U.S. funded genocide in Indonesia - new documentary

[voidisyinyang]

 

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/19/the_act_of_killing_new_film

 

 

We spend the hour with Joshua Oppenheimer, the director of a groundbreaking new documentary called "The Act of Killing." The film is set in Indonesia, where, beginning in 1965, military and paramilitary forces slaughtered up to a million Indonesians after overthrowing the democratically elected government. That military was backed by the United States and led by General Suharto, who would rule Indonesia for decades. There has been no truth and reconciliation commission, nor have any of the murderers been brought to justice. As the film reveals, Indonesia is a country where the killers are to this day celebrated as heroes by many. Oppenheimer spent more than eight years interviewing the Indonesian death squad leaders, and in "The Act of Killing," he works with them to re-enact the real-life killings in the style of American movies in which the men love to watch — this includes classic Hollywood gangster movies and lavish musical numbers. A key figure he follows is Anwar Congo, who killed hundreds, if not a thousand people with his own hands and is now revered as a founding father of an active right-wing paramilitary organization. We also ask Oppenheimer to discusses the film’s impact in Indonesia, where he screened it for survivors and journalists who have launched new investigations into the massacres. The film is co-directed by Christine Cynn and an Indonesian co-director who remains anonymous for fear of retribution, as does much of the Indonesian film crew. Its executive producers are Werner Herzog and Errol Morris. "The Act of Killing" opens today in New York City, and comes to Los Angeles and Washington, D.C., on July 26, then to theaters nationwide.

 

http://www.converge.org.nz/abc/prsp25.htm

Edited July 19, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[narveen]

i don't believe you understand what took place in indonesia.

the usa had nothing to do with their racial politics.

[voidisyinyang]

Well you can not believe whatever you want! haha.

 

 

 

Ex-agents say CIA compiled death lists for Indonesians After 25 years, Americans speak of their
role in exterminating Communist Party by Kathy Kadane, States News Service, 1990

 

http://www.namebase.org/kadane.html

 

former senior U.S. diplomats and CIA officers described in lengthy interviews how they aided Indonesian President Suharto, then army leader, in his attack on the PKI.

"It really was a big help to the army," said Robert J. Martens, a former member of the U.S. Embassy's political section who is now a consultant to the State Department. "They probably killed a lot of people, and I probably have a lot of blood on my hands, but that's not all bad. There's a time when you have to strike hard at a decisive moment."....Embassy officials carefully recorded the subsequent destruction of the PKI organization. Using Martens' lists as a guide, they checked off names of captured and assassinated PKI leaders, tracking the steady dismantling of the party apparatus, former U.S. officials said.....the US provided key logistical equipment, hastily shipped in at the last minute as Soeharto weighed the risky decision to attack. Jeeps were supplied by the Pentagon to speed troops over Indonesia's notoriously bad roads, along with "dozens and dozens" of field radios that the Army lacked. As Ms. Laber noted, the US (namely, the Pentagon) also supplied "arms." Cables show these were small arms, used for killing at close range.

[Flolfolil]

i read the title out of the corner of my eye as "us funded genocide in florida"

 

i was like, "Oh no! My family!"

[ralis]

i don't believe you understand what took place in indonesia.

the usa had nothing to do with their racial politics.

 

 

You only state opinion and offer no proof or links to documents to back up your opinions. Of course being a college dropout with two degrees in engineering makes anything you post, not credible.

Edited July 20, 2013 by ralis

[narveen]

You only state opinion and offer no proof or links to documents to back up your opinions. Of course being a college dropout with two degrees in engineering makes anything you post, not credible.

 

i don't need links.

all i need is the intelligence

to take apart your attempts to stomp on the usa

 

there are more than enough anti-america sentiments abroad

americans who badmouth america are just what they need

to stick the knife in

it's sad that i have to stuff it down overseas

it's sickening when i have to face that mindless rage back home

[Formless Tao]

i don't believe you understand what took place in indonesia.the usa had nothing to do with their racial politics.

 

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about...just like in my other USA thread I started. You are very wrong with the above statement, I assure you...

[Marblehead]

i read the title out of the corner of my eye as "us funded genocide in florida"

 

i was like, "Oh no! My family!"

You better stay out of Florida. We don't roll over and play dead.

[narveen]

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about...just like in my other USA thread I started. You are very wrong with the above statement, I assure you...

