Achieving Sing in Spine

[Kiwi Ninja]

Hey guys,

 

I do a style of Wing Chun that places enormous importance on achieving sing in the spine. This apparently feels like an expansion in the spine or expansion between each vertibrae. Apparently an internal contraction near the anus is also required although it is not supposed to result in any physical muscular tension.

 

The prescribed way to achieve this is hours and hours of standing practice. Imagining that the spine is being pulled up while letting your muscles hang relaxed. Its a state that apparently you will know when you have it. And things really get going in your training once you have got it.

 

I am wondering if anyone has achieved this and how they got there. Also if there is a streamline approach. I know a family member who is a yoga instructor who says she has it and it took her years to get. I also heard from another yoga teacher that what I described sounded like kundalini activation.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's a hard journey and I am never quite sure if I am practicing right or if there is a more efficient way to get there.

 

Thanks!

 

[joeblast]

sing? sang...sung? I think you mean sung, the relaxation of sorts? singing's just hitting notes to me

[Chang]

sing? sang...sung? I think you mean sung, the relaxation of sorts? singing's just hitting notes to me

Yes I suspect that "sung" is what is meant. This is a state of energised cat like relaxation where there is only as much tension in the muscles to perform the required action and no more.

 

This is one of the aims of standing practice where one tucks the sacrum and draws back the chin so as to lengthen and correctly align the spine. It is then a case of allowing the muscles to relax.

 

It is one thing to bring about a state of sung whilst stationary but ultimately we must evolve so that we can retain the state in motion. Once we have achieved this our movements will become more fluid and also faster.

[joeblast]

one of the key things that helped my zhan zhuang was pretty much completely relaxing the ankles. of course in wing chung goat stance its a little easier to forget about 'em since the turning-in naturally provides more tension just by virtue of the stance, but when you straighten out the feet pointing forward, this becomes relevant.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Sitting meditation will speed up your progress immeasurably.

 

If it's not something you're interested in, then I won't argue, but at least tell yourself it's a powerful catalyst and do it anyway.

 

I highly recommend getting The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace.

[Kiwi Ninja]

Oh "Sung", ok noted.

 

Yes Chang that is exactly right. You must be onto it cause it wasn't until recently that a new wing chun instructor told me how important it is to pull the chin in to help raise the top of the head and I think raise the spine. Yeah, in movement is the ultimate goal I think. The other thing have Sung is supposed to do (I am told) is open the shoulder joints.

 

Hey Zhang - will experiment with ankles. We dont necessarily have to have the toes pointing in WC. Sometimes I practice with feet parellel.

 

Seeker of Self: I haven't been diligent enough in practicing meditation, but on the times where I have before practicing I have noticed improved ability to guide my arm motions with mind so that the arm almost feels like it is moving on its own. I guess the meditation must quiet the mind and relax the body. Ive been meaning to get into a routine of sitting mediation before practice to enhance this effect. On the few times I have tried to apply it to standing practice, it wasnt as effective, but then again I haven't been consistent so will revisit this.

[Trunk]

short cut: Bagua circle walking is the single best spine exercise I've ever tried.

[joeblast]

indeed, only to be topped by xing shen zhuang for me, since I spent years beating the hell out of it growing up

[doc benway]

Hey guys,

 

I do a style of Wing Chun that places enormous importance on achieving sing in the spine. This apparently feels like an expansion in the spine or expansion between each vertibrae. Apparently an internal contraction near the anus is also required although it is not supposed to result in any physical muscular tension.

 

The prescribed way to achieve this is hours and hours of standing practice. Imagining that the spine is being pulled up while letting your muscles hang relaxed. Its a state that apparently you will know when you have it. And things really get going in your training once you have got it.

 

I am wondering if anyone has achieved this and how they got there. Also if there is a streamline approach. I know a family member who is a yoga instructor who says she has it and it took her years to get. I also heard from another yoga teacher that what I described sounded like kundalini activation.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's a hard journey and I am never quite sure if I am practicing right or if there is a more efficient way to get there.

 

Thanks!

