Being Poor and Happy is Sexy, My Epiphany

[Marblehead]

3 billion people live on $2 or less a day.

 

 

 

http://www.prb.org/Journalists/PressReleases/2005/MoreThanHalftheWorldLivesonLessThan2aDayAugust2005.aspx

Is that supposed to have some kind of significance to the discussion?

 

And BTW: I share some of my excess with some of those who would otherwise have litle or nothing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I prefer to travel to the places where folks make about $2 per day (due to the fact that those places just have so much more culture or interesting artifacts). While they only make $2 per day, or per month in some areas... their standard of living I find interesting. While of course there are some who do skip meals, in general they tend to eat quite healthy, work hard, and have the basics they need. Most of the kids look quite healthy and active. They do have to walk up and down a hill to collect water though, which would be a pain in the butt. Of course there are some even poorer folks who don't get to eat when they need and so forth, but I mean the average person who makes so little. It is all relative. They tend to be able to afford coca cola still somehow lol; bottled drinks are one thing which I personally avoid to keep my budget low (so I can travel to these places when I want). Most of them also own property (again, not in my budget).

 

The funny thing is, they tend to not complain about being "broke" as much as folks here, go figure! They are just used to it I guess, and figure out ways to work around it.

[voidisyinyang]

I prefer to travel to the places where folks make about $2 per day (due to the fact that those places just have so much more culture or interesting artifacts). While they only make $2 per day, or per month in some areas... their standard of living I find interesting. While of course there are some who do skip meals, in general they tend to eat quite healthy, work hard, and have the basics they need. Most of the kids look quite healthy and active. They do have to walk up and down a hill to collect water though, which would be a pain in the butt. Of course there are some even poorer folks who don't get to eat when they need and so forth, but I mean the average person who makes so little. It is all relative. They tend to be able to afford coca cola still somehow lol; bottled drinks are one thing which I personally avoid to keep my budget low (so I can travel to these places when I want). Most of them also own property (again, not in my budget).

 

The funny thing is, they tend to not complain about being "broke" as much as folks here, go figure! They are just used to it I guess, and figure out ways to work around it.

 

 

You wanna share some of the places?

 

I have talked to bare-footed peasants in the Andes of Venuezela and mud home Berbers who make their own clothes, humanure compost speaking a rhyming dialect from thousands of years ago in Morocco - a couple great opportunities.

Edited July 25, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[BaguaKicksAss]

Very awesome PFL!

 

I've been to Morocco as well, stayed with some locals for a bit which was kinda neat (if you don't mind eating camel that is hehe). The Berber caves over there are amazing.

 

When I went to Egypt, I of course went to all the touristy temples, tombs and museums (I timed it in between the times the tour buses hit, ugh), but I also went into the areas away from the Nile so explore a bit. The life of the folks there is really interesting, and way different than the areas around the Nile (water and tourism). They also are big on the mud huts thing. Your mention of ancient language reminded me of this, as some of them still speak an old Nubian language which isn't really used anymore. Some of the writing is quite similar to Phoenician which I found interesting. Only the older folks in the tiny islands seemed to speak it the older language though.

 

Haiti and Albania are a couple of others which were extremely interesting (though I wouldn't count Albanians the same category, as it's more like a poorer Europe over there. It is still interesting in the aspect of how you go over the the beekeeper's house for your honey, the lady with the goats for your milk, the chicken lady's house for your eggs, the brewer's house for your booze, and so forth.

 

Amazingly enough I have not yet been to China yet.

[voidisyinyang]

Cool - Zenuezela! haha.

 

Wow the fumes from the deck I stained-sealed today are getting to my brain. haha.

[kaaazuo]

"Those who know they have enough are truly wealthy." Tao Te Ching

 

 

This is not what is meant in the original text. To be blessed with a land flowing with milk and honey is to be blessed with abundance - like the Tao which is inexhaustible.

 

It’s never enough when the Tao is with you, when you are on the roll with all cylinders firing. You throw caution to the winds and shoot for that low score. You go for the American dream.

[kaaazuo]

Well, you are getting rather personal but I will share a little about my early life.

 

I hope you don't see this as prying but your recount of life experiences does bring light to aspects of the human condition. If we look objectively at what you said, there are learnings to be gained.

 

I was born into a poor, lower, working class family. I remember when all five of us kids were still living at home, there was no bathroom. There was an outhouse. We washed our body in the kitchen sink. My father would give my mother $20 a week to feed all seven of us.