 

and how would you assure me?

have you been to indonesia?

i am there right now.

get the mods to check my ip address.

[Flolfolil]

You better stay out of Florida. We don't roll over and play dead.

playing dead has been my single best technique for self preservation

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

people keep paying all their taxes and complaining as to how those taxes are spent, don't they?

[ralis]

and how would you assure me?

have you been to indonesia?

i am there right now.

get the mods to check my ip address.

 

The IP address can be from a VPN which proves nothing. If you are in Indonesia, what does that prove? That you know the entire story?

[voidisyinyang]

people keep paying all their taxes and complaining as to how those taxes are spent, don't they?

 

 

 

http://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=11Dec12

 

Karl Meyer of Chicago, a former Congressman’s son and a free-lance writer immersed in pacifist causes, conceived the idea and proposed it to Maris Cakars of the War Resisters League in New York. Meyer drafted a pamphlet, “Hang Up On War!,” which has become a staple among the literature distributed by the War Resisters League through the mails and at peace booths. It explains the link between the telephone tax and the war, summarizes moral and legal objections to the war, and provides practical advice for resisters of the tax, including a candid assessment of the possible risks. Of the risks, it points out that under Section 7203 of the Internal Revenue Code, which covers both the telephone and the income tax, one who “willfully fails to pay” could be imprisoned for up to one year and fined up to $10,000. It adds that the experiences of tax resisters over the past several years show that the government is not willing to press criminal charges but, instead, acts to collect the taxes (with interest) directly, when and where it can.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Solutions. Please.

[Formless Tao]

and how would you assure me?have you been to indonesia?i am there right now.get the mods to check my ip address.

 

 

Hahaha...You will need to take my word for it because I will not assure you any other way. U seem to like arguing for the sake of arguing. I never reason with unreasonable people, thats my motto...

 

Firstly I'm married to an Indonesian Chinese, married in Indonesia. Secondly I worked and lived their for over I year. Thirdly I speak Indonesian. Fourthly I have had conversations with powerful players and normal Indonesians on this subject and others. Fifthly, ive been visiting Indo every year since 2005/2006. Sixthly some nights I would visit old Chinese Indonesian in laws and sit and discuss the Japanese invasion, Sukarno, Suharto etc as they were alive b4 these events. Sevethly ive been arrested by Intelkam and Rescrim through no fault of my own. Finally my father in law are well connected with Indonesian politicians, intelligence, army, police and immigration. How do you think I got out of being arrested in consecutive days without me paying a cent? Its called connected in laws making a call for me when they were on holidays in Singapore whilst I was managing a shop and warehouses in Indonesia.

 

Somehow I believe I know more on this subject than you.

 

Selamat pagi dan apa kabar. Orang yang tidak masuk akal...

[narveen]

The IP address can be from a VPN which proves nothing. If you are in Indonesia, what does that prove? That you know the entire story?

 

looks like you are more tech savvy than i am.

i'll bet the nsa can locate me in a second.

 

i am not just in indonesia for a vacation

i know the region, not just jarkarta.

listened to stories of chinese professionals and business tycoons

who fled genocide and racism to borneo, singapore and malaysia

even opportunistic americans had stories to tell about how they moved in

at the height of the genocidal rampage

to snatch up dirt-cheap brand-new heavy earth-moving caterpillars

for shipping back to projects in the usa.

 

all that proves, to me, the entire story is fabricated to stir up anti-american sentiments

the us messing around in central and south america could make geo-political sense

indonesia?!

[narveen]

great! you are on the ground in indonesia and so am i.

let's see which one of us is telling lies about the usa.

 

Hahaha...You will need to take my word for it because I will not assure you any other way. U seem to like arguing for the sake of arguing. I never reason with unreasonable people, thats my motto... Firstly I'm married to an Indonesian Chinese, married in Indonesia.

 

take your word on what issue?

that the usa was behind the mass-killing associated with the political clash between suharto and the communist party of indonesia (PKI)?

 

Secondly I worked and lived their for over I year. Thirdly I speak Indonesian. Fourthly I have had conversations with powerful players and normal Indonesians on this subject and others. Fifthly, ive been visiting Indo every year since 2005/2006. Sixthly some nights I would visit old Chinese Indonesian in laws and sit and discuss the Japanese invasion, Sukarno, Suharto etc as they were alive b4 these events.