 

The Chinese character is 鬆 and the pinyin is sōng. The word means relaxed or loose but be very careful, it does not mean flaccid. It implies flexibility but also structure. Maximum song does not mean total flaccidity. Song is about finding the right balance between exertion and relaxation that allows maintenance of proper posture with a minimal use of physical force. At the same time it is a very active and 'alive' feeling, it reacts to change to maintain that proper balance. When done properly, there is a feeling of continuity, of wholeness of the structure. If one part moves, the entire structure is aware and accurately adjusts. It sort of is like a flow but don't get distracted with concepts like energy and kunalini and so on. Just practice the method, feel what there is to feel, don't add anything to that conceptually. Don't name it. Just remain with it, observe it, and feel what it is like to be inside yourself in this manner. After beginning to feel it while stationary, it will then be brought into movement and then into martial practice, if you are a martial artist.

 

It is a subtle and elusive skill that will ONLY reveal itself with proper practice over time. If your teacher has prescribed a method, I'd suggest that you avoid the temptation to look for short cuts from strangers on the web. Trust your teacher and his/her method. Wing Chun is one of the more efficient and rapid training methods among Chinese martial arts but skills like song and ting (listening) and fa (issuing) cannot be rushed.

 

All that said, I'm happy to offer some support and advice. Yes, I've achieved this and I got there through a number of practices but the most important foundation practice, by far, is standing meditation. It will not happen quickly and if you have serious interest in practices like Chinese martial arts, qigong, and meditation, it is well worth the time spent.

 

A few suggestions -

1. Most people exaggerate the posture in the beginning. All instructions and adjustments should be subtle. The basic instructions I often give are -

a. Gently lift the crown of the head (as if by a fine thread pulling upward)

b. This allows the neck to lengthen and the chin to tuck (very slightly)

c. relax the shoulders, and chest, and allow the back to open and expand slightly - often called sink the chest and pluck up the back

d. Allow the lower spine to elongate and relax, causing the pelvis to rotate under (tail bone curls under) very slightly. This will cause a potential feeling of contraction in the pelvic floor muscles (you referred to the anus), but make sure it is light and comfortable.

e. Allow the knee to be very slightly and comfortably bent

f. Feel the feet fully engaged with the ground

g. Feel yourself extend both upward, through the crown of the head, and downward, through the feet

h. Allow yourself to rest between heaven and earth, balanced, supported, floating, effortless

i. Attend to the thoughts, watch as they come and go without identifying with them, fighting against them, or getting carried away

j. Attend to the feel within the body and periodically adjust the posture

k. ALlow the breath to breath itself naturally - for most folks this will be an abdominal breathing pattern

 

2. Be patient! Start with 5 minutes a day and gradually increase the time spent. With practice it is possible to stand for 30 - 60 minutes or more. It will be difficult at first. Over time you will begin to feel proper alignment. Then you can bring that into all of your practice, even moving. After standing meditation, pushing hands exercises in Taijiquan are a wonderful way to further clarify and develop skill with song. So are things like walking the circle in bagua and, in wing chun, sticking hands and feet practice.

 

Enjoy!

[doc benway]

Seeker of Self: I haven't been diligent enough in practicing meditation, but on the times where I have before practicing I have noticed improved ability to guide my arm motions with mind so that the arm almost feels like it is moving on its own. I guess the meditation must quiet the mind and relax the body. Ive been meaning to get into a routine of sitting mediation before practice to enhance this effect. On the few times I have tried to apply it to standing practice, it wasnt as effective, but then again I haven't been consistent so will revisit this.

 

WIth due respect to other recommendations, my approach would be that if you don't already have a regular sitting meditation practice established, just focus on the standing for a while.Whether you're sitting or standing, the mind will be chattering away. Regardless of posture, you will necessarily begin to experience and explore meditation territory (that is, how do I deal with the thinker and all of those distracting thoughts). Standing is a bit easier because awareness has the posture to attend to. Once you take that away and substitute a stable sitting posture, there is nothing but the mind to deal with and that is much more challenging. Definitely something worth getting into, but I think standing is a good initiation, if you will.