 

$20 a week back then could probably buy more than $200 today. But it was tough, I get it. Even though things happen for no particular reason, then as well as now, and people get married and have kids regardless, don't you think it is tough on kids who don't have a say about their coming into this world to face hardship? If you had that choice and God asked you, "hey look kid, it's your turn to get born. There is this poor family and you're gonna get washed in the sink, do you want to get born into that family situation or wait for another one?" What would have been your answer?

 

That's enough for now.

[becomethepath]

The hardship one face is based on the karma of your past lives. Even the wealthy and the rich are suffering as well. The constant need of living up to expectations of others, the constant need to safeguard the assets, the constant need of buying stuff, the constant need of making more money, and so on. Hard to find true friends. The guilt of making so much money while people are suffering around the world living under $2. the constant need to make more money. And even the rich and wealthy are not shielded from the dangers and negativity of the world. We cannot change the past, but we can change the present and future by being compassionate and kind and generous so we can have a better life and future life. I learned from being poor, and I learned from being wealthy and rich and now I realized that I'm happier if I'm making low income salary which is more than enough for me, and plus I don't have to worry about work when I get home and I even have enough to give some money to homeless people. That's my karma, I faced diffulties and suffering in the past and I'm grateful for experiencing both worlds.

Edited July 27, 2013 by becomethepath

[Marblehead]

But it was tough, I get it. Even though things happen for no particular reason, then as well as now, and people get married and have kids regardless, don't you think it is tough on kids who don't have a say about their coming into this world to face hardship? If you had that choice and God asked you, "hey look kid, it's your turn to get born. There is this poor family and you're gonna get washed in the sink, do you want to get born into that family situation or wait for another one?" What would have been your answer?

 

That's enough for now.

I'm an Atheist so the question is redundant for me but I will try to answer it.

 

There is a story in The Chuang Tzu that speaks to something similar to this. It concerns three or four old men friends and one of them was not doing very well. His friends asked him what he wanted to be after he died. He responded that it didn't matter because Tao had done very well for him in this life and whatever became of him after he died would surely be dealt with the best way by Tao.

 

But yes, from your perspective I am sure that the child-soul would ask to wait to be born into a family that was better off.

[kaaazuo]

I'm an Atheist so the question is redundant for me but I will try to answer it.

 

I am using God here as a Chuang Tzu-style caricature, not as a Supreme Being for worship.

 

There is a story in The Chuang Tzu that speaks to something similar to this. It concerns three or four old men friends and one of them was not doing very well. His friends asked him what he wanted to be after he died. He responded that it didn't matter because Tao had done very well for him in this life and whatever became of him after he died would surely be dealt with the best way by Tao.

 

Which Chapter are you referring to? I would like to consult the Chinese text on this.

 

But yes, from your perspective I am sure that the child-soul would ask to wait to be born into a family that was better off.

 

If God had been the Tao, you would have been thrown down the birth chute regardless of what your druthers were. But God is kind and he says, “ok kid, what about this other situation, your potential mom looks like a nice college girl. She is from a traditional well-to-do upper middle-class Christian family but she is an atheist. This is why she is cool about having extra-marital sex with her boyfriend and...oops... got pregnant with you. The upside is, she won’t be forcing Christianity down your throat. The downside would be a possibility of you getting flushed down her birth canal into the rubbish chute. There is also a chance that, having been raised a Christian, she might turn to her folks, see you till full term, and give you up for adoption if your potential dad is a cad. The jackpot is, you get lucky, your potential grandparents make everything right, bankroll your parents, give them a fancy wedding before you get born, and love you like crazy. What do you think?”

 

What would be your answer?

[Marblehead]

I am using God here as a Chuang Tzu-style caricature, not as a Supreme Being for worship.

Okay. I don't use the word because it has connotations I cannot accept.

 

Which Chapter are you referring to? I would like to consult the Chinese text on this.

Chapter 6 - The Great Supreme

 

Lin Yutang's translation is nice for this story in English.

 

What would be your answer?

Let's give it a shot. Likely we will find the difference between fortunate and unfortunate.

[kaaazuo]

Okay. I don't use the word because it has connotations I cannot accept.

 

Ok, I will think of another word for God.

 

Chapter 6 - The Great Supreme

 

Lin Yutang's translation is nice for this story in English.

 

This story is sad. The guy who was not doing well shouldn't have been born. He didn't give a damn which way the wind blew, what color the sky was and who became President of the USA.

