Requesting help in regards to meditation and third eye opening specifically

[DeadDragon]

Deleted. This attention is bothering me, my words have not been pure / wise enough. I apologize for complicating or causing problems for some of those who had read my posts. I must return to silence, and cultivate myself further. Thank you though for all of your help, peace and love for everybody. Would lock / delete topic if I could, but what's done is probably already done.

Edited July 26, 2013 by DeadDragon

[Cheshire Cat]

Do you wear glasses?

[voidisyinyang]

work on full lotus.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Get The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace and start shamatha.

 

If you practice shamatha for settling the mind in samadhi with relaxation, stability and vividness, you will get past this stage by allowing the chi to do what it must.

 

Switch your primary focus to the mind. That's how you will open your third eye - otherwise, you're trying to hold a chi structure open while mental hindrances are holding you back.

 

This light may be the early stage of a nimitta forming. Practice shamatha and you'll get further, to unimaginable levels...

 

This is a key part of every cultivation tradition, so don't be put off by the Buddhist terminology. Even esoteric Christianity has shamatha, because it's so important to train the mind to be focused, still and alert - so that not only high levels of chi can build, but deep non-conceptual insight and the meta-cognition to really develop new virtuous qualities in place of old habits.

[voidisyinyang]

I sit in full lotus already, about half the time. The other half half lotus. At least when it comes to meditation, it isn't always ideal for driving or other activities

 

I don't wish to cause myself injury by overextending myself.

 

Maybe you misunderstand full lotus - it's based on electromagnetic energy opening up the channels. Chunyi Lin sat in full lotus for 2 months nonstop -- no sleep.

 

Jim Nance sits in full lotus 12 hours nonstop sometimes but both Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance do about 5 hours a night nonstop full lotus.

 

So doing 2 hours nonstop full lotus is a good start.

 

Also be aware that a mod is chasing me around on this site claiming I am "promoting" i.e. "selling" Spring Forest Qigong. haha. I make no money doing this.

 

So if you don't see any more SFQ threads on thetaobums that is why!! thanks.

[RiverSnake]

It takes some practice to distinguish between ones intuition and ones intellect. When I have difficulty distinguishing between the two I use divination to get an answer (tarot cards).

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[RiverSnake]

So are you suggesting I sit in full lotus as much as possible, even without meditating in some form or other? Such as just reading. Or, if possible should I always be meditating while sitting that way? Can there ever be too much practice of the microcosmic orbit or focusing on the center, or possibly on the heart as well? I mean as long as one doesn't forget to take care of external matters? Not that I feel it would be unsafe, but possibly would cause me to stop practice - trying to take on too much at once, become overexerted and exhausted, the blessing would become a curse, something like that. It has taken me a long time to work up to daily practice again, many years, and I don't want to blow it all again.

 

IMO it's best to slowly open up ones channels, to much at one time can fry you. Go at your own pace, just because someone meditates for 10 hours everyday does not mean you should do the same.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited July 23, 2013 by OldChi

[hydrogen]

My inner guidance usually says 1-2 hours per day of meditation - recommending the best meditation and the best moment and direction to practice. But it is still new to me, communicating with it, and I'm always uncertain whether this guidance is from the spirit of the universe or just my own subconscious or perhaps other sources. It's hard for me to trust it completely sometimes let's just say. Which is why I'm here.

 

Thanks for reading if you've made it this far and for any insight you may be able to provide. Peace and love to all of you, and perhaps one day I can be the master instead of the student.

 

I was in a strange blissed state for a few weeks. I know it's possible to have a mediated mind in regular life. My goal is to do it 24/7 eventually.

 

Sitting in full lotus is to practice swimming in a swimming pool. One eventually wants to swin in the pond, lake and occean.

 

I'm sorry I can't give any solid advice about your particular situation. You should trust yourself. Your worst decision for yourself is still the best choice at that moment.