[hydrogen]

A few suggestions -

1. Most people exaggerate the posture in the beginning. All instructions and adjustments should be subtle. The basic instructions I often give are -

a. Gently lift the crown of the head (as if by a fine thread pulling upward)

b. This allows the neck to lengthen and the chin to tuck (very slightly)

c. relax the shoulders, and chest, and allow the back to open and expand slightly - often called sink the chest and pluck up the back

d. Allow the lower spine to elongate and relax, causing the pelvis to rotate under (tail bone curls under) very slightly. This will cause a potential feeling of contraction in the pelvic floor muscles (you referred to the anus), but make sure it is light and comfortable.

e. Allow the knee to be very slightly and comfortably bent

f. Feel the feet fully engaged with the ground

g. Feel yourself extend both upward, through the crown of the head, and downward, through the feet

h. Allow yourself to rest between heaven and earth, balanced, supported, floating, effortless

i. Attend to the thoughts, watch as they come and go without identifying with them, fighting against them, or getting carried away

j. Attend to the feel within the body and periodically adjust the posture

k. ALlow the breath to breath itself naturally - for most folks this will be an abdominal breathing pattern

 

Very good description.

 

I'm not very flexible and have some blockages. I can't get into the "perfect" position in a static posture. I don't have a teacher to correct my posture either. I figured out a few methods to do self checking.

 

Shaking. From coarse to fine depending on situation. The vigorous pump to move all the major muscle at the same time. The light finger shake to check the meridian channels.

 

Skin tention. I don't know exactly how to put into words. I just regard my skin like the membrane on a drum. The tension has to be just right. I start with my feet to tighten my skin in a spiral fasion up to my head. If both my feet go in the same clockwise direction, then my torso would be one rotating piece like rotating belt channel spiral upward. If my two feet go different direction, I split my toro in half, i.e. I move my left ribcase and right ribcase individually.

 

Mirror. If I can be real still for long enough. My image in the mirror will disappear or very faint. Some minor adjustment and "good" movement won't change that. A "bad" movement or thought will make the image back to solid instantly.

[doc benway]

Very good description.

 

I'm not very flexible and have some blockages. I can't get into the "perfect" position in a static posture. I don't have a teacher to correct my posture either. I figured out a few methods to do self checking.

 

Shaking. From coarse to fine depending on situation. The vigorous pump to move all the major muscle at the same time. The light finger shake to check the meridian channels.

 

Skin tention. I don't know exactly how to put into words. I just regard my skin like the membrane on a drum. The tension has to be just right. I start with my feet to tighten my skin in a spiral fasion up to my head. If both my feet go in the same clockwise direction, then my torso would be one rotating piece like rotating belt channel spiral upward. If my two feet go different direction, I split my toro in half, i.e. I move my left ribcase and right ribcase individually.

 

Mirror. If I can be real still for long enough. My image in the mirror will disappear or very faint. Some minor adjustment and "good" movement won't change that. A "bad" movement or thought will make the image back to solid instantly.

 

 

 

I really like your comments about skin tension. I know exactly what you mean. For me it is almost like an entropic process and yet there is a definite organization. I've never really thought much about it as such or put it into words but it's like the tension and sensation throughout the skin and cutaneous nervous system finds an equilibrium, just as the musculoskeletal system and fascial system do. And there are a LOT of kinks to work out. And you can follow that equilibrium through so many layers and levels, depending on your paradigm and custom (anatomical, physiological, energetic, emotional, psychological, etc...)

[mYTHmAKER]

The Chinese character is 鬆 and the pinyin is sōng. The word means relaxed or loose but be very careful, it does not mean flaccid. It implies flexibility but also structure. Maximum song does not mean total flaccidity. Song is about finding the right balance between exertion and relaxation that allows maintenance of proper posture with a minimal use of physical force. At the same time it is a very active and 'alive' feeling, it reacts to change to maintain that proper balance. When done properly, there is a feeling of continuity, of wholeness of the structure. If one part moves, the entire structure is aware and accurately adjusts. It sort of is like a flow but don't get distracted with concepts like energy and kunalini and so on. Just practice the method, feel what there is to feel, don't add anything to that conceptually. Don't name it. Just remain with it, observe it, and feel what it is like to be inside yourself in this manner. After beginning to feel it while stationary, it will then be brought into movement and then into martial practice, if you are a martial artist.