 

Let's give it a shot. Likely we will find the difference between fortunate and unfortunate.

 

Why give it a shot? You don't have to be born. The guy who was not doing well didn't have a choice. You could stay unborn and avoid the risks of getting into bad situations. What is there to gain? Why make that quantum leap into the battlefield of life just to dodge minefields and bullets?

 

This thread is about being poor. I am asking an impersonal question here to the unborn. Why would anyone want to be born if given the choice to say no. Practically all kids are brought into this world to face bad situations. Even if you are not poor, you are looking at minimum 12 years of grueling education just to get a job as a rotor rooter helper assuming you don't want to pile on debt to go to college. Even then, there is no guarantee life is going to get better.

[Marblehead]

Ok, I will think of another word for God.

That would be good.

 

This story is sad. The guy who was not doing well shouldn't have been born. He didn't give a damn which way the wind blew, what color the sky was and who became President of the USA.

Hehehe. You read it in Chinese and still didn't get the concepts being presented.

 

Read that entire Chapter by Lin Yutang.

 

Why give it a shot? You don't have to be born. The guy who was not doing well didn't have a choice. You could stay unborn and avoid the risks of getting into bad situations. What is there to gain? Why make that quantum leap into the battlefield of life just to dodge minefields and bullets?

But I would want to be born. Even with the many trouble and heartaches I have had in my lifetime I still have had enough wonderful experiences to justify trying to live as long as I can. Yes, I would want to be born, even if it were with a blank slate as we all are born with.

 

True, the guy who got sick had no choice as to whether or not to be born. But he does have a choice as to how he will face life, both the good times and the bad times.

 

This thread is about being poor. I am asking an impersonal question here to the unborn. Why would anyone want to be born if given the choice to say no. Practically all kids are brought into this world to face bad situations. Even if you are not poor, you are looking at minimum 12 years of grueling education just to get a job as a rotor rooter helper assuming you don't want to pile on debt to go to college. Even then, there is no guarantee life is going to get better.

Yes, the opening post topic concerns mateerial wealth and whether or not it matters as to whether or not we can find happiness.

 

Nope. There are no guarantees in life. A short life is just as meaningful or meaningless as a long life. We are born, we live, then we die. It is what we do between the beginning and the end that matters.

 

Life is already better. How we deal with it will determine whether or not we will find happiness.

 

I feel sorry for the Buddhists who want to stop the cycle of rebirth. Were I a Buddhist I would want to do it over and over again into eternity.

[ralis]

It is all phenomena with human primates attempting to establish absolute meaning in a mysterious universe.

[Marblehead]

It is all phenomena with human primates attempting to establish absolute meaning in a mysterious universe.

Now that is a fact. Hehehe. I used to do that all the time.

[becomethepath]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-reasons-you-re-earning-more-money-and-you-re-still-miserable-154359247.html

 

An article posted today on yahoo.com

[Marblehead]

Very good article and I am in agreement.

[kaaazuo]

I am not in agreement and here is why. Dun and Norton made their pitch (in bold) and I replied:

 

1. You're buying too many things and not enough experiences

 

More satisfaction from experience with friends you treat to a $50 dinner than buying a big screen TV? That’s true for people needy of companionship from sycophants who are always at hand like piranhas and sharks moving in at the smell of blood.

Forget the TV. I would rather spend $40 million on a luxury yacht on which to lounge on my own. I can get all the experience I need from the wonderful crew at my beck and call waiting on me hand and foot.

 

2. You're more focused on getting more money than buying more time.

 

True, if you have to work your ass off getting the money. Guys on the Forbes list of billionaires do sit on their asses or having fun as they watch their billions pile up ever higher. Warren Buffet said that he is happy getting up every morning going to work and having fun doing it.

 

2. You think a McMansion will make you happy.

 

No, that won’t make me happy at all because it’s bourgeois. And the reason why bourgeois people are not happy is because they don’t have money, are wannabes who always max out on buying that big house. I don’t think a McMansion will make me happy at all. I want to use the killing I made in a gold trade to buy an estate with stunning views of the sea in the Italian Riviera. The happiness doesn’t come only from the property itself but also from acquiring it at rock bottom market price because some wannabe is getting burned alive financially now that the Italian economy is going south.

 

3. You're letting yourself have too much of a good thing.

 

Material over-saturation could kill the potential to make oneself any happier? Are these guys nuts? Sounds like they are trying to convince people that having money is bad and they should give it to them.

