PP

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[idiot_stimpy]

More energy to use for transformation.

[Jetsun]

I don't see how pollution and population makes any difference as long as you have food and shelter, I'd say its one of the best times to cultivate seeing as the worlds wisdom is at our fingertips and we can travel to any master in the world within a day, many masters and avatars now do regular world tours.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Sitting meditation leads to nowhere, you will quickly realise how messed up our minds are today as opposed to a "placid" planet of 27 million people! Hence more radical methods are required to tackle the mind and its countless blockages.

WTF?

 

Sitting meditation still leads to the same result as it always has, because people still have the same structure of 5 skhandas and 8 consciousnesses with obscurations all based on craving, delusion and ill-will.

 

It's just a bit harder now to have a good foundation of relaxation and be able to sit still without constant entertainment. So people need to detach a little more at the beginning and heal their stress.

 

People still do achieve high levels of shamatha and have realisations like no-self. Sitting meditation absolutely doesn't lead nowhere - although, of course, conducting body, speech and mind properly in daily life is also indispensable to really get up the ladder, as it always has been.

 

New radical methods could help, probably, but I disagree that they are necessary. The same basic formula of virtue, samadhi and prajna which can be found in valid cultivation traditions like Buddhism, Taoism and Vedanta still works... the trouble is that many people are misguided by New Age fluff, more ADD and more lazy, so it's a bit harder.

 

But the BIG PLUS of this age is that people worldwide have access to good Dharma teachings, and religion is slowly dying, and we don't need to worry about physical needs as much. So people in the West with the discernment to identify a valid path, and the will to walk it, will be able to do so and progress far, whereas in the past they would have only known about useless dogma which leads, at best, to being a bit nicer.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Here's an interesting analysis about human numbers.

 

2000 B.C. 27 million people worldwide vs 2013 7 billion people worldwide

 

If it was hard for the Buddha to attain enlightenment, imagine for a human being living in a overpopulated and energetically messed up planet due to pollution. Not an easy task. Sitting meditation leads to nowhere, you will quickly realise how messed up our minds are today as opposed to a "placid" planet of 27 million people! Hence more radical methods are required to tackle the mind and its countless blockages.

 

Good luck.

 

The mind of the enlightened is not the problem, but the minds of the unenlightened; therefore it is not the self that must be changed once enlightenment is realized, for the necessary changes will have been made in order to find enlightenment.

 

 

No, the changes now must take place socially.

 

 

 

It is not the fault of the individual that enlightenment has become so suppressed by the social "norm" of frantic and hyped up material pursuit and value - to be forced t ochange oneself so drastically while the world around toils to suppress us further.

 

It is not so much the individual who needs to heal their mind and become enlightened as it is the world around the individual which is in desperate need of healing, so that others may, themselves, reach enlightenment without irrational opposition.

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[NotVoid]

Hi Gerard. I believe that there is at least some truth to what you are saying. Although we tend to think of ourselves as much more enlightened than people from earlier times, much of our most revered spiritual and self culitvation related writings and teachings derive from periods more than 2000 years ago and much earlier. Some of those ancient writings make references to even earlier times where people were supposed to generally be even much more enlightened overall. Despite this apparent downgrade in the last few thousands years at least, we can still do whatever we can manage to cultivate ourselves if we so desire. If sitting meditation is not proving constructive for example, then do standing and/or moving practices, or whatever. We can do what seems to have value and what seems to bring some purpose and meaning in the current circumstances. This then may well mean adapting with the times to some extent as you suggest, although it may not need be too drastic or radical. My suggestion would be to practice what seems to work for you now. What is the difference between stillness and movement in the grand scheme of things? I don't know the answer to that question but it may help to consider the question anyway.

Edited July 23, 2013 by NotVoid

[de_paradise]

Our bodies are filled with more toxins--antidote is conscious continuous physical detox and controlled diet, physical practice of yoga, pranayama, internal arts, etc.