[voidisyinyang]

So are you suggesting I sit in full lotus as much as possible, even without meditating in some form or other? Such as just reading. Or, if possible should I always be meditating while sitting that way? Can there ever be too much practice of the microcosmic orbit or focusing on the center, or possibly on the heart as well? I mean as long as one doesn't forget to take care of external matters? Not that I feel it would be unsafe, but possibly would cause me to stop practice - trying to take on too much at once, become overexerted and exhausted, the blessing would become a curse, something like that. It has taken me a long time to work up to daily practice again, many years, and I don't want to blow it all again.

 

That book recommended seems like a good one to read. I'm not keen on practicing multiple methods at once, but can the teachings be incorporated into other types of meditation? SFQG is the best I've found in providing practical benefits to yourself (and others, unlike any other meditation it seems), while also providing a deepening spiritual awareness.

 

But the mind is a tricky thing, always a difficult task for me it seems to not overfocus and force thoughts out of my head, or underfocus and just let it drift wherever it wants. You'll get no argument from me that it is what is holding me back. I can see how such a practice devoted specifically in how to conduct one's mind could be beneficial.

 

That's a good idea about using divination, I'll have to give that a try as well.

 

Thanks for all of your help, it is much appreciated.

 

Edit- Retreat #33 was the response from the I-ching. It seems to me taking a break might be in order at least for today, so as to lessen or remove the desire to succeed. What appears sweet turns to poison. The energetic response, which I think is the great spirit, confirmed it.

 

 

well I read one book a day for 10 years while sitting in full lotus....

 

I sit in full lotus at the computer - unless I just ate.

 

ummm.....

 

But meditation in full lotus is different - obviously - Chunyi Lin says 20 minutes of full lotus meditation is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation.

 

So full lotus is not the only path, obviously -- the other exercises may be better for your situation or mine even.

 

But Wang, Liping and Yan Xin and a lot of the spiritual masters rely on full lotus practice as their routine nightly practice -- but their meditation is deep enough to not need sleep.

 

So 5 hours of full lotus and then 3 hours of sleep -- that is the norm for Jim Nance and Chunyi Lin.

 

ummm.....

[3bob]

My take:

"3rd eye opening" is not the point or goal at all compared to the reality of Self which is beyond any such power... thus such powers are at best tools for Spirit and at worst tools for demons. (as in light twisted into darkness)

 

If we are really doing karma yoga then there is no imagination going on about getting results for healing of whatever kind or form, and if the greatest healer that ever walked the earth is not also doing karma yoga 24/7 (in effect) then how could they be used as a matrix for a pure healing to pass through them?

Edited July 24, 2013 by 3bob

[Seeker of Wisdom]

That book recommended seems like a good one to read. I'm not keen on practicing multiple methods at once, but can the teachings be incorporated into other types of meditation?

Well, in order to really get somewhere with shamatha the object of your meditation must be static if you are deliberately creating it, which rules out anything like MCO, mantras or so on. These things are useful, I'm not discounting them from practice entirely, but they're not good for shamatha.

 

It must either be a deliberately created still thing (e.g visualised dot), a still thing which already exists (e.g awareness), or a moving thing which already exists (e.g the breath). Otherwise the stability you can cultivate is limited.

 

Also, it must either be an object of mental awareness like a visualised dot or awareness itself; or the breath, which is an object of sensory awareness with which a nimitta can form for you to then switch focus to. Otherwise the vividness you can cultivate is limited.

 

So, if what you already do clearly matches these criteria, go ahead. Otherwise, use the classic accepted techniques, like those presented in the book, on top of your current practice.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Ant]

If you are doing the Sun and Moon meditations I assume you've read the SFQ Level 3 manual and/or done the Level 3 course in person? Chunyi emphasizes that one should continue to stand up and do active exercises as part of their practice even when they get to higher levels. I'm sure it's tempting to make sitting meditation the entirety of your practice especially with the experiences you are having, but remember that you need to keep building your Jing through the standing exercises. In Sydney Chunyi told us that people with psychic abilities often appear older than they are or are overweight, as excessive use of third eye abilities can drain the Kidney energy. The Level 3 SFQ manual says something similar to this.

 

It sounds like you're making great progress in your practice, but perhaps you should take heed of Chunyi's advice and put some standing exercises into your practice to ensure that you maintain a good reserve of vitality.

