My introduction

[somtingwong]

Did you study Chinese medicine in Uni? I have always been skeptical about the Chinese approach to physical health. What do you think of acupuncture?

 

Is your Chinese medicine based on faith or science?

[Esteam'd Punk]

Hey, there are Ninja's "Ronin" all over the place !!

(Sorry, the medications wearing off)

Say whaaaat? Are most ninjas just masterless samurai?

[Basher]

Say whaaaat? Are most ninjas just masterless samurai?

 

No, just a play on japanese "martial" terminology...was all.

 

E.P., I see that you prefer the "jutsu" (martial arts) to the "do" (sports).

Any particular reason ?

[Esteam'd Punk]

No, just a play on japanese "martial" terminology...was all.

 

E.P., I see that you prefer the "jutsu" (martial arts) to the "do" (sports).

Any particular reason ?

I always thought the -jutsu was more flashy. I started with judo and kendo first of course, and then I advanced. When training, we have to use -do, but we use the -jutsu when sparring I'm being prepared for war I think, but I'm too afraid to ask.

 

Japanese Terminology? You gotta go to college for that?? :D :D :D

[Basher]

I always thought the -jutsu was more flashy. I started with judo and kendo first of course, and then I advanced. When training, we have to use -do, but we use the -jutsu when sparring I'm being prepared for war I think, but I'm too afraid to ask.

 

Japanese Terminology? You gotta go to college for that?? :D :D :D

 

Hai !!! (LOL)

 

Not Really, I did some Kyokushinkai (Knockdown) full contact Karate & then later some Aikido, in my youth...(before I began Kung Fu / Tai Chi).

I still have random Japanese words floating around in my memory..not much use in a conversation with somebody Japanese though.

 

1 to 10, side kick, elbow, front kick, begin, reverse, etc etc.

[Esteam'd Punk]

Hai !!! (LOL)

 

Not Really, I did some Kyokushinkai (Knockdown) full contact Karate & then later some Aikido, in my youth...(before I began Kung Fu / Tai Chi).

I still have random Japanese words floating around in my memory..not much use in a conversation with somebody Japanese though.

 

1 to 10, side kick, elbow, front kick, begin, reverse, etc etc.

Hehe. I remember when I attended a kendo class for a few days, I always got distracted when the instructor yelled 'MEN!'

While everyone else were striking at the sound of the command, I was looking for men. Lol.

 

Aikido....was that fun?

[Basher]

Aikido was great, arms locks, wrist locks, throws, breakfalls, etc on nice comfy mats.

All done with grace & effortless re-direction of movement.

(Except when I tried it as a beginner) LOL

 

But Aiki-jutsu might be more your thing, eh ?

 

Kendo = great for building up your shoulders & arms.

A sport where you tell your opponant exactly which part of their body you're going to try & hit !!!

Usually the bits where they have the most protection (ie reverse of what you'd do on a battlefield).

[kevin_wallbridge]

Did you study Chinese medicine in Uni? I have always been skeptical about the Chinese approach to physical health. What do you think of acupuncture?

 

Is your Chinese medicine based on faith or science?

 

I actually came into it through anthropology, then I started a Chinese medicine school so I could study it.

 

Chinese medicine is based almost entirely on empirical observation, so it depends on what you mean by science. In bio-medicine there is a bias that says if it isn't based on a double-blind experiment it isn't science. However, empirical observation is also science as we can see by such things as the study of plate tectonics and cosmology. There is the impression on the outside of Chinese medicine that it involves a lot of magical beliefs, however, you will find that modern people are actually much more fantastical in their thinking about the world that the ancient Chinese were when it comes to health. Chinese medicine is based on very pragmatic observations of pathological changes in many body systems.

 

Even though the language may be colourful doesn't mean the thinking is vague. Take "heart fire" for example, the classic Chinese were not stupid, they were not talking about literal fire in the heart. Instead they used the imagery of fire to convey the circumstances of a series of inflammatory processes in the body that centred on heart function and showed in a series of interrelated symptoms that form a recognizable syndrome (red tip of the tongue, increased cognitive agitation, insomnia, frequent and relatively rapid speech, increased heart rate, palpitations, and so on).

