Third eye? Opening it? Kundalini?

[Jainarayan]

I did a search here, but nothing came up. I thought that was odd. Anywayzz...

 

This bounces off the thread about the spontaneous horse stance. I see a lot of references all over the interwebz about the third eye, opening it, and kundalini. I know what the third eye is, and I understand the concept behind it. But I haven't come across anything describing how one goes about opening it, other than references to meditating on it. Is it that simple?

 

Now, kundalini... I understand it to be the energy that is coiled around the base of the spine like a serpent. Is there anything in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini that has anything to do with kundalini as talked about on Tao Bums?

 

Am I playing with fire with any of this?

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

Kundalini is based on focusing your mind on the tip of the tail bone. It is better to do the small universe meditation to open the third eye - http://springforestqigong.com - get the practice c.d.

 

third eye is in the middle of the brain.

[Jainarayan]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I've read that the third eye is equated with the pineal gland.

 

Btw, the 30 minute or 60 minute cd?

Edited July 24, 2013 by Jainarayan

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I've read that the third eye is equated with the pineal gland.

 

 

Yep - also try out the Taoist Yoga thread - I have blogged on this - http://fulllotusqigong.blogspot.com/2013/06/taoist-yoga-alchemy-and-immortality_14.html

[Jainarayan]

Outstanding, thanks again. One of the things I'm learning is that I'm learning and slowly lifting the veil of unknowledge.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

A relevant post: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30612-requesting-help-in-regards-to-meditation-and-third-eye-opening-specifically/#entry456447.

 

It's very hard to actually open any of the chakras. Generally when people think a chakra is open, all that's happened is the surrounding channels have opened a bit. I mean, see how dramatic a true heart chakra opening is for an example: http://www.meditationexpert.com/comparative-religion/c_Song_of_Songs.html. When a chakra opens, there will be an obvious pumping of chi and it will be very undeniable.

 

Let's consider why these things are closed in the first place, why our kundalini is sleeping. It's because our minds are cloudy. Fetters in the mind creates chi blocks because of the way consciousness and chi mirror each other, as I explain here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/30405-i-think-i-am-narrowing-down-what-i-need-to-know/?view=findpost&p=451886.

 

So, from this we can understand that any efficient approach to chi stuff will actually put the emphasis on - I'm blending Buddhist, Taoist and Hindu terminology a lot here because it is of course nonsectarian - sila (yama-niyama and karma/bhakti yogas), samadhi (raja yoga) and prajna (jnana yoga) more than chi cultivation (hatha yoga). Getting rid of the causes of the blocks, otherwise they must come back.

 

Not that hatha yoga is bad, it's great, but not complete in isolation. And it's absolutely possible to follow the Zen path of only bothering with sila, samadhi and prajna, yet end up with perfect chi, kundalini, third eye etc etc.

 

The purely Zen way is slower then a mixed approach, but you get the all-important mind and behaviour work done to enlightenment without distracting yourself with flashy phenomena. Chi really can't liberate you, after all. Not even kundalini can. We have to sort out our delusions and fetters for liberation.

 

Personally, I take a mainly Zen approach with some Taoism and Yoga mixed in, so I'm doing some work directly on my chi to speed things up, but keeping it in context of the path as a whole.

 

So... that's my view on this matter.

[Jainarayan]

So my goal is śamatha, to clear the mind, then everything will fall into place. Occasionally this happens. For a fleeting moment things seem clear and "understandable". Then it evaporates. I suppose it takes work, which will come from meditation. I practice bhakti yoga; I am trying to find a good hatha yoga class.

[三江源]

I wonder if the search function is up the creek? I'm sure there have been tons of threads on 3rd eye, and certain there are lots on kundalini also.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

A really great book on shamatha is The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace.

 

But in a nutshell, it's important that our concentration comes from deep relaxation, so we aren't straining and tiring ourselves. And if the mind ever seems clear, focus a bit more and subtler excitation and laxity becomes visible.

 

Oh, and anapana sati is said to have an extra chi purifying effect - because of the relation to the air element - while being a very good shamatha practice, without actually trying to do anything with chi.

 

Yeah, cat, I've noticed the search function is a bit iffy.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Apech]

I wonder if the search function is up the creek? I'm sure there have been tons of threads on 3rd eye, and certain there are lots on kundalini also.

 

 

Try using google to search thetoabums kundalini third eye ... like this in fact

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=thetoabums+kundalini+third+eye&oq=thetoabums+kundalini+third+eye&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Apech]

You try it, and dont boss me around like some steward type boss crazed interwebs fiend with your suggestion and 'facts.'

 

 

I am a complete bar-steward ... you try that!

[Jainarayan]

But in a nutshell, it's important that our concentration comes from deep relaxation, so we aren't straining and tiring ourselves. And if the mind ever seems clear, focus a bit more and subtler excitation and laxity becomes visible.

 

Oh, and anapana sati is said to have an extra chi purifying effect - because of the relation to the air element - while being a very good shamatha practice, without actually trying to do anything with chi.

 

I know for myself that when I try to force myself to relax, when I'm consciously trying to do it, is when it doesn't happen.

 

Oh so that's what it's called... anapana sati. A lot of people try to combine that with mantra japa. It doesn't always work... "you cannot serve two masters", to coin a phrase.

[Creation]

Now, kundalini... I understand it to be the energy that is coiled around the base of the spine like a serpent. Is there anything in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini that has anything to do with kundalini as talked about on Tao Bums?

Two words: search function.

 

Off the top of my head, I'd guess that typing in kundalini will return debates about KAP, Kunlun, and AYP. Including any of those terms in your search will narrow things. You can also narrow your search by looking for posts by certian users: Many kundalini active members have posted here. Names like Vajrasattva, Vajrahridaya, Shaktimama, Seth Ananda, Hundun, Konchog Uma, and JJ Semple come to mind.