[joeblast]

Hi there,

 

I was wondering if you might be able to provide any guidance to this particular situation of mine. Every time I meditate, whether it is the SFQG sun / moon or even just the microcosmic orbit lately, eventually a light will start to shine behind my closed eyes filling up my entire field of vision. It doesn't necessarily happen when my focus is on the third eye, it happens at any point of focus.

 

Every time it happens though, I get excited, and I can feel the energy go straight to my private area. And then the light disappears behind my eyes. There is nothing sexual about it, no thoughts of any sort in my mind, merely excitement from maybe finally opening up my third eye and being able to understand the universe and helping to heal others much better than now.

 

I do not practice celibacy, I do relieve myself occasionally - less and less the more I meditate and as time goes on. For maintaining health, with no real desire to do so otherwise. Never in any close proximity to my time of meditation.

 

My guidance says don't worry, continue practice, eventually the excitement can be overcome and it will take a couple few weeks to do so. It should be noted I don't experience any pain or pressure while practicing. Eventually the energy subsides and returns to where it needs to go. Many years ago I used to get excited about the tingling sensation of energy but after living with it for so long it feels pretty normal to me now. But it's a challenge, I've had telepathy and astral projection in the past before I blocked it all out, and I know exactly just how wonderful (and terrifying) new spiritual perceptions can be.

 

Lastly I was wondering how much meditation is too much? I have the time and desire to practice all day, with not much desire for anything else besides to expand my awareness and help others heal better specifically through energy work. I'm actually on a fast today, as guided to do so, unsure how to spend my time besides reading wise words and taking care of myself in other ways (which leaves so much time unfilled).

 

I don't have a job really and not many people seem to want to talk or hang out with me, usually because they are busy or because they are suffering their own problems, which is OK.

 

Not that I am unhealthy or unhappy for the time being, but it would be so nice to open my third eye so I can heal people no matter where I go or what I am doing externally. From a distance without even having to speak to them about it, with no worry about how my healing might be judged as ineffective even if it was effective due to the nature of some energy blockages taking a longer time to clear away, or taking up a person's precious time.

 

My inner guidance usually says 1-2 hours per day of meditation - recommending the best meditation and the best moment and direction to practice. But it is still new to me, communicating with it, and I'm always uncertain whether this guidance is from the spirit of the universe or just my own subconscious or perhaps other sources. It's hard for me to trust it completely sometimes let's just say. Which is why I'm here.

 

Thanks for reading if you've made it this far and for any insight you may be able to provide. Peace and love to all of you, and perhaps one day I can be the master instead of the student.

"where the yi goes, the qi flows" - if you get that light and then subsequently get distracted by a comfy feeling in the pants, then you're following the impulse and moving away from the fundamentals that precipitated the phenomena in the first place. keep the awareness at the center...keep it focused at the niwan, upper dantien...gently, buoyantly, radiantly, as if you placed a lamp in the middle of a room - the light emitted does not strain, nor does the light experience time.

 

opening the third eye is merely passing a threshold of energy that allows the light of the wisdom eye (niwan) to shine forth - bones are piezoelectric semiconductors; they insulate below a threshold and conduct over the threshold. it will open naturally, you do not need to focus on it or intentionally "open" it. simply cultivate the awareness - keep the focus on the fundamentals of process and not what the outcome is that you may be seeking - let that unfold as it may. the fundamentals are what promulgate the 10,000 things anyway, the 10,000 is merely a distraction.

 

how much meditation is too much? the question is, how well are you keeping your awareness focused. standing, meditation...these cultivation exercises are cultivating the awareness. if you get to the point where its too much of a struggle to maintain awareness, then the yang of the session has already begun to wane and you've reached a point of diminishing returns. wind the session down, you wont be getting a ton more out of it. that's not to say dont push yourself past that which you have already achieved...balance, balance, after all...

 

if you want to do more healing, keep standing plenty, keep doing full lotus, look into doing some laogung breathing so that the palms can be opened up some more, while standing, yongquan breathing will help open and balance, I have a thread in my personal section for discussion on those methods of cultivation.

