are TCM terms. If one wants to cultivate the Chi in Chi Kung, one must distinguish the definitions from this Chi to that Chi. Just beware of that there are three Chi's here in this thread excluding others.

Edited July 29, 2013 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

*blathers nonsensically, not saying much of any use or really relating to the terms being discussed here*

 

CD, go find a teacher instead of learning all of this stuff from books and your own translations of text.