 

ok, let's assume that you are telling the truth.

at any rate, none of your connections can gain you any access to material facts for serious discussion

 

Sevethly ive been arrested by Intelkam and Rescrim through no fault of my own.

 

people who get arrested always say that.

what was their reason for arresting you?

 

Finally my father in law are well connected with Indonesian politicians, intelligence, army, police and immigration.

 

how well connected?

in corrupt indonesia the only connection of any value is money

 

How do you think I got out of being arrested in consecutive days without me paying a cent? Its called connected in laws making a call for me when they were on holidays in Singapore whilst I was managing a shop and warehouses in Indonesia.

 

chances are you were arrested by mistake

maybe you look like che guevara

otherwise there would be no way in hell you could have gotten sprung free without payment of money

especially with your indonesian chinese in laws pleading your case.

 

Somehow I believe I know more on this subject than you. Selamat pagi dan apa kabar. Orang yang tidak masuk akal...

 

you know know shit, buddy.

just answer my questions i posed to you

if you want to prove you are right about usa involvement in indonesia

 

and using google translate isn't going to impress me one bit.

[Formless Tao]

great! you are on the ground in indonesia and so am i.let's see which one of us is telling lies about the usa. take your word on what issue?that the usa was behind the mass-killing associated with the political clash between suharto and the communist party of indonesia (PKI)? ok, let's assume that you are telling the truth.at any rate, none of your connections can gain you any access to material facts for serious discussion people who get arrested always say that.what was their reason for arresting you? how well connected? in corrupt indonesia the only connection of any value is money chances are you were arrested by mistakemaybe you look like che guevaraotherwise there would be no way in hell you could have gotten sprung free without payment of moneyespecially with your indonesian chinese in laws pleading your case. you know know shit, buddy.just answer my questions i posed to youif you want to prove you are right about usa involvement in indonesia and using google translate isn't going to impress me one bit.

 

Hahaha... I love ur assumptions.

 

Being naive towards the US government or any other government for that matter and by being influenced/brainwashed by the US/any government through marketing/propaganda is no excuse.

 

SEEK THE TRUTH!

 

Arguing for the sake of arguing, I feel pity for you.

 

If you really believe what you are saying, I feel even more sorry for you and you should seek the TRUTH.

 

If you are trying to get the most posts on TTB per day/week/month/year/overall there are no prizes for being top poster, or none that im aware of

 

As I stated in my previous post, I dont try to reason with unreasonable people...

[narveen]

why did you not answer my questions?

why were you arrested?

what are you accusing the usa of specifically with regard to the killings in indonesia?

 

don't run away if you want to wrestle with issues

takut?

[ralis]

great! you are on the ground in indonesia and so am i.

let's see which one of us is telling lies about the usa.

 

 

take your word on what issue?

that the usa was behind the mass-killing associated with the political clash between suharto and the communist party of indonesia (PKI)?

 

 

ok, let's assume that you are telling the truth.

at any rate, none of your connections can gain you any access to material facts for serious discussion

 

 

people who get arrested always say that.

what was their reason for arresting you?

 

 

how well connected?

in corrupt indonesia the only connection of any value is money

 

 

chances are you were arrested by mistake

maybe you look like che guevara

otherwise there would be no way in hell you could have gotten sprung free without payment of money

especially with your indonesian chinese in laws pleading your case.

 

 

you know know shit, buddy.

just answer my questions i posed to you

if you want to prove you are right about usa involvement in indonesia

 

and using google translate isn't going to impress me one bit.

 

Can you possibly explain this statement? What does that have to do with the OP?

 

maybe you look like che guevara

[narveen]

Can you possibly explain this statement? What does that have to do with the OP?

 

well, the op is full of it.

anyone who tries to hawk anti-american propaganda has to prove they can back up what they say

i am on the ground and not a clueless activist lapping out anything bad about his own country

i know i won't change your sentiments about america

love of country - like loyalty to one's own folks - is inborn and cannot be cultivated

and i intend to defend the fort even if i am the last man standing at the alamo

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

well, the op is full of it.

anyone who tries to hawk anti-american propaganda has to prove they can back up what they say

i am on the ground and not a clueless activist lapping out anything bad about his own country

i know i won't change your sentiments about america

love of country - like loyalty to one's own folks - is inborn and cannot be cultivated

and i intend to defend the fort even if i am the last man standing at the Alamo

 

From where I stand, from how I was raised, loyalty is only ever earned and never ever inborn.