 

/\

[voidisyinyang]

If you are still aware of your body then the third eye has not really been open - the body has to be full of chi energy.

 

So any thoughts obsessing about physical positions of the body are just lower level conceptual thoughts and not anything to do with the real third eye opening.

 

Only when you see light external to your body are you beginning to open the third eye but first the body has to be filled with electromagnetic energy so that you don't even feel the body and at this stage there is no physical lust and so it is based first on celibacy.

 

If a person is married for example they are not going to be able to do the real training unless they go on a long retreat.

[joeblast]

yeah, I heard when you make some real progress, the ego drops too

[voidisyinyang]

Giving fake advice holds people back and slows them down.

 

Getting real means facing the hard truth.

 

Getting paid while trolling is not Taoism.

 

Having some internal dialog about how industrial civilization is destroying the planet is a step closer to real Taoism.

 

These are all great Chinese fortunes I have discovered from reading fortune cookies.

[joeblast]

and mind chatter can be turned down and attenuated, just like a broken record still has a volume knob

[hydrogen]

Having some internal dialog about how industrial civilization is destroying the planet is a step closer to real Taoism.

 

My fortune cookies says thinking about how to make the planet a better place is a step closer to Tao.

[voidisyinyang]

Just take cayenne to reduce prostate cancer - it's just from lack of real sublimation of sex energy - that's what causes prostate cancer - the lower center blockages.

 

Cayenne will also break up those blockages - and sprinkle a bit on the problem also. haha.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi there,

 

I was wondering if you might be able to provide any guidance to this particular situation of mine. Every time I meditate, whether it is the SFQG sun / moon or even just the microcosmic orbit lately, eventually a light will start to shine behind my closed eyes filling up my entire field of vision. It doesn't necessarily happen when my focus is on the third eye, it happens at any point of focus.

 

Every time it happens though, I get excited, and I can feel the energy go straight to my private area. And then the light disappears behind my eyes. There is nothing sexual about it, no thoughts of any sort in my mind, merely excitement from maybe finally opening up my third eye and being able to understand the universe and helping to heal others much better than now.

 

Hi DD,

The light is an indicator that your mind is starting to settle and you are realizing some of the jhanic factors, specifically rapture.

It is not quite a nimitta, but it is getting close to it.

 

The deepening of samadhi involves this distinctive shift from the physicality of breath sensations as the object of concentration to what is called the counterpart sign or nimitta. The nimitta often appears as a vibrating pearly bright light resonating with the in- and out-breath, or a soft luminous perception likened to cotton wool. Please don’t jump to the conclusion that the first appearance of light in the mind is the nimitta. The mind progressively brightens long before the breath nimitta appears. Many meditators stall their progress by following after “false nimittas”—changing colors, changing images, flashes, motley fields of light, or visual impressions of light that remove the focus of attention from the breath-point to another location (most commonly above the eyes, or in the head).

 

The breath nimitta usually appears as a stable, smooth, white radiance associated with the focus on the breath. It is a mental reflection of the breath and includes no physical aspect; the light and breath may appear to have merged into a single mental experience of breath. The counterpart sign arises as a result of the concentration and serves as the first landmark of a state conducive to absorption. By learning to notice when this sign arises, you will be able to retrace your steps in the future and attain jhana when desired. Discerning the nimitta is the first step in stabilizing this refined object for concentration. From this point forward, there is no attention to coarse physicality. The term nimitta, or counterpart sign, will refer to the object of breath when the breath is known as a stable, luminous, mental focus without sensation.

Catherine, Shaila (2008-05-10). Focused and Fearless: A Meditator's Guide to States of Deep Joy, Calm, and Clarity (pp. 115-116). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

I have experienced the phenomenon of the background of the field of attention brightening up many times.. (today's meditation was a good example of this, and I remembered your post). What happens is that the background of the object that I'm focusing on gets brighter and brighter, like someone gradually turns down the dimmer switch on a flashlight. The background resembles a bright cloud on a sunny day and fills the whole background, seemingly like it fills the whole visual field. And it gets brighter and brighter. Also, if your kundalini is active, at that point you will also start to get mild surges from the root chakra.