 

It is a subtle and elusive skill that will ONLY reveal itself with proper practice over time. If your teacher has prescribed a method, I'd suggest that you avoid the temptation to look for short cuts from strangers on the web. Trust your teacher and his/her method. Wing Chun is one of the more efficient and rapid training methods among Chinese martial arts but skills like song and ting (listening) and fa (issuing) cannot be rushed.

 

All that said, I'm happy to offer some support and advice. Yes, I've achieved this and I got there through a number of practices but the most important foundation practice, by far, is standing meditation. It will not happen quickly and if you have serious interest in practices like Chinese martial arts, qigong, and meditation, it is well worth the time spent.

 

A few suggestions -

1. Most people exaggerate the posture in the beginning. All instructions and adjustments should be subtle. The basic instructions I often give are -

a. Gently lift the crown of the head (as if by a fine thread pulling upward)

b. This allows the neck to lengthen and the chin to tuck (very slightly)

c. relax the shoulders, and chest, and allow the back to open and expand slightly - often called sink the chest and pluck up the back

d. Allow the lower spine to elongate and relax, causing the pelvis to rotate under (tail bone curls under) very slightly. This will cause a potential feeling of contraction in the pelvic floor muscles (you referred to the anus), but make sure it is light and comfortable.

e. Allow the knee to be very slightly and comfortably bent

f. Feel the feet fully engaged with the ground

g. Feel yourself extend both upward, through the crown of the head, and downward, through the feet

h. Allow yourself to rest between heaven and earth, balanced, supported, floating, effortless

i. Attend to the thoughts, watch as they come and go without identifying with them, fighting against them, or getting carried away

j. Attend to the feel within the body and periodically adjust the posture

k. ALlow the breath to breath itself naturally - for most folks this will be an abdominal breathing pattern

 

2. Be patient! Start with 5 minutes a day and gradually increase the time spent. With practice it is possible to stand for 30 - 60 minutes or more. It will be difficult at first. Over time you will begin to feel proper alignment. Then you can bring that into all of your practice, even moving. After standing meditation, pushing hands exercises in Taijiquan are a wonderful way to further clarify and develop skill with song. So are things like walking the circle in bagua and, in wing chun, sticking hands and feet practice.

 

Enjoy!

Very nice. You didn't mention what you do with your eyes - open - closed - partial gaze

I keep my eyes closed

[dwai]

Also IMHO each step towards sung seems like "I got it now" only to discover that "I've a long ways to go still"...my teacher who has been doing taiji for 30+ years still if finds layers to peel off and "sung" more. So I think it's always work in progress. No need to rush, it will happen when it does.

[doc benway]

Very nice. You didn't mention what you do with your eyes - open - closed - partial gaze

I keep my eyes closed

What to do with the eyes is a very good question. I've gone through phases with that.

My teacher has always advocated that the eyes should be open but soft and relaxed - for Taiji, standing, and sitting.

Not focused on anything external in meditation.

For many years I would close my eyes and it worked well for me.

Over the past few years, however, I've taken to following my teacher's recommendation.

Now I feel that the open eyes helps keep me more alert and engaged with awareness.

At the same time, I am able to disengage from the visual input and it has a similar effect on the other senses, including thought.

[joeblast]

bringing the focus of awareness in to the niwan, when enhanced enough, arresting the energypotential available to the senses/cranial nerves (four of which are to the eyes) slight eye cross, sets the push-pull configuration of the eye muscles into a good state of balance...when properly focused (the awarenss, @ the niwan,) the eyes will not feel like they are too much on one side of the push-pull equation.

 

gently, of course

Edited July 25, 2013 by joeblast

[dwai]

bringing the focus of awareness in to the niwan, when enhanced enough, arresting the energypotential available to the senses/cranial nerves (four of which are to the eyes) slight eye cross, sets the push-pull configuration of the eye muscles into a good state of balance...when properly focused (the awarenss, @ the niwan,) the eyes will not feel like they are too much on one side of the push-pull equation.