 

This is the pattern of diagnosis in Chinese medicine and the treatments are based on the same kind of observation. Acupoint and herb selection isn't based on magical formulae, its based on predictable changes based on observation. A person who argues for a more "scientific" approach may say "so (the acupoint) 内关 Neiguan may reduce symptoms of nausea, but if you can't tell me what the exact mechanism of action is its just magic thinking." In Chinese medicine we say, "how will understanding the mechanism make it better for the patient?" Its not that it wouldn't be useful to understand it, but there no reason not to use the acupoint to treat nausea before that is understood. If it were merely a placebo effect of the patient's belief in getting cured the results would not be so consistent, nor would it work on animals.

 

So to answer your question, I probably know as much biomedical pathology as your average MD, and I also know a pragmatic and highly practical medicine that has been clinically tested for over 2300 years and still stands up today. Not much faith needed.

Edited July 27, 2013 by kevin_wallbridge

[Esteam'd Punk]

 

..But Aiki-jutsu might be more your thing, eh ?

LOL

[somtingwong]

So to answer your question, I probably know as much biomedical pathology as your average MD, and I also know a pragmatic and highly practical medicine that has been clinically tested for over 2300 years and still stands up today. Not much faith needed.

 

Wow, I really like your answer, Kevin. It's about time someone speaks with substance and rationale on the Taoist (or should I say Chinese) approach to life, in general, and medicine, in particular. I have been a skeptic thus far regardless of the fact that I grew up in Hong Kong and have had treatments by Chinese senseis for ailments. I lost all faith after the last time when I had a small lump growing up the side of my face. The Chinese doctor, quite well-known locally, applied a stinky black patch on the area. The lump got bigger after a third visit with the same procedure. I asked the sensei what was his intent. He told me that his medication will cause the lump to burst. I went straight to the hospital and was treated in the outpatient clinic by a pretty Chinese doctor. She lanced the lump, which was actually a large boil, squeezed out the pus, dressed the wound, and told me "that's it, just come back to change the dressing tomorrow." It was over in ten minutes.

 

I think we need to continue this conversation outside this lobby meant for casual chat. If someone could point me to the right sub forum, I could start a new topic if that's ok with you, Sensei Kevin.

 

Is it "General Discussion"? or "Taoist Discussion"?

Edited July 27, 2013 by somtingwong

[kevin_wallbridge]

I suppose General is the way to go. Easier to stay on topic.

 

and Kevin is just fine we are all just trying to work out how to live well

[xor]

Chinese senseis??

[Basher]

Chinese senseis??

 

Indeed !!

 

I've noticed a few so called Tai Chi Senseis showing up on the Internet, advertising their Classes or Books.

 

I guess a lot of folks don't know or care about the difference between Chinese / Japanese Arts & terminology.

[somtingwong]

Chinese senseis??

 

Chinese, Korean and Japanese cultures share the same social etiquette. In English, their respective titles of respect are all the same to us westerners. Kevin is neither Chinese nor Japanese. So, I didn't think it mattered if I didn't address him as a Chinese would.

[somtingwong]

I guess a lot of folks don't know or care about the difference between Chinese / Japanese Arts & terminology.

 

What difference? It's all in English anyway. Chow mein is ramen to a an Englishman.

[somtingwong]

I suppose General is the way to go. Easier to stay on topic.

 

and Kevin is just fine we are all just trying to work out how to live well

 

Ok, General it is.

[Esteam'd Punk]

Indeed !!

 

I've noticed a few so called Tai Chi Senseis showing up on the Internet, advertising their Classes or Books.

 

I guess a lot of folks don't know or care about the difference between Chinese / Japanese Arts & terminology.

There, there. We all know you're the terminologist.

 

Fortunately for me, I have both a sifu and a sensei, though I'm told one master is enough; I'm ravenously greedy.

[xor]

Chinese, Korean and Japanese cultures share the same social etiquette. In English, their respective titles of respect are all the same to us westerners. Kevin is neither Chinese nor Japanese. So, I didn't think it mattered if I didn't address him as a Chinese would.

 

I thought it most curious if you are a HK native why would you consciously use a Japanese word for this.

[xor]

I've noticed a few so called Tai Chi Senseis showing up on the Internet, advertising their Classes or Books.

 

Really? That's kind of hilarious...

 

I guess a lot of folks don't know or care about the difference between Chinese / Japanese Arts & terminology.

 

That can be easily excused if they don't have any interest in the arts. I prefer the appropriate terms for multiple reasons.

[somtingwong]

I thought it most curious if you are a HK native why would you consciously use a Japanese word for this.

 

I consciously use English words too for many things. Being a Hong Kong native doesn't mean being a Cantonese.