 

Yes, at that point, if you get too excited, it vanishes, because excitement disturbs the mind and the brightness is a result of a calm mind. Stir the pool and the reflection goes away.. Stick with it instead and you go into samadhi.

 

However, the fact that background gets brighter is not the main course of Anapanasati or "breath meditation". When the background gets brighter, it indicates that the nimitta(s) are not far away. When the nimitta appears, it pierces through that bright background and is so bright that you might think that someone turned a high-beam headlight on and was pointing it directly at your mind. However, you will never get a good nimitta unless you start concentrating your awareness in one small area and hold your mind stable and calm. You must fix your attention/awareness in one small location and keep it there, ignore the brightening background and keep focused. The small area to focus on may be just below the nostrils. Or, it may be just below the navel and in a bit (lower dantien).

 

Actually, the lower dantien is one location where you can see that same background bright light quite easily. I usually see it within two or three seconds of focusing just below the navel. It is that same light that you are seeing. It is an accomplishment because it indicates that your third eye is open (internal vision) at that point in your med/practice.

 

As far as your excitement goes, it will help you get over it once you realize that it is a preliminary step, and that the main course awaits you.

 

If I were you I would get a hold of "The Attention Revolution" by Alan Wallace, or "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" by Ajahn Brahm, or "Focused and Fearless" by Shaila Catherine and learn more about it.

 

You are getting closer and you should try to at least realize some of the jhanas and beyond..

 

Oh, and having your third eye open doesn't grant you any healing abilities or extra special powers or understanding. You have to open the wisdom eye for that and connect it to the heart. (that's another story). The third eye lets you see visions, but you have to join the pituitary and pineal gland in one cohesive unit before the more advanced features of the third eye occur. Also, you don't need to open your third eye to understand the universe or do healing, what you need to open is your heart. It is the heart that has the powers and the third eye is just a periscope for it. The heart's powers even work when it pulls the periscope back inside.

 

Good luck.

 

TI

[Ant]

And as I said the spirit still suggests I do it from time to time (in moderation it's good for one's health). Even Master Lin when I went in once for a healing said at the time I should be doing it more often.

 

 

this is interesting, are you able to elaborate more on the advice he gave? if it's too confidential then that is fine.

[joeblast]

 

It didn't require celibacy. Celibacy is a dangerous thing if you don't know how to do it properly, creating energy blockages and eventually more serious problems. It's been shown that masturbation and sex reduce the risk of prostate cancer. And as I said the spirit still suggests I do it from time to time (in moderation it's good for one's health). Even Master Lin when I went in once for a healing said at the time I should be doing it more often.

One needs to be careful of what he attempts to assert using statistics. Very easy to take a false correlation and say it is far more widely applicable than it really is, simply because the statistical sample may not be a good representation of the entirety of that which you wish to say something about.

 

So if applying this to medical statistics and occurrences of prostate cancer - how many of these in the sample do you think know of the mind body connection, the physical manifestations of lustful thought, the beneficial healing aspects of good and regular abdominal breathing practice that appropriately involves the huiyin/perineum...

 

If you are cultivating and understand these things...that pretty much sets you outside of the statistical samples mentioned.

 

That's why they say lies, damned lies, and statistics. Cull your sample back enough and you can assert damn near anything and attempt to say its statistically significant. Bad statistics is responsible here just as An Inconvenient Truth was entirely based on utterly horrible statistics.

Edited July 25, 2013 by joeblast

[joeblast]

unfortunately the sex desire is too great for most people and they either cant handle it or it causes problems one way or the other. tough to have non discriminating non attachment. one can say they're not attached to the feeling of sex, but then they turn around and are attached like a mofo

[Tibetan_Ice]

I was reading over my anapanasati manual and then I realized what you were talking about. The nimitta shows up on a further stage that I have not go to yet. I am merely on the first stage of anapanasati. Some say to be relaxed but in the manual, I got it tells you to deliberately make it longer and also experiment with your short breath. like when the Buddha said know when the breath is short. I almost forgot about your posts until I was like why don't I read that anapanasati manual.