 

gently, of course

My teacher suggested the following to me during single form practice. Open eyes gradually as form opens (eg rising up in beginning form open he eyes gradually) and close eyes gradually as form closes ( so begng form sinking close eyes gradually).

 

This interplay was very interesting because it made the yin-yang interplay palpable for me. A light in the distance was used so as eyes open they gather the light and as they closed they drew the light in. And the opening closing of the form synchronized with the gathering and sinking of the light resulted in he Dan tian taking on the property of a light filled org that was filling with the light during rising till it reached its natural max and then reversed around and started contracting (form sinking) back into LDT.

 

The dynamic tension between yang on the inside, yin on outside converting to yin on inside, yang on outside was never more pronounced than that.

[dwai]

Also IMHO each step towards sung seems like "I got it now" only to discover that "I've a long ways to go still"...my teacher who has been doing taiji for 30+ years still if finds layers to peel off and "sung" more. So I think it's always work in progress. No need to rush, it will happen when it does.

Also thought I'd add that only way to know how "sung" you are is to practice push hands with someone who is far more "sung".

Pushing hands with my teacher is like pushing against a mist at times and yet other times it is like pushing against a pillar of steel. When it is like that, it isn't as though there is any muscular tension, it's just that yielding kind of strength, very deceptively so. That way, there is a measure of at least how much farther i've got to go...

Edited July 26, 2013 by dwai

[doc benway]

Also thought I'd add that only way to know how "sung" you are is to practice push hands with someone who is far more "sung".

Pushing hands with my teacher is like pushing against a mist at times and yet other times it is like pushing against a pillar of steel. When it is like that, it isn't as though there is any muscular tension, it's just that yielding kind of strength, very deceptively so. That way, there is a measure of at least how much farther i've got to go...

 

I didn't get into to pushing hands discussion because the OP is a wing chun practitioner but I agree with this 100%.

I'll never forget pushing with an advanced player who taught me what it means to be like water, like wind, like a mountain, and so on, through tui shou. I remember have an epiphany while pushing with him and getting this huge smile on my face as we were pushing that I couldn't shake off.

 

I also want to mention that the experience of song can't really be limited to the spine or any other body part. Song is a package deal. It is an expression of the linking together of the limbs through the joints, connecting finger tip to the ground and bai hui to the hui yin and everything in between. When one point is disturbed, the whole system adjusts. If all points are not equally connected, aware, and alive, there is a deficit in song.

[Bearded Dragon]

Hey guys,

 

I do a style of Wing Chun that places enormous importance on achieving sing in the spine. This apparently feels like an expansion in the spine or expansion between each vertibrae. Apparently an internal contraction near the anus is also required although it is not supposed to result in any physical muscular tension.

 

The prescribed way to achieve this is hours and hours of standing practice. Imagining that the spine is being pulled up while letting your muscles hang relaxed. Its a state that apparently you will know when you have it. And things really get going in your training once you have got it.

 

I am wondering if anyone has achieved this and how they got there. Also if there is a streamline approach. I know a family member who is a yoga instructor who says she has it and it took her years to get. I also heard from another yoga teacher that what I described sounded like kundalini activation.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's a hard journey and I am never quite sure if I am practicing right or if there is a more efficient way to get there.

 

Thanks!

 

Sing (升) is just Cantonese for raise/ascend. The mandarin term would be Sheng. If someone was telling you to raise energy up your spine then they would use this term. Nothing too fancy here but it's also used to define a state where the raising and relaxing really kicks in. Those who have experienced it have described it as a profound awareness and a continuous expansion from the spine outwards.

 

You can't really get it until you get the "song" idea of letting go, but then again you need a certain amount of raising to have the structure to allow the letting go to take place. I was told that once you can let go it's like everything drops to your feet and you feel really heavy (sort of getting there myself, slowly and in disjointed parts), then after that you can take it somewhere such that you feel like you're really light or floating. I believe that part is balancing the sinking with raising. If you skip the first part you won't have a whole body connection which is absolutely required.