 

Man, I'm getting nostalgic just writing this.

 

Man, I'm getting nostalgic just thinking about it.

 

P.S.

The best introductory survey of kundalini info on the web, IMO, can be found here:

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kundalini-yoga.html

http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/siddha-mahayoga.html

Edited July 24, 2013 by Creation

[Jainarayan]

Is there any validity to what this guy is saying? Or is he pushing his own views?

 

http://flowingzen.com/1461/the-small-universe/

 

This sounds nice:

 

Edited July 25, 2013 by Jainarayan

[Seeker of Wisdom]

This small universe thing is recognised in many traditions: http://www.meditationexpert.com/zen-buddhism-tao/z_initiating_the_river_chariot_rotation.html.

 

But, this guy does seem a bit too cautious. While there is some risk (and it's unnecessary anyway, as it happens naturally with samadhi) in trying to stimulate this chi circuit, I really think that saying this practice can only safely be done at all after years of other stuff is OTT. Plenty of people have done stuff like that in moderation with no ill effects - it's the people with unbalanced sets of techniques doing long sessions who get in trouble.

 

In http://flowingzen.com/2203/why-sitting-meditation-isnt-for-you/, he says some crazy things about sitting meditation.

 

He says that it's too advanced for beginning cultivators, so they should focus on chi exercises first. Absurd. It's never too early to start training the mind, just because there are no instant impressive results doesn't mean it's too advanced. The measure of meditation working correctly is improvement over time, not being able to enter advanced jhanic states - that's the result of mastery. And just as meditation is made a bit smoother by chi work, chi work is rendered only an auxiliary by meditation, as I've already explained. Saying you need to clear blockages before meditating is like saying you need to shower before bathing.

 

He says a teacher is indispensable - they can save time, but it's still your mind, your practice, and you can understand the practice from careful study, reflection, and consulting more experienced cultivators. Otherwise, what is he saying - a lineage just going back endlessly, where nobody ever figured anything out for themselves? For some paths and techniques a teacher is necessary, for others it's optional.

 

He says you need a healthy body first. I agree that a seriously ill person should take it slow, and the body should be kept in good condition. But I think ordinary health is enough. He cites Bodhidharma teaching monks exercises - those monks really mortified their bodies, the average person can start meditation today.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Seeker of Tao

[Jainarayan]

Thanks. I thought he sounded kind of alarmist, but you guys are way more experienced and know all this.

[Creation]

He says that it's too advanced for beginning cultivators, so they should focus on chi exercises first. Absurd. It's never too early to start training the mind, just because there are no instant impressive results doesn't mean it's too advanced.

You are quite the proselytizer for seated meditation. I must disagree with the idea that it is never the case that someone's needs might be better served by waiting to start sitting meditation. There have been many periods for me when my efforts were better spent on other things.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I can understand his attitude, as a teacher he must have seen people harming themselves, getting ahead of themselves and practising wrongly. He's hoping overconfident people will be a bit more sensible with small universe, a valid concern.

 

He's just taken his own bias against meditation and mixed it with caution on advanced chi practice, leading to another extreme where he thinks you have to do foundation chi practice for years before anything else.

 

His heart seems to be in the right place. Sensible people will take his warnings with a grain of salt, and some of the arrogant will be given some pause for thought, so overall what he's said should be of benefit anyway!

[Seeker of Wisdom]

You are quite the proselytizer for seated meditation. I must disagree with the idea that it is never the case that someone's needs might be better served by waiting to start sitting meditation. There have been many periods for me when my efforts were better spent on other things.

You're probably right, I would certainly advise against it for schizophrenics and such. But unless there's serious mental or physical issues, I would say this particular cultivation technology should be in the top of your toolkit.

[Creation]

You're probably right, I would certainly advise against it for schizophrenics and such. But unless there's serious mental or physical issues, I would say this particular cultivation technology should be in the top of your toolkit.

If a person feels energy coursing through their whole body with every breath, their anapanasmriti will be go deeper faster and thus be more beneficial, and it will be a lot more enjoyable, so they will be more motivated to practice.

 

Standing and moving qigong can get a person to that point.

 

These days, people are disconnected from their bodies and any sense of energy, so sitting alone may not.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

If a person feels energy coursing through their whole body with every breath, their anapanasmriti will be go deeper faster and thus be more beneficial, and it will be a lot more enjoyable, so they will be more motivated to practice.

 

Standing and moving qigong can get a person to that point.

 

These days, people are disconnected from their bodies and any sense of energy, so sitting alone may not.

Which is why I do some chi-related stuff like nadi shodana pranayama, horse stance and mantra to help things along.

 

My understanding is that developing chi helps settle the mind, and is a factor in building the jhana factor of piti.

 

Doing qigong for a while before beginning sitting meditation will mean you're starting meditation at a higher level.

 

But sila-samadhi-prajna is still the core thing and is complete cultivation by itself. Do that, and chi will unblock and build in response to the more central mind and wisdom developments.

 

The point isn't whether a given session was deep, it's whether there was progress in training out laxity and torpor. So it's valid to start with sitting meditation alone, and because the focus is on the mind from the start, if the person doing qigong first starts meditation after 3 years of qigong, after 1 year the person meditating from the start will be at the same depth of meditation - same reduction in laxity and excitation in less time, because that's what they directly went for.

 

They'll just not have much relaxation, stability and focus at the start, but they can look long-term, not cling to expectations, do short sessions regularly and love it after three weeks. That's how it was for me.

 

But why not combine them? Do both qigong and sitting meditation from the start. Start with the mind, and speed up the resulting chi transformation. Best way IMHO.