 

I find it funny how people complain so much about giving masturbation and practicing the five precepts. I mean I understand about the difficulties of it but don't be like I don't need these precepts. The precepts are fine and if you are able to understand them, you won't think such thoughts of "the precepts are not worth it."

 

As for masturbation, are you attached to the desire and results of it? I betcha you are. It's like having sex with someone and saying, "I'm not attached to the feeling of sex." Of course if it sucked haha. But that's not the point. Just imagine normal casual sex where you experience bliss and orgasm.

Hi M

Nowhere in any of the anapanasati or breath meditation manuals that I listed (Brahm, Alan Wallace, Shaila Catherine) does it say to control the breathing. You have misinterpreted. The very act of trying to shorten or lengthen the breathing is counter to stilling the mind. You cannot still the mind when you are in any way, shape or form trying to control the breathing, or trying to control anything for that matter, except to direct your awareness and rest it on the object of meditation.

 

The Buddha's instruction is ""[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.'

 

The emphasis is on "knowing" the breath, not on making the breath short or long. It is the concsiousness/awareness that 'knows' which is the important factor.

 

Even Alan Wallace says that it usually takes up to 6 months of regular practice before a meditator can watch the breath without controlling it. No control. Passive observation, resting in the 'knowing'. That is the goal.

 

If you have an anapanasati manual that tells you to play with the breathing, I would love to read it so that I could warn people about the false instructions. (and I sure hope it is not a manual from Master Nan).

 

Not sure why you are talking about masturbation now.. Sex and orgasm pale in comparison to the jhanas. I have very little interest in sex and orgasm, especially after experiencing prolonged jhanic rapture states.

 

Edited July 26, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

Yeah, the commentary I got is from Bhikku Nagasena.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/anapanasati.pdf

 

Oh, ok. He is neurotic. Within his instructions, controlling the breath and making the breath short or long is a training or experiement to help the mind recognize when the body is breathing long or short. I think that is overkill.

 

 

In the book you linked to it says:

 

Lastly he should make the experiment of intentionally breathing as short as he can in order to make a further comparison.

 

Nagasena is not very clear, but he does state that controlling the breathing is an 'experiment' in order to help recognize the different types of breathing cycles. But he does say that the breath should be natural when mediting for real. Natural means uncontrolled. However, he does spend too much time on experimenting, and he shouldn't be pushing the idea that the breath should be longer naturally, when he defines 'longer' as up to 30 to 40 seconds for one breath. This is quite misleading.

 

What happens to me is that as the mind stills the breathing slows down. The breath itself does not become longer, but slower and shallower, almost nonexistant. I must admit, the first time I experienced that pronounced change in the breathing pattern, I did lose my calm mind because it surprised me. But I got over the surprise real fast. It is just something you note. But it is not something that you have to train yourself to recognize.

 

 

From Ajahn Chah:

If we force our breath to be too long or too short, we're not balanced, the mind won't

become peaceful. It's like when we rst start to use a pedal sewing machine. At rst we

just practise pedalling the machine to get our coordination right, before we actually sew

anything. Following the breath is similar. We don't get concerned over how long or short,

weak or strong it is, we just note it. We simply let it be, following the natural breathing.

 

From Alan Wallace:

We now have the opportunity to break this habit. We don’t have to wait until we’re asleep before respiration can heal the day’s damage. With mindfulness of breathing, we can do it anytime. Not controlling the breath, we let the respiration flow as effortlessly as possible, allowing the body to restore its balance in its own way. Simply focusing your attention on the sensations of the breath is directed attention, the first stage of this practice. You have achieved the first stage once you are able to sustain your attention on the breath for even a few seconds. When pursued earnestly, a little mindfulness meditation in the morning or at night immediately brings greater clarity to all activities and provides a natural check on unhealthy habits.

Wallace Ph.D., B. Alan (2006-04-10). The Attention Revolution: Unlocking the Power of the Focused Mind: v.ution (p. 22). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

 

 

Hope that helps..