 

There are no shortcuts but there are some things you can keep in mind.

 

Firstly, don't pull your head back. This will just create tension. You can slightly draw your chin in, but most of it is done through raising the spine. If you have a piece of string in an S shape and you pull it taut it will go straight. Same idea to get your neck in place if it is not already.

 

Secondly, don't force your tailbone forward. The tucking of the tailbone is done through the momentum of a wave of relaxation coming down your back. It drops down and then curls forward slightly. You can think of sitting on a bar stool or just imagine your hips reverse rotating. Your whole pelvis actually drops which creates space around your midriff area (while your head stays in the same place of course). You can think of the front of your hips as pretty much staying where they are. A lot of people just squat (which is not what you're looking for) but you can do it standing upright without bending your knees much at all, and in fact it's perhaps better to do it this way as you have better feedback as to whether you're doing it right. Either that or start with a bit of a squat and try and stand up straight while staying relaxed with the tailbone dropped.

 

The hard part for most people (me included) is the thoracic part of the spine. This kind of wants to draw inwards while the chest also wants to draw inwards. I haven't really figured this one out just yet.

 

THEN once all that is set up your spine will perhaps be open enough to raise energy properly. I know when my instructors get me in the right alignment I can raise a lot more and do things rather effortlessly. Can't do it by myself yet though.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Bearded Dragon

[mYTHmAKER]

 

 

I also want to mention that the experience of song can't really be limited to the spine or any other body part. Song is a package deal. It is an expression of the linking together of the limbs through the joints, connecting finger tip to the ground and bai hui to the hui yin and everything in between. When one point is disturbed, the whole system adjusts. If all points are not equally connected, aware, and alive, there is a deficit in song.

Also ones eyes and mind must be song

[hydrogen]

Also ones eyes and mind must be song

 

Well at it, ones ears must be song too.

 

In the "Secret of the Golden Flower", it says to steady outer yin/yang with eyes and inner yin/yang with ears. I don't know exactly what it means.

 

However, I do a few routines of gether the sound near and far with my ears, and scan 360 degree in three directions.

[joeblast]

still the breath until you cant hear it...then try some earplugs and still it further until you cant hear it....then submerge your head in the bathtub and work until you cant hear it...

[doc benway]

 

 

The hard part for most people (me included) is the thoracic part of the spine. This kind of wants to draw inwards while the chest also wants to draw inwards. I haven't really figured this one out just yet.

 

THEN once all that is set up your spine will perhaps be open enough to raise energy properly. I know when my instructors get me in the right alignment I can raise a lot more and do things rather effortlessly. Can't do it by myself yet though.

 

Hope that helps.

I found the thoracic spine the most challenging also.

It will get better - one thing that helped me a lot was practicing the MCO.

It took a few years...

Nice post.

[dwai]

I found the thoracic spine the most challenging also.

It will get better - one thing that helped me a lot was practicing the MCO.

It took a few years...

Nice post.

By thoracic spine, are you referring to the tai chi "rounded back" adjustment? If it is so, then I noticed that when I'm more relaxed, the back rounds more (convex on the back-side, concave in the chest), and also when the back rounds more, the relaxation is greater.

 

One additional note regarding Bearded Dragon's point about the spine -- I noticed that tucking the tailbone (like sitting on a beach ball) seems to help with opening up the ming men point. So, standing in preparation form, with the kwa relaxed and the tailbone tucked slightly (crown point suspended, back rounded), causes (gradually at the beginning) energy to rise up the legs and into the ming men, and then it diffuses to the rest of the dai mai (belt) and into the LDT; eventually rising up the spine. Also, the crown point feels like there is a mini tornado spinning right above it.

 

After this is so, when doing a form (like push), a wave descends down the back leg, while simultaneously a wave ascends up the back leg, to the lower back through the spine, splits at the mid-back/mid-shoulder and splits into the two hands, out of the fingers.

 

I asked my teacher about this and he told me that as the practice progresses, the waves become so fast that you don't really feel the wave...it is instantaneous...