 

Their argument is that the appreciation of a good thing comes from a deprivation of it. That’s true if you are not allowed to breathe. So, should we suffocate ourselves once in a while to heighten the comfort of inhaling normally?

 

There is no such thing as too much of a good thing if you have your head screwed on right. If I am in a state of bliss in Paradise with God and you tell me that Jade Heaven is a better place, I am heading right there, right now. And that’s the American way.

5. You're investing too much in yourself and not enough in other people.

Dun and Norton said to make others happier first and you'll bring yourself happiness in the process; it sound obvious, but you'd be surprised how many of us forget it.

 

Not only that. They also said (if you swallow their line) not to make others happier through Red Cross, do it through them.

 

And I say, forgetaboutit!

[kaaazuo]

That would be good.

 

Ok, how about the Lord of Heaven (元始天尊), the Jade Pure One, one of the Three Pure Ones? He is the head honcho of the Taoist Pantheon and the equivalent of God.

 

Hehehe. You read it in Chinese and still didn't get the concepts being presented.

 

Read that entire Chapter by Lin Yutang.

 

Oh, I got the concept, the Chinese concept, that is. You read the same story and came away with the western concept. Different strokes for different folks.

 

The prevailing western value is idealistic socialism. The Chinese has always been pragmatic. This is because they, at the fundamental level, believe in nothing. If you are astute, you can detect this in traditional Chinese philosophy. If the west doesn’t care which way the economic wind blows, that suits the Chinese just fine. You eat their philosophy and they’re gonna eat your lunch.

 

But I would want to be born. Even with the many trouble and heartaches I have had in my lifetime I still have had enough wonderful experiences to justify trying to live as long as I can. Yes, I would want to be born, even if it were with a blank slate as we all are born with.

 

True, the guy who got sick had no choice as to whether or not to be born. But he does have a choice as to how he will face life, both the good times and the bad times.

 

Of course, once you are in the water, you swim for dear life. As for the good times, they are all imaginary – stimulations of the mind.

 

Yes, the opening post topic concerns mateerial wealth and whether or not it matters as to whether or not we can find happiness.

 

Nope. There are no guarantees in life. A short life is just as meaningful or meaningless as a long life. We are born, we live, then we die. It is what we do between the beginning and the end that matters.

 

Life is already better. How we deal with it will determine whether or not we will find happiness.

 

I feel sorry for the Buddhists who want to stop the cycle of rebirth. Were I a Buddhist I would want to do it over and over again into eternity.

 

Why would you feel sorry? The Buddhist sees life as a river of suffering and stopping the cycle of rebirth is to stop falling back into the water. They feel sorry for you. You have a different view of the situation and feel great about life regardless of the hazards. And if a croc chomps off a leg or two, swim on, with prosthetics. To you, it’s how we deal with life that counts. In that regard, Stephen Hawkins - who is in much worse shape that the guy who was not doing well - would make a fine Chuang Tzu character.

[Marblehead]

They also said (if you swallow their line) not to make others happier through Red Cross, do it through them.

 

And I say, forgetaboutit!

 

This I willl agree with but I still stand with my original understanding.

 

We are different people as a result of our personal experiences and we are at different stages of our life. (Our opinions and understandings do change over time.)

 

I guess we will just agree to disagree on this one. (I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.)

[Marblehead]

Ok, how about the Lord of Heaven (元始天尊), the Jade Pure One, one of the Three Pure Ones? He is the head honcho of the Taoist Pantheon and the equivalent of God.

They are all imaginary. They don't exist and never have. No different from the Easter Bunny or the Great Pumpkin.

 

Oh, I got the concept, the Chinese concept, that is. You read the same story and came away with the western concept. Different strokes for different folks.

Hehehe. Lin Yutang was Chinese. He presented the Chinese concept in English terms.

 

... and they’re gonna eat your lunch.

I suggest they might just find a sleeping tiger if they come walking in the tall grasses of my world.

 

Of course, once you are in the water, you swim for dear life. As for the good times, they are all imaginary – stimulations of the mind.

No, the good times were real. The memories of them are imaginary. But if recalling the memories makes one happy then I would suggest that they are also real.

 

Why would you feel sorry? The Buddhist sees life as a river of suffering and stopping the cycle of rebirth is to stop falling back into the water. They feel sorry for you. You have a different view of the situation and feel great about life regardless of the hazards. And if a croc chomps off a leg or two, swim on, with prosthetics. To you, it’s how we deal with life that counts. In that regard, Stephen Hawkins - who is in much worse shape that the guy who was not doing well - would make a fine Chuang Tzu character.