 

Physical practice was once considered low level, beginning step leading to more psychological type cleansing, then later a mind-only type. It has changed where physical body should be constantly looked after, no matter how open your channels have become

 

Vajrayana is the practice of transformation of energies, negative or positive is looked at as opportunities. But it is rare to find someone who actually understands how to transform and use negative energies in the moment, and not fall prey to the negative energy.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

It's certainly not easy to use "reverse psychology" in the realm of energic work. I've been struck by an individual while doing so, but had not succumbed to their anger. they later expressed incredulous admiration for the "genius of (my) intent", to which I felt rather awkward and out of place lol

[baiqi]

I don't see how pollution and population makes any difference as long as you have food and shelter

It doesn't make a difference as long as you live away from pollution and population! Otherwise, it makes spiritual practices very hard.

 

Pollution is bad for health. Too many people makes it harder for inner peace: you have so many more stimuli now than in the past, which is hard on the nervous system.

[idiot_stimpy]

But it is rare to find someone who actually understands how to transform and use negative energies in the moment, and not fall prey to the negative energy.

 

Spontaneous liberation of energies.

[Marblehead]

 

Sitting meditation still leads to the same result as it always has, because people still have the same structure of 5 skhandas and 8 consciousnesses with obscurations all based on craving, delusion and ill-will.

 

 

I was going to comment to that part of the opening post but you did a fine job so now I have no need.

[Marblehead]

I actually agree regarding the additional problems caused by human over-population and the pollution of the planet.

 

But both have happened because of advanced technologies through the ages. How to make a value judgement?

 

But as long as we, the individual, continue to travl a path toward further awareness of ourself and reality as a whole, I think that this can be done just as efficiently today as it could have been done 2500 years ago.

[Stosh]

Here's an interesting analysis about human numbers. 2000 B.C. 27 million people worldwide vs 2013 7 billion people worldwide If it was hard for the Buddha to attain enlightenment, imagine for a human being living in a overpopulated and energetically messed up planet due to pollution. Not an easy task. Sitting meditation leads to nowhere, you will quickly realise how messed up our minds are today as opposed to a "placid" planet of 27 million people! Hence more radical methods are required to tackle the mind and its countless blockages. Good luck.

There are pros and cons to our large society. They were already coming to understand that 2500 years ago! Which is why we have the dao of confucius!

Thelearners description of monkeysphere and human motivations are really rather accurate.

Other people especially the neurotic , tend to drag in the unwary..but that is even true of small families.

SO blaming your society for its complexity , or being against it in some way, isn't aiming you anywhere helpful ,, unless you want to run off to a retreat somewhere.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I actually agree regarding the additional problems caused by human over-population and the pollution of the planet.

 

But both have happened because of advanced technologies through the ages. How to make a value judgement?

 

But as long as we, the individual, continue to travl a path toward further awareness of ourself and reality as a whole, I think that this can be done just as efficiently today as it could have been done 2500 years ago.

 

IT CAN BE done, yes, but the problem is in how much more difficult it would be today than it was 25hundred-ago.

 

2500 years ago we might have had a 1% population reaching enlightenment as opposed to maybe a 0.25% population now...

 

1% of a smaller population might be fewer people, but it is a greater quality... Life quality is not improving from 2500 years ago, there's just more of us living longer, but the life qualities aren't worth the extended life span!!!

 

[Marblehead]

 

Life quality is not improving from 2500 years ago, there's just more of us living longer, but the life qualities aren't worth the extended life span!!!

 

I would argue with this. I think that today, most of our problems are of our own making. All around living conditions are so much better now. It is just that most people can't understand what "enough" is. Always wanting more of whatever. Enough to live a comfortable life is enough.

[Stosh]

Number of people reaching enlightenment ?

 

Pbfft ha ha ha ha

How the hell would anyone have any idea?

You can't even get concensus on what it is!

Let alone calculate the rate 2500 years ago.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

fair enough... there's no knowing one way or the other. However, I find it hard to believe that there is any genuine improvement in modern lifestyles than "old fashioned" or "primitive" or "country" or "tribal" lifestyles... rather, I tend to consider the "modern" era unhealthy as fuck.

[Stosh]

It certainly has significant drawbacks , Ill grant you that.

[xor]

Alot depends on if you live near a large population center. Ofcourse most of us have plenty of damage from modern life even if we've lived relatively healthily. It can be hard to keep at doing something which is good for you if you start to release toxins that make you feel like shit every time.