I was taught to respect those who respect me, to treat others with as much decency as I am treated with.

 

From the television and media to the supermarket and internet, Americans are by and large self important and irresponsible for their own self which they claim to be so important.

 

Every "responsible and independent" American is fully neglecting to acknowledge their reliance on either a paycheck or welfare or acknowledge how irresponsible they are to allow their money to be taxed-and then turned around and spent on anti-American values, such as corporations and their bailouts, and war for the sake of war-money.

 

 

AMERICAN values are truth, liberty, justice, and freedom. anything that runs contrary to the maintenance of a mutually equalized free people is neither responsible, nor valuable, most certainly contrary to the American constitution, and least of all Humane.

 

So YEAH, you're DAMN RIGHT im going to bad-mouth America. For such noble ambitions as "all men are created equal" America has my unyielding hope and admiration, but for failure to secure and maintain this pie in the sky, America is unforgivable.

 

Family, clan, community. THESE things make us American. Not big business, corporate welfare, bailouts, bank accounts, or federation.

 

[kaaazuo]

From where I stand, from how I was raised, loyalty is only ever earned and never ever inborn.

I was taught to respect those who respect me, to treat others with as much decency as I am treated with.

 

Maternal instinct is not taught. Your mom loves you even though nobody knows why and that kind of devotion breeds a kind of loyalty that can never be taught. This is the way of the Tao.

 

From the television and media to the supermarket and internet, Americans are by and large self important and irresponsible for their own self which they claim to be so important.

 

Not all Americans are that way. You need to have faith in your countrymen. Every night, somewhere in the world, American top guns risk their lives landing fighters, loaded with live munitions, in the darkness of night, on moving airfields each no longer than a football field, in troubled seas, to protect your freedom. They are doing something commercial pilots could screw up doing in broad daylight at San Fransico airport.

 

Every "responsible and independent" American is fully neglecting to acknowledge their reliance on either a paycheck or welfare or acknowledge how irresponsible they are to allow their money to be taxed-and then turned around and spent on anti-American values, such as corporations and their bailouts, and war for the sake of war-money.

 

How are you going to wake them up?

 

AMERICAN values are truth, liberty, justice, and freedom. anything that runs contrary to the maintenance of a mutually equalized free people is neither responsible, nor valuable, most certainly contrary to the American constitution, and least of all Humane.

 

Do you think all Americans are rotten to the core?

 

So YEAH, you're DAMN RIGHT im going to bad-mouth America. For such noble ambitions as "all men are created equal" America has my unyielding hope and admiration, but for failure to secure and maintain this pie in the sky, America is unforgivable.

 

I agree.

 

Family, clan, community. THESE things make us American. Not big business, corporate welfare, bailouts, bank accounts, or federation.

 

Let's begin with family which is the foundation of a nation. What makes a good American family?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

TODAY, the phrase is a contradiction of terms, "American family"...
It doesn't matter WHERE in the world you live, a GOOD FAMILY is that group of people who are bound by blood lineage, looking after each other, teaching each other, and sharing their experiences and abilities for the mutual prosperity of the family unit.



Clans, communities, nations, these are all supposed to be extended families, but by the time you get past the clan/community level, you've breached your "monkey sphere" and engaged in an unnatural way of life.


I've spent time on the streets and met a handful of great, decent, down to earth folks... it takes losing everything in order to realize our humanity... there is nothing I can do alone to wake YOU or anyone ELSE up. you have to face the loss of everything EXCEPT your life before you even CAN wake up.

Some people realize this through meditation. some figure it out right away, others spend 10 years in a cave.


But at the end of the day, "necessity" is reduced to "what I need in order to get what I want" and the whole human experience is wasted therefore.

[kaaazuo]

I've spent time on the streets and met a handful of great, decent, down to earth folks... it takes losing everything in order to realize our humanity... there is nothing I can do alone to wake YOU or anyone ELSE up. you have to face the loss of everything EXCEPT your life before you even CAN wake up.

 

Some people realize this through meditation. some figure it out right away, others spend 10 years in a cave.

 

I wish you would speak out plainly and state your case. You obviously come across to me as earnest. But what do you want from your audience? Thus far, you have put forth your philosophy of anarchy but have not explained how this can be a basis of a viable society of two people, never mind a nation of 300 million.