Can awareness truly become aware of itself? Etc.

[Songtsan]

If it can truly become aware of itself directly, how does that work? When people think they have become aware of 'their' awareness, are they usually just seeing a thought construct of it? How can awareness become aware of itself without turning inwards, and in that turning inwards, who/what turns inwards? If it can turn inwards and see itself, what would be left for it to see, if there were no objects for it to be aware of besides awareness itself, which to my mind seems to be empty? How could emptiness become aware of emptiness? How can emptiness know anything without the construct of a knower? The knower is awareness, right? But if there is only the knower, and nothing to be known besides awareness, and the act of being aware of the awareness, is there anything at all there without some fabricated 'I' that 'knows'? If everything is outside of awareness, including what we usually think of as the microcosm, is the awareness itself outside of awareness? This seems unlikely, so is awareness the only thing that could be considered a microcosm?

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

That is just your mind saying that.

 

So all your thoughts are based on your I-thought.

 

The I-thought is the root of the mind and also the root of the Universe from formless awareness.

 

So consciousness as the mind based on the I-thought is from light spirit energy.

 

Your mind becomes aware of the light spirit energy through the qi training.

 

But when the light spirit energy goes into the Emptiness then there is no light experienced - there is nothing experienced - no mind to be aware of anything.

 

Emptiness is the movement or awareness that guides the mind as light spirit energy.

 

So Emptiness is like a spacetime vortex - but consciousness as spirit-light mind is eternally going into the Emptiness.

 

So Emptiness does not change - it is the fundamental level of reality but it is eternally creating energy.

 

The mind is eternally LISTENING to the source of itself which is Emptiness - and so this process of listening then transforming the energy through a dimensional shift - like a 180 shift of spacetime.

 

So the energy comes from the realization that the Emptiness is in control and so the mind can only silence itself by LISTENING to its source and then new energy flows in.

 

There is an actual spacetime vortex when the light goes into the Emptiness - a spinning.

 

But the Emptiness itself is like the space between thoughts or like deep dreamless sleep.

 

There are different levels of Emptiness and different levels of spirit-light consciousness - and this is an eternal energy transformation process.

 

So the Emptiness can not be talked about since that is always mind - only meditation itself as silence or listening then creates the light energy from the Emptiness.

 

So then a master can go into the Emptiness immediately - deeper than dreamless sleep - beyond the heart - to the fundamental level of reality - and thereby transform physical reality and travel through spacetime also.

[Songtsan]

There is a lot there for me to think about, so I can't comment much yet.

 

But when they speak of formless awareness, awareness without form or seed object, then what you are saying that although there is no seed object, that there is awareness of something besides pure direct awareness?

 

Or another way to say it: It is impossible to disconnect the seer from the seen and act of seeing because they all are eternally fused and truly one, so my question is moot?

 

I am just vibing what you said and haven't truly dissected it.

[voidisyinyang]

There is a lot there for me to think about, so I can't comment much yet.

 

But when they speak of formless awareness, awareness without form or seed object, then what you are saying that although there is no seed object, that there is awareness of something besides pure direct awareness?

 

Or another way to say it: It is impossible to disconnect the seer from the seen and act of seeing because they all are eternally fused and truly one, so my question is moot?

 

I am just vibing what you said and haven't truly dissected it.

 

 

Yeah so "seer" and "seen" is a dualistic logic construct but the I-thought has so signifier (seer) and no signified (seen).

 

So the I-thought as I-I-I-I - it is self-transcending. The question is what is the source of your I-thought?

 

Logically all your thoughts are based on your I-thought. So at first you repeat I-I-I in your mind not as a mantra but as a logical investigation.

 

So then the mind fuses or concentrates into one I-thought and from concentration then the frequency increases - into the chi energy - and as the chi energy increases then the mind sinks into the heart or there is a fusion and so the chi energy increases more.

 

This is the "top down" process - but actually there is a secret point on the right side of the heart - this through the heart goes beyond the mind and body into the Emptiness....

 

And so in the Emptiness the body has to first be filled with chi energy and also the light energy has to be in creation from the chi energy - it is your spirit light energy going into the Emptiness.

 

So at deeper levels of Emptiness then the light is brighter and different colors since it's a higher frequency - and so then this is based on from the jing energy also and so then the golden light is the deepest level of Emptiness.

 

But the Emptiness is NOT light - Emptiness is the movement or awareness of light.

 

Light is mind as direct perception or direction knowledge, etc. - all the mind powers - light energy - astral realms - that's also still the mind but it's not the Emptiness.

 

Emptiness is the fusion or harmonization of the bliss-love and the physical energy - existence or jing - and then the electromagnetic force-spirit light.

 

Emptiness is the actual uncondional love - as a three-in-one fused process of energy creation as the truth of reality.

 

The mind has to LISTEN or silence its own perceptions in order to go into the Emptiness which then creates energy harmonization and transformation -- this process is eternal and so the process does not change but it's just that normally the mind is not aware of the process nor is the mind consciously going into the Emptiness by "emptying" itself out through listening in silence.

[Songtsan]

Again I am in the mind to ask questions, but not receive answers, funnily! lol I didn't intend to seriously contemplate this until tomorrow at the earliest.

 

One thing that struck me though is the discussion on the 'I' thought - I always considered the 'I' thought an aggregate fabrication. Not real in any any 'real' sense.

 

There was a time before we learned to speak or know we were separate from others. They talk about this is developmental psychology actually. Babies don't realize that they are separate for a long while. How do they know this? Well that's a whole subject in itself, but having read about it in detail, I believe that the thought has merit.