I have had many Buddhists try to enlighten me. That is why I would feel sorry for them. All roads lead to Rome; my path is just as good, if not beter than theirs.

 

Yes, we need to accept our present conditions. Sure, we can try to make them better but if we fail to do that we should be happy with the failure as well.

[kaaazuo]

They are all imaginary. They don't exist and never have. No different from the Easter Bunny or the Great Pumpkin.

 

If they are all imaginary, then so are we - no more, no less.

 

Hehehe. Lin Yutang was Chinese. He presented the Chinese concept in English terms.

 

Lin Yutang presented the western concept in English terms. I got the Chinese concept from the Chinese text.

 

I suggest they might just find a sleeping tiger if they come walking in the tall grasses of my world.

 

Tigers began fading away with the likes of Generals MacArthur and Patton. The land where tigers roamed is now populated by a different kind of cats that have no love for God and country. You could be the last of the breed facing the hungry horde.

 

No, the good times were real. The memories of them are imaginary. But if recalling the memories makes one happy then I would suggest that they are also real.

 

Good times are feelings of exhilaration about people, places and things. Just feelings, nothing more than feelings...

 

 

I have had many Buddhists try to enlighten me. That is why I would feel sorry for them. All roads lead to Rome; my path is just as good, if not beter than theirs.

 

Yes, we need to accept our present conditions. Sure, we can try to make them better but if we fail to do that we should be happy with the failure as well.

 

Happy with failure? What would Sun Tzu say?

[Marblehead]

If they are all imaginary, then so are we - no more, no less.

No, so are you and you already think this way. I'm real and so is my chair.

 

Lin Yutang presented the western concept in English terms. I got the Chinese concept from the Chinese text.

Useless arguement. Especially if you are more skilled than Lin Yutang was.

 

Tigers began fading away with the likes of Generals MacArthur and Patton. The land where tigers roamed is now populated by a different kind of cats that have no love for God and country. You could be the last of the breed facing the hungry horde.

No. Tigers started becoming extinct because the Chinese brelieve that parts of them have medicinal qualties so they killed all that were in China and then started paying high prices for those in other parts of the world. Same thing happened with the Chinese elephant and rhino as well as so many other animals. Mao had all the birds killed because they were eating too much of the grain that was being grown for people. After the killing China had many of its people die of starvation becaue the insects did a thousand times more damage than the birds had ever done.

 

I could go on but that wouldn't be very interesting.

 

Good times are feelings of exhilaration about people, places and things. Just feelings, nothing more than feelings...

What a whimpy song. Hehehe. I've been listening to a collection of James Brown and Irma Thomas songs I put together a while back.

 

BTW I love my emotions and the feelings they cause.

 

Happy with failure? What would Sun Tzu say?

He would likely say something like, "Oh, oh. I fucked up. I'll do better the next time."

[kaaazuo]

No, so are you and you already think this way. I'm real and so is my chair.

 

What about your real cold? Have you recovered completely yet?

 

Useless arguement. Especially if you are more skilled than Lin Yutang was.

 

Lin Yutang was selling you a bill of goods. I checked the goods myself without the middle-man. This is the only way to do business with the Chinese.

 

What a whimpy song. Hehehe. I've been listening to a collection of James Brown and Irma Thomas songs I put together a while back.

 

Whimpy?

 

BTW I love my emotions and the feelings they cause.

 

Emotions and feelings are what the seven deadly sins are about.

 

He would likely say something like, "Oh, oh. I fucked up. I'll do better the next time."

 

There is no next time for a serious guy whose battles are won before they are ever fought.

Edited July 29, 2013 by kaaazuo

[Marblehead]

What about your real cold? Have you recovered completely yet?

Which cold? The disease or my skin temperature compared to my inner body temperature?

 

Lin Yutang was selling you a bill of goods. I checked the goods myself without the middle-man. This is the only way to do business with the Chinese.

You're right. Hehehe.

 

Whimpy?

Yep. That's a word for something that is too gentle, soft, passifistic, or slower than I prefer.

 

Emotions and feelings are what the seven deadly sins are about.

I must be an awefully sinful person if those are valid standards (which I do not believe is so).

 

There is no next time for a serious guy whose battles are won before they are ever fought.

There are always more battles to be fought. Another day if we are fortunate enough to wake up in the morning. Some days are filled with trials, others are just another day.

 

In the Army we had the four P's: Piss Poor Prior Planning