 

Here is another interesting thought - purely theoretical - I'd never actually suggest doing this: What if we took someone who was just born and surgically severed all their sense inputs, except internal ones? So no external vision, smell, taste, etc. - what would happen to them as they developed? Would there just be a nothing? I can't imagine it would happen that way - there would still be awareness, but an awareness of only subtle internal processes - probably magnified into some extreme form. There would be no development of language, no sense of others - so would there be a development of sense of self? Sense of self should only develop in relation to having a sense of other. So I cannot forsee a development of 'I' consciousness in the way we know it. Its not something one could ever truly fathom though, but an interesting tool for contemplation.

[Songtsan]

I guess if known, knower, and act of knowing are one, then awareness already knows itself on one level, so my logic in asking whether awareness can know just itself outside of an object that is known is flawed. There will always be an object that is being known. Awareness cannot be separated from the other processes to be examined singly.

 

So an update to the question might be: What is the best way to approach understanding and knowing of exactly what awareness is? Perhaps using an ideal object to be known? Or is this even a worthwhile pursuit?

 

I don't know my brain is tired. Time to go to sleep.

[voidisyinyang]

Yes babies have not developed their hippocampus for long term memory storage and so there is no sense of I-thought yet but also the hippocampus is what regulates their cortisol stress levels and so babies can not decrease their cortisol levels which is the kidney stress energy - the life force energy. So if the baby is overstressed it can cause permanent damage to the hippocampus still in a fragile state - a deep subconscious impact that causes oversensitive stress reactions - like PTSD also which is hippocampus damage.

 

So also time slows down when there is a huge overload of stress to the hippocampus - from where? The adrenal glands!

 

Time slows down b/c the hippocampus is processing information at a faster rate since it is receiving more information - and why? Because the increased hormones for survival enable this faster processing rate.

 

And so for Taoists the I-thought intention is from the pancreas and this is what Chunyi Lin calls the Bermuda triangle since the pancreas energy is also a subset of the kidney jing energy.

 

So too much thinking actually weakens the life force energy.

 

The modern mind confuses thinking with consciousness when dreaming is a more closer level of consciousness.

 

So it's not that the I-thought is just another illusion - but that all thoughts are based on the I-thought yet the I on its own does not refer to anything at all - and so the I-thought is a root cause bridge between thoughts and no thoughts.

 

So concentration on the source of the I-thought is just a beginning left-brain exercise. The left brain -- to inhibit it - then activates the right side vagus nerve which then sublimates the jing energy.

 

When the right brain is dominant then the left side vagus nerve goes down to the heart to then increase the chi energy.

 

The brain on its own is weak - it takes the right side vagus nerve sublimation of the jing energy first to build up the power of the mind -- to concentrate the thoughts.

 

A lot of people think they have had no thoughts - but that is just another thought about no thoughts.

 

Yes as long as the I-thought exists then more practice is needed! The I-I has to be returned to its source to listen in silence after the thoughts have been emptied out.

 

As long as thoughts arise then the practice has to be continued.

 

Poonja - the student of Ramana Maharshi - Poonja stated and I think Ramana also that so many days of Nirvikalpa Samadhi causes a person to die from the bliss - so to truly stay in the Emptiness is actually very rare.

 

Chunyi Lin says if you can achieve just 5 seconds of Emptiness it is a huge achievement.

[Jetsun]

At the moment I suspect that awareness becoming aware of itself may well be the point of humanity and of the whole drive of the evolutionary process. Yet if we look into ourselves we cannot find ourselves anywhere we look, like the eye can't see itself we cannot find ourselves yet we obviously exist, but if you can drop into a state of non-duality then you can see your own awareness in others, which is why Ramana said "when I look inside I see that I am nothing, when I look outside I see that I am everything" or something along those lines. If you have two people who are in a state of non-dual awareness then there is a bridging of recognition, which is what happened when Rumi first met Shams and they spent two weeks just looking into the ocean of the divine in each others eyes.

[voidisyinyang]

Right - Jim Nance says how he can extend his awareness -- expand it - so he becomes all the chairs in the room or he becomes the tree out in the forest - -but the ability to do that is based on his qi energy - so it requires fusing the qi and light spirit energy into the Emptiness as awareness.

 

So first he focuses his spirit-qi energy on a chair and then concentrates his mind on the chair in a trance samadhi and then focuses on his body and the chair at the same time and then the third step is that the two merge together.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Awareness is the vehicle through which 'That which Is' is informed of its existence.. from wikipedia:

 

 

Awareness is the state or ability to perceive, to feel, or to be conscious of events, objects, or sensory patterns. In this level of consciousness, sense data can be confirmed by an observer without necessarily implying understanding.

 

The "awareness becoming aware of itself", is an imagined solution for unfulfilled desires of special knowledge.. there is no awareness apart from 'That' which is aware..

 

Mind is the common medium through which awareness reveals existence to that which exists, it is through the clarity of a 'still mind' and the unconditionally sincere curiosity about what is actually happening that you/me/we/us/Life realize our relationship with ALL of 'it'..

 

Be well..

[voidisyinyang]

There's a zillion b.s. mind yoga websites which ignore the fundamental yin-yang or complementary opposites of energy building which makes Taoism unique.

 

So - to get to awareness you need to build up jing which is yin and then increase chi which is yang and this turns into spirit light energy which is yin and that goes into the Emptiness.

[Jetsun]

So - to get to awareness you need to build up jing which is yin and then increase chi which is yang and this turns into spirit light energy which is yin and that goes into the Emptiness.

 

Not necessarily, that is just one way